tough hand at the final table of an nl tourney....

[semaj550 0]

I like calling here because the payouts get a lot bigger in a hurry the higher up you place. Any sort of a raise pretty much commits all your chips and, at the end of the day, AKs is often still a drawing hand. You can afford to call and miss the flop, you can't afford to raise and miss. But like you said, if you're playing for first and don't care where else you finish I agree 100% with playing the AKs for all my chips.

[sanemancrazywrld 0]

what call? no way thats the wrong play this is all-in no question

Against any pocket pair (even the lowly 22), this is a coinflip situation (50% chance of winning, also known as a 50% chance of being knocked out). Why put your entire stack at risk with this hand?This is an ideal place to use the stop and go strategy.If you were the short stack (in this case 4th place), Id agree with this concept, but why risk your 3rd place finish, when seeing a flop gives you all the information you need to push or not?Dev

This is an absolutely awful place to use the stop and go. The raiser very likely has absolute garbage. You'll never have any idea if the flop missed him. If you're calling this bet, and folding if you miss, that's sick. If you're calling this bet, then jamming on any flop that doesn't include an A or K, that's better, but still allowing him to flop top pair with this T7, etc. Also, you're letting him off the hook with AQ/AJs, etc. This hand is completely different from Josh Arieh's hand. Different hand, different chip amounts, different situation. The chances of picking up the pot here with a jam are much, much better than Josh's situation.

[CheckRaise 0]

you guys forgetting that your 4 Handed? chances are your best here or against an underpair. Like doyle said he would rather have AK than KK. Your right that AK is a drawing hand it isnt made, But its the in the top 5 hands in poker so if we are 4 handed im going all in

[Devilkin 0]

Ask Any Profesionnal you want Coinflip situations and even then he could have KQ to which you are a huge favorite why would you call and risk losing all your money when he outplays you on the flop, Make him make a desicion for his chips. Calling here is weak tight play, you do this you may as well play the 0.01-0.02 games online if you dont want to win any real money. 4 handed your not going to see much better of a hand than AKs calling here is a joke

Ok lets look at the advantages to pushing in:1. Your opponent folds - you win the blinds plus his raise. Not bad at all.2. Your opponent calls - think like him. Are you going to call an all in against your hand with KQ? If so, can I play at your table?The only hands you dominate that will call you are the AQ/AJ. Pocket pairs are a coinflip, AA/KK and you are meat.So if you are looking to pick up the blinds and the raise, sure, push in. But be prepared to give your entire stack up if you are called.If the situation is different (ie Im the chip leader, and can cover someone else's all in) by all means go for it!But why risk your 3rd place finish on a coinflip at best?Dev

[CheckRaise 0]

what call? no way thats the wrong play this is all-in no question

Against any pocket pair (even the lowly 22), this is a coinflip situation (50% chance of winning, also known as a 50% chance of being knocked out). Why put your entire stack at risk with this hand?This is an ideal place to use the stop and go strategy.If you were the short stack (in this case 4th place), Id agree with this concept, but why risk your 3rd place finish, when seeing a flop gives you all the information you need to push or not?Dev

This is an absolutely awful place to use the stop and go. The raiser very likely has absolute garbage. You'll never have any idea if the flop missed him. If you're calling this bet, and folding if you miss, that's sick. If you're calling this bet, then jamming on any flop that doesn't include an A or K, that's better, but still allowing him to flop top pair with this T7, etc. Also, you're letting him off the hook with AQ/AJs, etc. This hand is completely different from Josh Arieh's hand. Different hand, different chip amounts, different situation. The chances of picking up the pot here with a jam are much, much better than Josh's situation.

Nice post its exactly what i stated but explained better he will steal a flop from you without a doubt if you dont hit you wasted a big pot by calling you have to Jam if you call on anything on the flop

[r18 0]

I'd raise or fold. Calling is the weakest of the 3 options.

[Crocolyle 0]

AK suited is a hand that does well when you get to see all five cards. If you're up against JJ or QQ...or any pair for that matter...you are in a coin flip situation ONLY if you get to see the hand all the way to the river. if you only call and miss completely against those same hands you'd be hardpressed to call and hope to hit an ace or king to bust the guy. In a regular cash game I would probably just call rather than risk all my money on a coin flip, but in a tournament final table situation such as this I would move in in a heartbeat to apply the pressure. So the guy got extremely lucky, it happens, but I'd take AKs against AQos all in anytime, anyday.

[sanemancrazywrld 0]

Ask Any Profesionnal you want Coinflip situations and even then he could have KQ to which you are a huge favorite why would you call and risk losing all your money when he outplays you on the flop, Make him make a desicion for his chips. Calling here is weak tight play, you do this you may as well play the 0.01-0.02 games online if you dont want to win any real money. 4 handed your not going to see much better of a hand than AKs calling here is a joke

Ok lets look at the advantages to pushing in:1. Your opponent folds - you win the blinds plus his raise. Not bad at all.2. Your opponent calls - think like him. Are you going to call an all in against your hand with KQ? If so, can I play at your table?The only hands you dominate that will call you are the AQ/AJ. Pocket pairs are a coinflip, AA/KK and you are meat.So if you are looking to pick up the blinds and the raise, sure, push in. But be prepared to give your entire stack up if you are called.If the situation is different (ie Im the chip leader, and can cover someone else's all in) by all means go for it!But why risk your 3rd place finish on a coinflip at best?Dev

Since he got his money in as a 3-1 favourite, I think we can throw out the "coinflip at best" comment.

[semaj550 0]

Ask Any Profesionnal you want Coinflip situations and even then he could have KQ to which you are a huge favorite why would you call and risk losing all your money when he outplays you on the flop, Make him make a desicion for his chips. Calling here is weak tight play, you do this you may as well play the 0.01-0.02 games online if you dont want to win any real money. 4 handed your not going to see much better of a hand than AKs calling here is a joke

Ok lets look at the advantages to pushing in:1. Your opponent folds - you win the blinds plus his raise. Not bad at all.2. Your opponent calls - think like him. Are you going to call an all in against your hand with KQ? If so, can I play at your table?The only hands you dominate that will call you are the AQ/AJ. Pocket pairs are a coinflip, AA/KK and you are meat.So if you are looking to pick up the blinds and the raise, sure, push in. But be prepared to give your entire stack up if you are called.If the situation is different (ie Im the chip leader, and can cover someone else's all in) by all means go for it!But why risk your 3rd place finish on a coinflip at best?Dev

Since he got his money in as a 3-1 favourite, I think we can throw out the "coinflip at best" comment.

You don't know that until the cards are turned over though and the cards don't get turned over until you're all in.

[CheckRaise 0]

YOUR 4 HANDED THIS ISNT A FULL TABLE ITS A SMALL PROBABILTY THAT HAS AA OR KK YOUR HAND IS LIKELY GOOD. YOU GUYS ARE UNDEREVALUATING THE VALUE OF AK HERE I CAN SAY WITH CONFIDENCE THAT THERE IS NOT ONE PRO WHO CALLS HERE THEY ARE ALL IN

[sanemancrazywrld 0]

Since he got his money in as a 3-1 favourite, I think we can throw out the "coinflip at best"  comment.

You don't know that until the cards are turned over though and the cards don't get turned over until you're all in.

You said coinflip at best. The money went in, he was a 3-1 favourite. We knew that was a possibility before, we know it for certain now. The money went in, and it wasn't a coin flip. Hence "coinflip at best" is flat out wrong. Res ipsa loquitor.

[sloshr 0]

I think all-in is clear here. Why does everyone think the raiser has a hand here? He made a reasonable open-raise in a 4-handed game, he could have anything. If you call, you are letting Q9 get a free flop, and possibly take your pot away on a rag flop. You most likely have the best hand, so make him pay or give up.

[Devilkin 0]

This is an absolutely awful place to use the stop and go. The raiser very likely has absolute garbage. You'll never have any idea if the flop missed him. If you're calling this bet, and folding if you miss, that's sick. If you're calling this bet, then jamming on any flop that doesn't include an A or K, that's better, but still allowing him to flop top pair with this T7, etc. Also, you're letting him off the hook with AQ/AJs, etc. This hand is completely different from Josh Arieh's hand. Different hand, different chip amounts, different situation. The chances of picking up the pot here with a jam are much, much better than Josh's situation.

But don't you see - if you go all in he gets exactly what he wants - all five cards!!!!!If he is going to hit top pair (assuming you don't), he is still going to hit top pair regardless of whether you go all in and he calls, or you call and go all in post flop. Absolutely no difference at all.The key difference here is after the flop, if he doesn't hit anything (which using probability, is much much more frequent), he has the opportunity to fold. Your fold equity is much higher in this case than preflop.Lets use the example you gave above - caller has T7s against my AKs.Flop comes Q62 rainbow - completely misses both of us. You go all in. He is going to call? No way.The only way he is in this hand is if he hits a flush draw or top pair. And if you have played thousands of hands, you know the odds of missing on the flop are much much greater than hitting the flop.Give your opponent a chance to fold.

[Devilkin 0]

Since he got his money in as a 3-1 favourite, I think we can throw out the "coinflip at best" comment.

This comment is made assuming you know for a fact what your opponents cards are. Key point is did you put him on AQ preflop? A read of your opponents style is important in this decision. My read of a totally unknown player is to put him on a low pocket pair, unless his playstyle has shown otherwise.If he is a very loose player (raises with almost any above average hand), Ill support the all in against him - blind stealing is a key part of a later tournament strategy. If this is a tight player, Im much more inclined to call and see a flop.Dev

[Swift_Psycho 1]

This is an absolutely awful place to use the stop and go. The raiser very likely has absolute garbage. You'll never have any idea if the flop missed him. If you're calling this bet, and folding if you miss, that's sick.I don't even know who wrote this as I just stole the above quote from two posts above me. But, I have to ask. Do you even know what a stop and go is?

[Devilkin 0]

This is an absolutely awful place to use the stop and go. The raiser very likely has absolute garbage. You'll never have any idea if the flop missed him. If you're calling this bet, and folding if you miss, that's sick.

At what point did I say fold????I said call, then post flop all in (thats what a stop and go is).It gives your opponent a chance to fold.Nuff said.

[Devilkin 0]

I'd raise or fold.   Calling is the weakest of the 3 options.

You can't seriously say that folding is a better play than calling? :roll: Folding is the absolute weakest thing you can do in this situation - hands down.The only debate here is whether to call/raise or all in.Dev

[CheckRaise 0]

But don't you see - if you go all in he gets exactly what he wants - all five cards!!!!!

I only read this part of your Quote i wish this site had an ingnore poster button you are a Fish for saying that i ban you from this thread

[Devilkin 0]

I only read this part of your Quote i wish this site had an ingnore poster button you are a Fish for saying that i ban you from this thread

Great to see you adding value to the posting . . . .Anything worthwhile saying (thats not all in caps that is?)

[Swift_Psycho 1]

This is an absolutely awful place to use the stop and go. The raiser very likely has absolute garbage. You'll never have any idea if the flop missed him. If you're calling this bet, and folding if you miss, that's sick.

At what point did I say fold????I said call, then post flop all in (thats what a stop and go is).It gives your opponent a chance to fold.Nuff said.

Was it you who said the quote? It isn't labelled from where I took it. The last sentence of the quote is what gets me. Whoever said the quote says that a stop and go is horrible, but then they say that calling and then folding on a blank flop would be sick. If he actually knew what a stop and go was, folding would not have even been mentioned.

[sanemancrazywrld 0]

My read of a totally unknown player is to put him on a low pocket pair' date=' unless his playstyle has shown otherwise.[/quote']Feel free to do that, but that's a bizzaro read in a 4 handed game when the button raises.

[Devilkin 0]

Obviously a number of us have different playing styles.I've never liked the 'all in' option unless1. Im short stacked2. I'm 99% sure I have the best hand3. I'm 99% sure my opponent will fold if I do Im not saying anyone is wrong by going all in. Im just saying I wouldn't and lets let the OP make his own decision as to what is right for his playing style.Dev

[sanemancrazywrld 0]

I'd raise or fold. Calling is the weakest of the 3 options.

You can't seriously say that folding is a better play than calling? :roll: Folding is the absolute weakest thing you can do in this situation - hands down.The only debate here is whether to call/raise or all in.Dev

Agreed.

[Devilkin 0]

Feel free to do that, but that's a bizzaro read in a 4 handed game when the button raises.

Ill respect your opinion. I disagree with it, but I respect thats the way you play.Dev

[sanemancrazywrld 0]

This is an absolutely awful place to use the stop and go. The raiser very likely has absolute garbage. You'll never have any idea if the flop missed him. If you're calling this bet, and folding if you miss, that's sick.I don't even know who wrote this as I just stole the above quote from two posts above me. But, I have to ask. Do you even know what a stop and go is?

The next line of the quote being:If you're calling this bet, then jamming on any flop that doesn't include an A or K, that's better, but still allowing him to flop top pair with this T7, etc. Also, you're letting him off the hook with AQ/AJs, etc. Yes, I know what a stop and go is.