2nd Nut Flush, Just Call River

[pokerplayer24 0]

Villain is a tag who seems on the passive side. Honestly I was just like wtf on the river.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero ($654.05)UTG ($711)MP ($789.55)CO ($1049.45)Button ($543)SB ($103.85)Preflop: Hero is BB with K , 5 . UTG raises to $12, MP calls $12, CO calls $12, Button calls $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $6.Flop: ($63) 9 , 7 , 3 (5 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO checks, Button checks.Turn: ($63) A (5 players)Hero bets $56, UTG calls $56, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds.River: ($175) Q (2 players)Hero bets $154, UTG raises to $308, Hero calls $154.Final Pot: $791

[1tripz1 0]

Your the hero right? UTG could have anything here really, my point is, why does the hero not re raise all in on the river?

[meservery 0]

Is your plan to check raise on the flop?Don't know about the river. I guess if you shove his re-raise on the river you're only getting called if your beat. Unless he played AA really bad and thinks his set is good...

[Zach6668 513]

He played it a lot like the nut flush.I like the river call, especially on your read that he is passive.

[bdc30 0]

What's with the Villain and his stupid min-raises. I shovel this EDIT - RIVER WHEN HE MIN-RAISES, hoping he has AQ or AA or some garbage that he thinks is good. If he flips over AQ I punch my monitor.

[No_Neck 0]

What's with the Villain and his stupid min-raises. I shovel this flop, hoping he has AQ or AA or some garbage that he thinks is good. If he flips over AQ I punch my monitor.

you open push on the flop? Give up value much??

[Zach6668 513]

you open push on the flop? Give up value much??

Smash strat.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Villain is a tag who seems on the passive side. Honestly I was just like wtf on the river.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero ($654.05)UTG ($711)MP ($789.55)CO ($1049.45)Button ($543)SB ($103.85)Preflop: Hero is BB with K , 5 . UTG raises to $12, MP calls $12, CO calls $12, Button calls $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $6.Flop: ($63) 9 , 7 , 3 (5 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO checks, Button checks.Turn: ($63) A (5 players)Hero bets $56, UTG calls $56, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds.River: ($175) Q (2 players)Hero bets $154, UTG raises to $308, Hero calls $154.Final Pot: $791

Meh. I need a read to decide. If villain is really rocky, i probably call.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Meh. I need a read to decide. If villain is really rocky, i probably call.

I agree with this here. I'm getting it all in unless he is REALLY rocky or REALLY passive and this raise just can't be made with anything but the nuts.I mean, c'mon. He could have Q J and is gonna play it the exact same way. If the herso pushes, he's getting called by any flush and potentially a few other hands, since if I'm correct, his all-in raise will be for $278 more into a pot of $791, so the villain will be getting 2.8-1 to make the call of the all in on the river.If the stacks were a lot deeper, I'd consider calling, but the worse case is you lose an extra $278, but I think it's +EV by a large margin to be pushing here since the villain is definitely calling with a flush and maybe a set as well.

[psujohn 0]

It could easily be a smaller flush but if villain is TAG and raised PF UTG what smaller flush could he have? QcJc or JcTc. Unless he'll raise smaller suited connectors from EP. I think something like AcQ is more likely. I probably just call the river out of confusion and fear of the nut flush but think it's probably more correct to push it.

[simo_8ball 0]

I agree with just calling the minraise. If you are ahead of his range it isn't by much, and you could far more easily be crushed by it. I like your bet sizes on turn and river.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I agree with just calling the minraise. If you are ahead of his range it isn't by much, and you could far more easily be crushed by it. I like your bet sizes on turn and river.

We have the 2nd nuts people! His "range" doesn't matter unless it's A X We don't have a lot behind. This isn't like the board has 4 clubs on it and we're holding the one card 2nd nut flush. He either has the nut flush or he doesn't. I think you're playing scared poker if you're not pushing in your last ~$300 here. If he turns over the nut flush, well then it was a cooler. When he turns over the J high flush, we're gonna feel like idiots.Barring a really solid read, I think not pushing back here is a terrible mistake.

[Zach6668 513]

I dunno AK... I think you've proven time and time again that you don't really understand no limit.:DI stand by my weak tight play!

[simo_8ball 0]

We have the 2nd nuts people! His "range" doesn't matter unless it's A X

His range is the only deciding factor in this. Also bear in mind that he will fold some lower flushes or oddly played sets to a shove and I think we get a higher EV from calling. He is also far more likely to slowplay the nut flush than (say) JcTc.

[bdc30 0]

you open push on the flop? Give up value much??

hahaa, no, i mis-typed that. I meant river, after he pulls the min-raise. Sorry

[Acid_Knight 2]

His range is the only deciding factor in this. Also bear in mind that he will fold some lower flushes or oddly played sets to a shove and I think we get a higher EV from calling. He is also far more likely to slowplay the nut flush than (say) JcTc.

He folds a flush? Are you out of your mind?The reason that I'm so strongly advocating pushing is becuase he's gonna be getting 2.8-1 and will call with all sorts of hands. I'm not saying that he's gonna call with 2 pair or a set here regularly, but he might do it a few times. Getting 2.8-1, there is absolutely no way that any player will fold a flush here.

[simo_8ball 0]

He folds a flush? Are you out of your mind?The reason that I'm so strongly advocating pushing is becuase he's gonna be getting 2.8-1 and will call with all sorts of hands. I'm not saying that he's gonna call with 2 pair or a set here regularly, but he might do it a few times. Getting 2.8-1, there is absolutely no way that any player will fold a flush here.

I personally don't think he can have a very small flush here, so it doesn't really factor in, but I do think that a hand like 6c4c might fold the river if we reraise allin. It beats nothing.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I personally don't think he can have a very small flush here, so it doesn't really factor in, but I do think that a hand like 6c4c might fold the river if we reraise allin. It beats nothing.

I can't see a flush ever folding here. If they are, then they are like super weak-tight and shouldn't be playing poker.

[CoranMoran 0]

I can't see a flush ever folding here. If they are, then they are like super weak-tight and shouldn't be playing poker.

Let's give Villain the benefit of the doubt and assume he is a competent player.If this is the case, then he recognizes what the pot odds of a river push will be before he makes his minimum raise.So why did he make this raise instead of just going all in himself?There's only a couple of choices.1) He is wanting to induce an all in push from us so he can win more2) He wanted to see if we would push all in so he can get away for cheaperSo would he really make play 1 with a small Flush?Seems like a pretty bad play.If Villain is not a competent player, I push all in.If he is, then I give it a lot more thought and hesitation.--CM

[Acid_Knight 2]

There's only a couple of choices.1) He is wanting to induce an all in push from us so he can win more2) He wanted to see if we would push all in so he can get away for cheaper

The most likely one is that he has a hand that he wants to make sure he gets paid off with and feels that a minimum raise is guaranteed to get paid off, where if he pushes, he might scare you away. After all, if he pushes, that's a pretty big raise back to you.

[pokerplayer24 0]

My reasoning for just calling the river was that I felt a min raise was either A) the nuts or B ) a hand like AQ trying to get a little value out of a lower 2 pair but likely folding to a push. I didnt think he could have a lower flush because he would most likely bet the flop with so many people fearing the Ac. In the end he had J8c and I was kind of upset with myself.

[mtdesmoines 3]

My reasoning for just calling the river was that I felt a min raise was either A) the nuts or B ) a hand like AQ trying to get a little value out of a lower 2 pair but likely folding to a push. I didnt think he could have a lower flush because he would most likely bet the flop with so many people fearing the Ac. In the end he had J8c and I was kind of upset with myself.

I think, like I said, absent a very tight read, I just go ahead and put all the chips in. It's not like it's a shitload more in comparison to the pot anyway.