5 Card Draw At Its Finest

[thelivewire 0]

PokerStars Game #9067876664: 5 Card Draw Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/03/24 - 16:24:04 (ET)Table 'Geminid III' 6-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: Mikasaball ($35.05 in chips) Seat 3: thelivewire ($25.65 in chips) Seat 4: keg555 ($11.95 in chips) Seat 5: YokeDogg ($30 in chips) Seat 6: Cameron1990 ($20.40 in chips) keg555: posts small blind $0.25YokeDogg: posts big blind $0.50*** DEALING HANDS ***Dealt to thelivewire [9h Qh 3s Jh Kh]Cameron1990: raises $0.50 to $1Mikasaball: folds thelivewire: calls $1keg555: folds YokeDogg: folds Cameron1990: stands pat thelivewire: discards 1 card [3s]Dealt to thelivewire [9h Qh Jh Kh] [Th]Cameron1990: bets $2thelivewire: raises $4 to $6Cameron1990: calls $4*** SHOW DOWN ***thelivewire: shows [9h Qh Th Jh Kh] (a straight flush, Nine to King)Cameron1990: mucks hand thelivewire collected $14.05 from potthelivewire said, "snapalicious"Mikasaball said, "vnh"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $14.75 | Rake $0.70 Seat 1: Mikasaball folded before the Draw (didn't bet)Seat 3: thelivewire (button) showed [9h Qh Th Jh Kh] and won ($14.05) with a straight flush, Nine to KingSeat 4: keg555 (small blind) folded before the DrawSeat 5: YokeDogg (big blind) folded before the DrawSeat 6: Cameron1990 mucked [4c 3c Ac Kc 7c]I love the absolute variance of five card draw

[sholden 0]

You had two outs...Quite the "just call" on the river there by the other guy. AK flush and he doesn't reraise? With one card drawn I'd suspect a straight or a lower flush to be a more common holding than a better flush or boat, quads, straight flush - but I don't play that game enough to know...Then again I guess by standing pat he's told you he has at least a straight so maybe your raise indicates he is beat?

[GrinderMJ 0]

Is just calling preflop standard there with your hand?

[GWCGWC 83]

Is just calling preflop standard there with your hand?

cash game, yesLOLZ at you not stacking him off. NH though

[timwakefield 68]

Well played by your opponent, I guess he thought you drew 1 to 2 pr and improved. IMO calling a raise there with a gutshot SF draw is marginal. I think raise or fold is a better play.

[No_Neck 0]

Well played by your opponent, I guess he thought you drew 1 to 2 pr and improved. IMO calling a raise there with a gutshot SF draw is marginal. I think raise or fold is a better play.

Stop pretending you know what you are talking about..

[dingas 0]

I don't really like the pre-draw call. I think a re-raise is better if you are going to play.

[JaysForLife 0]

Well played by your opponent, I guess he thought you drew 1 to 2 pr and improved. IMO calling a raise there with a gutshot SF draw is marginal. I think raise or fold is a better play.

Fold a SF draw to a min raise? How could this even be an option?

[GWCGWC 83]

Well played by your opponent, I guess he thought you drew 1 to 2 pr and improved. IMO calling a raise there with a gutshot SF draw is marginal. I think raise or fold is a better play.

umm, no. It's a clear call.

I don't really like the pre-draw call. I think a re-raise is better if you are going to play.

nah, you really shouldn't re-raise/fold here.

Fold a SF draw to a min raise? How could this even be an option?

it's not really an option

[No_Neck 0]

umm, no. It's a clear call.nah, you really shouldn't re-raise/fold here. it's not really an option

Stop educating the fish.... yeah so I am really bored at work sue me.

[MyPlayIsRAB 0]

lol i cant believe that guy dint shove his A hi flush. on a side note, a couple weeks ago in pl5cd i lost with quad kings to a straight flush, i was some mad

[GWCGWC 83]

Stop educating the fish.... yeah so I am really bored at work sue me.

godamnamentsyea, im bored at work too and I've done way to many Sudoku puzzles today.

lol i cant believe that guy dint shove his A hi flush. on a side note, a couple weeks ago in pl5cd i lost with quad kings to a straight flush, i was some mad

At least you lost in style.

[timwakefield 68]

umm, no. It's a clear call.

What kind of odds is he getting drawing 1 card? Let's assume that a pair of kings won't win the hand for him, so he is drawing to 12 outs once. How often can he bluff after the draw and win? How much money can he win when he hits his draw? I really don't think it's an insta-call. If I remember my Mike Caro, flush draws that you call with are either ace-high or open ended straight flushes.

[gatortom64 1]

DAMMIT!!! I tripped on my mouse cord & fell into Strat!!!!! Thanks for the good advice all.

[SpiderGuard 0]

What kind of odds is he getting drawing 1 card? Let's assume that a pair of kings won't win the hand for him, so he is drawing to 12 outs once. How often can he bluff after the draw and win? How much money can he win when he hits his draw? I really don't think it's an insta-call. If I remember my Mike Caro, flush draws that you call with are either ace-high or open ended straight flushes.

He has three tens for a straight, so 15 outs.

[timwakefield 68]

He has three tens for a straight, so 15 outs.

And 12 hearts for a flush? No he has 9 hearts for a flush and 3 non-heart tens. So 12 outs.

[GWCGWC 83]

What kind of odds is he getting drawing 1 card? Let's assume that a pair of kings won't win the hand for him, so he is drawing to 12 outs once. How often can he bluff after the draw and win? How much money can he win when he hits his draw? I really don't think it's an insta-call. If I remember my Mike Caro, flush draws that you call with are either ace-high or open ended straight flushes.

Disclaimer: I'm rambling here and I would proof read this for content but I'm off work now and driving to Albuquerque to play some live pookah! GL to everyone playing this weekend.It's clearly not a raising hand and you said you'd raise or fold. I'm not 100% against the fold if this were limit or if you have a solid read on the player. Small raises happen a lot in PL poker to build the pot for later streets so that's not giving us much info.You can't define someones hand before the draw in this game which you already know so we have no idea where we stand. If the villian drew 4 then he's a maniac and it's an easy call. If the villian drew 3 then he's a holdem player and has AA or KK, easy call.If the villian drew 2 then we assume he has trips and it's an easy call.If the villian drew 1 then we assume he has 2 pair, st8 draw, flush draw or quads. again, easy call.If the villian stands pat like he did, he could be as weak as a wheel or as strong as a royal flush. This isn't really helpful except it lets us choose how to play after the draw. If we improve to the A high flush, then we may raise to find out where he's at. I don't recommend raising the pot since this can put us to a tough decision if he r/r the pot. The K high flush or just a str8, it's just a call since he stood pat. If we just have one pair vs his standing pat, obv fold. I think the implied odds make up for the lack of outs and we may only have one out if he's made quads or any FH. The thing about calling his pre-draw raise on the come is that we have very very little risk and can put ourselves in position to win a big pot. If you don't draw 1 to a K high flush to a very small pre-draw raise, you're losing money in PL5D. IMHOas always this is read dependant

[timwakefield 68]

I think the implied odds make up for the lack of outs and we may only have one out if he's made quads or any FH. The thing about calling his pre-draw raise on the come is that we have very very little risk and can put ourselves in position to win a big pot. If you don't draw 1 to a K high flush to a very small pre-draw raise, you're losing money in PL5D. IMHOas always this is read dependant

True that you might be in position to win a big pot, but you're also not closing the action here before the draw. Like you said it's read dependent, but if your opponent is any good and sees you draw 1 after calling a min-raise and then raise big after the draw he is gonna put you on a made flush or a full house, and will maybe once in awhile call to stop a bluff. As it played of course villain had a pat ace-high flush and didn't even re-raise, so against this opponent the implied odds are no good.edit: And yes I know that my last sentence there is results-oriented, I'm just saying that I think there is nothing wrong with folding this hand.

[thelivewire 0]

First, I play this strictly for the enjoyment and play very patient. There is a ton of bluffing that goes on, which is the best part of the game. He didn't get stacked because if you play for more than ten minutes, you see quite a few boats....on the other hand, you have a lot of clowns who would push there with trip queens. I didn't raise because I didn't want a reraise and that joker was playing a little tight. He would've reraised with a made hand.My only regret was "snapalicious"........lol, my daughter has been saying that all day.

[Zach6668 513]

Did you guys know that we now have a DRAW Strategy section?

[sixhands 0]

Did you guys know that we now have a DRAW Strategy section?

Nice to see that you are earning your keep as a strat mod