small pocket pairs....

[Arcacio 0]

Lately i have found myself fighting with these dumb things more and more. It seems that when it comes down to it. I can't find a medium between raising pre-flop to see if i can lower the amount of people i'm battling. Maybe fight it out heads up and see if i can make a play. Or just call to see if i catch a set. these things have plagued me lately and its really starting to bother me. I guess sometimes they are easy to get away from if i'm out of postition and its been raised a few times. But i'd say a good chuck of the time i'm fighting with myself on these things and i can't seem to find a decent solution. Thoughts?Chris

[HelioCentric 0]

typically in cash games, I simply try and see a flop cheap with a small PP and see if i can hit a set or pick up a str8 draw, if not, no biggie, and fold.In a tournament, you can actually push more with small PP (i think). Especially with a chip lead, or when you sense weakness post flop. Overall, I guess try not to get too much money involved preflop unless you are the aggressor, and play post flop as hit or miss. DONT CHASE A SET!

[Petoria 0]

Are you talking about NL or limit?In NL:I think it is dependent on position. Personally, I'll throw away small PP UTG, they just get me into too much trouble. If it gets folded around to me in MP, I'll usually come in for a raise, and follow it up with a bet on the flop. Late position folded around is a raising situation also. If there are callers in front of me in MP, i'll usually call also. Same thing in late position. There's an argument that says that you should raise from late position with a small PP if there are callers in front of you. Now this isn't a horrible play, but you're going to have to make a decently sizable raise because you want to take it down right there. I don't like putting a lot of chips at risk when there are people already in, but sometimes it's worth it.In limit:Fold low PP from early position or if the table is passive, you can call. If it is really tight, you raise. In limit, playing low PP is more dependent on your table. Once you've got a read on your table, play accordingly.

[Arcacio 0]

i normally play cash NL. Soemtimes tounaments. But my questions refers mostly to cashNL games as thats where i feel i run into this situation the most.

[allinbluff35 0]

player dependant I guess, but I'll call any PP PF if its 1/20 of my stack or less.

[2AceSuited 0]

Early position in a NL cash game I'll drop anything lower than 66 unless the game is short-handed.

[HelioCentric 0]

pretty much, in NL cash games, 1/2oth of my stack or less, I'm there. You hit a set on the flop I believe 1 outta 8 times ???? Assuming your set holds up more than 40% of the time ( which i imagine it must... any stats anyone??), you will be a winner in the long run.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

pretty much, in NL cash games, 1/2oth of my stack or less, I'm there. You hit a set on the flop I believe 1 outta 8 times ???? Assuming your set holds up more than 40% of the time ( which i imagine it must... any stats anyone??), you will be a winner in the long run.

I think it's an 8-1 shot, so that would be 1 out of 9, not 1 out of 8. Don't quote me though. Not that big a deal, they're pretty darn close anyway.

[PhishForChips 0]

How about this one: I flopped a set of 2's the other day and the middle position made it $15 om the flop with a flop of:2hearts 9spades JdiamondsI put him on a high pocket pair trying to trap a 2 pair or perhaps someone with top pair. I re-raised him and he put me all in.He flopped a set of 9's. Doh!Crippled me.What are the odds of 2 people flopping a set like that? GRRRR

[HelioCentric 0]

I won't sweat my set losing to a higher set, just like I won't sweat my KK running into AA. If it happens, tip you hat, and move on. Too hard to second guess things like that.

[karasz 0]

ill see a flop no raise though. assuming small is 2-5s if i miss the flop im out. 6-9s i raise min with. 10-As raise BIG. i actually play those like that all the time. then its all based on reads post flop.

[PhishForChips 0]

ill see a flop no raise though. assuming small is 2-5s if i miss the flop im out. 6-9s i raise min with. 10-As raise BIG. i actually play those like that all the time. then its all based on reads post flop.

I don't play pocket 10's big. They are beat way too often when pain hits the flop. And far too often someone calling a big raise will have an A/or K in the hole.

[Smasharoo 0]

I don't play pocket 10's big. They are beat way too often when pain hits the flop. And far too often someone calling a big raise will have an A/or K in the hole.Well, that's about the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum. You don't play them agressively, not because someone might have an overpair, but because someone might call with one overcard and you'll be way ahead.Nice sound logic. Must work well in the imaginary games I'm thinking. Not so much in real ones.

[woutoR 0]

pocketpairs are moneymakers!! especially in a multipot when they hit a set

[AC BillP 0]

PP's in NL and Limit are 2 different animals IMHO. IN limit, I'm not afraid to play just about and PP in any position if there is a large number of callers. Basically you are trying to flop a set, and sometimes you are even correct to call the 23:1 draw for the turn on a capped pot, if they just bet it one time or something. Yes occasionally there will be a straight or a flush out there but this is more than made up for by the times the board pairs on occasion but they keep firing at you.Some people don't play 5's or less in early position ( because of the paired board full over full situation), it's probably OK not to as these hands mostly just add to you fluxuation instead of profit IMO.Regardless, I don't see why you are so worried about getting players out. Since the odds are against a set 7:1, the more callers the merrier!! The odds of set over set ON THE FLOP are very long, so you almost always flop the current nut with a set anyway.

[NormanHaupt 0]

ill see a flop no raise though. assuming small is 2-5s if i miss the flop im out. 6-9s i raise min with. 10-As raise BIG. i actually play those like that all the time. then its all based on reads post flop.

I don't play pocket 10's big. They are beat way too often when pain hits the flop. And far too often someone calling a big raise will have an A/or K in the hole.

Damn, I knew I was doing something wrong with QQ. So i've gotta hit a set or else fold because someone else might have an A or K that will pair up before the hand is over?! shit! Thats what I've been doing wrong.Moron.Play pocket pairs for what they're worth on the flop. If you've got 55 and an A hits, you're toast, fold. If you've got 99 and 678 hits, fold if you don't like money.

[Arcacio 0]

Thaks for all the replies and suggestions. Same thing happened last night. i was in NL cash game. i was up about 480.00 or so and was delt pocket 2's out of position again. i called. there was a weak raise, which judging by the player( i play with him often) seemed like he was strong. I called it though and hit the set on the flop. He was pissed when he rolled over his pocket kings.i still got these types of hands A LOT last night. small pocket pairs.... good grief.

[semaj550 0]

In my experience pocket T's and J's are two of the most overplayed hands. My saying is that if you don't think of a J like a face card you'll play them correctly. T's and J's aren't a whole lot better than 8's or 9's for a few reasons: I feel the main of which is that even if you have an overpair on the flop you tend to win small pots or lose big ones. With T's and J's you're really still looking to hit a set on the flop with someone pairing an overcard or two. I will play them slightly more agressively that smaller pairs (raising from early-middle position and possibly reraising from the cutoff or button if the situation seems to warrant it) but all in all I tend to think of them like 8's or 9's unless I have good reason to think otherwise. Low PP (7's or lower) are among my least favorite hands, especially in NL. If you don't flop a set you've usually wasted any money you put into the pot. They're a good bet if you're getting odds to draw to that set but how often do you get 8:1 on your preflop bet in NL? I routinely throw these hands away from early postion, put a minimum raise 1st in from late-middle or late position and limp/fold 2nd or 3rd in depending on the siutation. Big PP are where a lot of your money is at in NL. AA, KK and QQ warrant strong play preflop as you're far more likely to win heads up (or better yet take down a couple raises without going to a flop). It's always good to bet out the pikers and try to feel for a higher pair but your goal should be getting as many players out as you can. Sometimes you may end up taking down nothing but the blinds but I'd rather that than to underplay my big PP and have some catch 2 pair on a low flop.

[PhishForChips 0]

In my experience pocket T's and J's are two of the most overplayed hands. My saying is that if you don't think of a J like a face card you'll play them correctly. T's and J's aren't a whole lot better than 8's or 9's for a few reasons: I feel the main of which is that even if you have an overpair on the flop you tend to win small pots or lose big ones. With T's and J's you're really still looking to hit a set on the flop with someone pairing an overcard or two. I will play them slightly more agressively that smaller pairs (raising from early-middle position and possibly reraising from the cutoff or button if the situation seems to warrant it) but all in all I tend to think of them like 8's or 9's unless I have good reason to think otherwise. Low PP (7's or lower) are among my least favorite hands, especially in NL. If you don't flop a set you've usually wasted any money you put into the pot. They're a good bet if you're getting odds to draw to that set but how often do you get 8:1 on your preflop bet in NL? I routinely throw these hands away from early postion, put a minimum raise 1st in from late-middle or late position and limp/fold 2nd or 3rd in depending on the siutation. Big PP are where a lot of your money is at in NL. AA, KK and QQ warrant strong play preflop as you're far more likely to win heads up (or better yet take down a couple raises without going to a flop). It's always good to bet out the pikers and try to feel for a higher pair but your goal should be getting as many players out as you can. Sometimes you may end up taking down nothing but the blinds but I'd rather that than to underplay my big PP and have some catch 2 pair on a low flop.

This was my point as well (Which smash had to attack with glee). Pocket 10's play much differently in a NL cash game than say a QQ (Another remark foolishly assumed I would play a QQ the same way and be as cautious). People overplay 10/10 in NL, and when a K or A hit a flop as frequently as they do, its just a tougher hand to play aggressively with. As a matter of fact, I would put JJ and QQ only slightly above pocket 10's as hands to play aggressively. I can't tell you how many times those hands get crushed in NL cash games when the holder of that hand raised aggressively and was called by an A/Q or A/J or K/Q and got crushed.