aussiedonk 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Even if you miraculously have the best hand here, your equity is pretty poor as villain has 6 outs that counterfeit your hand. I fold pyreflop.you are right. I didn't think about that when I called - I just thought I was ahead a lot of the time and quickly called. He had already shown down 4 or 5 overbet bluffs, and tended to bet 1/2 pot when he had the goods. In hindsight I agree I should have folded the turn. I dunno about folding pre - the guy was a huge monkey and his range pre-flop was literally any 2.TB17 time will tell re my stay at 2/4. I don't have a large sample size but am a pretty solid winner to date and find the game very beatable. Obviously this hand is completely non-standard and I agree that if I played it this way every time I would be burning $$$. Anyway it is nice to talk about specific hands with ppl - I don't do it often. NExt time I will try to post a hand with a closer decision, that doesnt make me look like such a massive spewbox. Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 today was a little bumpy : ( but i'm very happy to finish off strongfav. hand of the day:After he checks back turn, I figured his most likely holding was a set. Timebank check/shove ftwPoker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$104 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $3760.05Button: $1588Hero: $1051BB: $1020.75Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is SB with J 9 2 folds, Hero raises to $30, BB calls.Flop: 6 T 8 ($60, 2 players)Hero bets $45, BB raises to $130, Hero calls.Turn: 7 ($320, 2 players)Hero checks, BB checks.River: A ($320, 2 players)Hero checks, BB bets $200, Hero raises all-in $891, BB calls all-in $660.75.Uncalled bets: $30.25 returned to Hero. Results:Final pot: $2041.5Hero showed Jd 9dBB mucks 6d 6hfunniest/most retarded hand of the day imoPoker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$106 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1610.25UTG+1: $1399Hero: $1179.50Button: $1312.25SB: $1879BB: $1075Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 8 J UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises to $40, 2 folds, BB raises to $160, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.Flop: J 8 A ($485, 3 players)BB bets $210, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises all-in $1019.5, BB calls all-in $705.Uncalled bets: $104.5 returned to Hero. Turn: T ($2315, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2315)River: T ($2315, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2315)Results:Final pot: $2315BB showed Ah QsHero mucks 8c Jcmost interesting hand of the dayPoker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$106 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1852UTG+1: $1000CO: $3354.50Button: $1136.75Hero: $1052BB: $1134.25Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with A 7 2 folds, CO raises to $30, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.Flop: 7 8 A ($90, 3 players)Hero bets $60, BB folds, CO raises to $180, Hero raises to $440, CO raises all-in $3324.5, Hero calls all-in $582.Uncalled bets: $2302.5 returned to CO.Turn: K ($2134, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2134)River: 2 ($2134, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2134)Results:Final pot: $2134CO showed Ah QhHero showed Ad 7ddid u know I was actually an underdog on the flop? : (Weirdest hand of the day imoPoker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$105 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1068.50CO: $2064.75Hero: $1109SB: $318BB: $1134.25BB: $985Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 7 K 2 folds, Hero raises to $30, SB folds, BB raises to $120, Hero calls.Flop: T J 9 ($245, 2 players)BB bets $180, Hero raises to $470, BB raises all-in $865, Hero calls.Turn: K ($1975, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $1975)River: A ($1975, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $1975)Results:Final pot: $1975BB showed 8s Kc Link to post Share on other sites
bull62 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 his range pre-flop was literally any 2.I think this is a very good reason why it's a fold on the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 button is a msnl reg, usually at the 5/10 3/6 games I believe. I have a reputation as a pretty loose player I guess :Pwhen I shoved, he used part of his time bank and finally called.Poker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$106 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $5060.75Hero: $1015CO: $1247Button: $1000SB: $2822BB: $600Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K A UTG folds, Hero raises to $30, CO raises to $110, Button raises to $230, 2 folds, Hero raises all-in $1015, CO folds, Button calls all-in $770.Uncalled bets: $15 returned to Hero. Flop: J J 2 ($2125, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2125)Turn: 4 ($2125, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2125)River: 2 ($2125, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2125)Results:Final pot: $2125Hero showed Ks AhVillain showed Qs 8hwatHow do you get this to hold?So I got the J6 villain back. I just started messing around with pokerstove so can someone tell me if just based on equity this is a call. equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 57.528% 56.15% 01.37% 1177887186 28801267.00 { JcTc }Hand 1: 42.472% 41.10% 01.37% 862082680 28801267.00 { random }Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button ($11.65)SB ($9.90)BB ($9.35)UTG ($14.40)MP ($9.95)Hero ($10)Preflop: Hero is CO with T, J. UTG raises to $0.2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, BB raises to $9.45 (All-In), UTG folds, Hero calls $8.60.Flop: ($18.95) 9, T, 2(2 players, 1 all-in)Turn: ($18.95) Q(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($18.95) K(2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $19.05Results in white below: BB has 7c 7d (one pair, sevens). Hero has Tc Jc (straight, king high). Outcome: Hero wins $19.04. Well, if his hand is truly random (I don't think it is, but for the sake of discussion), we just need to look at our pot odds. There's $9.45+$0.75+$0.20 in the pot, and we need to call $8.60. So.... $10.40:$8.60, aka 1.21:1. Therefore, we need 1/2.21 = 45.25% equity to breakeven. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 I think this is a very good reason why it's a fold on the turn.Yeah, all it would take is plugging your hand into PokerStove, on that board, and running it against a random hand.It'll show you exactly how well, or how poorly your hand rates against a random hand. Link to post Share on other sites
bull62 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 How do you get this to hold?Well, if his hand is truly random (I don't think it is, but for the sake of discussion), we just need to look at our pot odds. There's $9.45+$0.75+$0.20 in the pot, and we need to call $8.60. So.... $10.40:$8.60, aka 1.21:1. Therefore, we need 1/2.21 = 45.25% equity to breakeven.Did you see the J6 hand? How can it be anything but random? Link to post Share on other sites
bull62 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 How do you get this to hold?Well, if his hand is truly random (I don't think it is, but for the sake of discussion), we just need to look at our pot odds. There's $9.45+$0.75+$0.20 in the pot, and we need to call $8.60. So.... $10.40:$8.60, aka 1.21:1. Therefore, we need 1/2.21 = 45.25% equity to breakeven.Can you explain the last calculation to me. Why 1/2.21? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Did you see the J6 hand? How can it be anything but random?Mmmm, not really. If he's shoving any hand, then sure, random works. Can you explain the last calculation to me. Why 1/2.21?When you go from odds notation to fractional notation, you do this:x:y = y/x+yso like 5:2 = 2/7, 9:1 = 1/10I'm not a mathy guy, but I think that's right, lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 button is a msnl reg, usually at the 5/10 3/6 games I believe. I have a reputation as a pretty loose player I guess Surely not! Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 oh yeahI might take the rest of the month off.cheers to the best week of my life pokerwise Link to post Share on other sites
empythree 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 dumb on my part?.. i seem to be gettin it all in with hands like these and mostly losingPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP1 (t6943)MP2 (t3620)MP3 (t10343)Hero (t4690)Button (t8120)SB (t1190)BB (t12446)UTG (t6847)UTG+1 (t3040)Preflop: Hero is CO with T, T. UTG calls t100, 1 fold, MP1 calls t100, 2 folds, Hero raises to t400, 2 folds, BB calls t300, UTG calls t300, MP1 calls t300.Flop: (t1650) 5, T, 4(4 players)BB bets t200, UTG folds, MP1 raises to t600, Hero raises to t1400, BB folds, MP1 raises to t6543, Hero calls t2290 (All-In).Turn: (t12083) 8(2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t12083) Q(2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: t9230 Link to post Share on other sites
aussiedonk 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Yeah, all it would take is plugging your hand into PokerStove, on that board, and running it against a random hand.It'll show you exactly how well, or how poorly your hand rates against a random hand. I think you guys are right that I should have folded somewhere. The paired board certainly screws my equity. However I think that once I get to the turn, his hand is no longer random. His overbet shove, given history, is never an A. However it is certainly possible that he is bluffing with the best hand, and even if he isn't, he has usually has 9 outs to win the pot and 3 to chop.Meh I might muck around with some ranges on stove. I really don't think the call is that bad. If you take all aces out of his range, the board is pretty dry and misses his hand a large % of the time.I certainly call way too often though so it is good to be told that objectively Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Pointless HHYea I'm always folding to that shove, you're obviously against a flush draw or 2 pair and you're only at best at 65% favourite and you've only commited 40% of your stack.Also if you're going to raise preflop, min raise, no need to go overboard. Link to post Share on other sites
ah2388 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 pwned imoIraqi Mayans win with the.....4 high?PokerStars Game #17026946152: Tournament #85346132, $30+$3 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (800/1600) - 2008/04/27 - 08:47:11 (ET)Table '85346132 58' 9-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: Scarecr0w (43873 in chips) Seat 2: Badboy Orrie (15493 in chips) Seat 3: PROF_ACEHOLE (36192 in chips) Seat 4: YrrsiNN (24984 in chips) Seat 5: takesallcash (10188 in chips) Seat 6: win51888 (19781 in chips) Seat 7: Iraqi Mayan (42677 in chips) Seat 8: !!Prinz2002 (16332 in chips) is sitting outSeat 9: jamiearthur (28738 in chips) Scarecr0w: posts the ante 150Badboy Orrie: posts the ante 150PROF_ACEHOLE: posts the ante 150YrrsiNN: posts the ante 150takesallcash: posts the ante 150win51888: posts the ante 150Iraqi Mayan: posts the ante 150!!Prinz2002: posts the ante 150jamiearthur: posts the ante 150Badboy Orrie: posts small blind 800PROF_ACEHOLE: posts big blind 1600*** HOLE CARDS ***!!Prinz2002 is connected !!Prinz2002 has returnedYrrsiNN: folds takesallcash: folds win51888: folds Iraqi Mayan: raises 2400 to 4000!!Prinz2002: folds jamiearthur: folds Scarecr0w: raises 6800 to 10800Badboy Orrie: folds PROF_ACEHOLE: folds rossko_k: raises 31727 to 42527 and is all-inScarecr0w: folds Iraqi Mayan collected 25350 from potIraqi Mayan: shows [4c 3h] (high card Four)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 25350 | Rake 0 Seat 1: Scarecr0w (button) folded before FlopSeat 2: Badboy Orrie (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: PROF_ACEHOLE (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 4: YrrsiNN folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: takesallcash folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: win51888 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: Iraqi Mayan collected (25350)Seat 8: !!Prinz2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: jamiearthur folded before Flop (didn't bet) Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 button is a msnl reg, usually at the 5/10 3/6 games I believe. I have a reputation as a pretty loose player I guess :Pwhen I shoved, he used part of his time bank and finally called.Poker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$106 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $5060.75Hero: $1015CO: $1247Button: $1000SB: $2822BB: $600Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K A UTG folds, Hero raises to $30, CO raises to $110, Button raises to $230, 2 folds, Hero raises all-in $1015, CO folds, Button calls all-in $770.Uncalled bets: $15 returned to Hero. Flop: J J 2 ($2125, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2125)Turn: 4 ($2125, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2125)River: 2 ($2125, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $2125)Results:Final pot: $2125Hero showed Ks AhVillain showed Qs 8hwatLOL. No wonder you're crushing this week :)Mark Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 dave that hand is pretty butchered imo Sadly this is true. Hate the preflop call, meh at flop call and hate turn call. I guess he didn't take my advice on not playing 2/4 quite yet? Link to post Share on other sites
TeeSludge 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 So i booked my WSOP trip for the beginning of series.. my fiance and I are going to fly into San Diego and stay for 2 nights starting on May 28th basically to go to our favorite restaurant there.. I'll have a rental car there and we'll be driving into Vegas on the 30th. Gonna be staying at the Wyndham Grand Desert in a nice little condo suite thing and gonna play events 2 and 7. We will be leaving on the 6th because we have a wedding the next day. Hopefully I'll be coming back by myself for the main event. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Good luck Trev!What's the buy in for the two events you're playing? Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 So i booked my WSOP trip for the beginning of series.. my fiance and I are going to fly into San Diego and stay for 2 nights starting on May 28th basically to go to our favorite restaurant there.. I'll have a rental car there and we'll be driving into Vegas on the 30th. Gonna be staying at the Wyndham Grand Desert in a nice little condo suite thing and gonna play events 2 and 7. We will be leaving on the 6th because we have a wedding the next day. Hopefully I'll be coming back by myself for the main event.El Indio ftw! MmmmI'm playing events 2 and 9.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
TeeSludge 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Good luck Trev!What's the buy in for the two events you're playing?TYTYEvent 2 is 1.5k NLHEEvent 7 is 2k NLHE Link to post Share on other sites
TeeSludge 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 El Indio ftw! MmmmI'm playing events 2 and 9.Mark http://www.roppongiusa.com/That's our place HMMM i checked out the El indio website.. looks good I'll have to check it out Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 So i booked my WSOP trip for the beginning of series.. my fiance and I are going to fly into San Diego and stay for 2 nights starting on May 28th basically to go to our favorite restaurant there.. I'll have a rental car there and we'll be driving into Vegas on the 30th. Gonna be staying at the Wyndham Grand Desert in a nice little condo suite thing and gonna play events 2 and 7. We will be leaving on the 6th because we have a wedding the next day. Hopefully I'll be coming back by myself for the main event.where are you staying in SD? Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Was going to take the day off, but instead got a random message from my brother asking if I wanted to go to the casino, so I head down there and play for three hours.Pretty uneventful, got hit in the face with the deck when I first sat down, but didn't really get paid. I got my brother to play for a while, his first time ever, he accidentally slowrolled me with two pair at one point. only interesting hand is when I insta 3bet a flop as a bluff to a checkraise, although, I noticed a tell on myself, normally I just shove my stack in, maybe say I'm all in, but this time I said I put you all in, I'll have to watch that in the future. The guy folded pretty quickly, but turns out it was a value bet, because when I turned over my Q hi to tilt him he said he had J hi.finished up $34 yipee, fun week this week. Better than down I suppose.Everyone run better please. Even Mikey, you can never have to much of a good thing. Link to post Share on other sites
AAsnake88 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 oh yeahI might take the rest of the month off.cheers to the best week of my life pokerwise<purty graph>Nice week Mikey! Link to post Share on other sites
TB17 0 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Sadly this is true. Hate the preflop call, meh at flop call and hate turn call. I guess he didn't take my advice on not playing 2/4 quite yet?Well he probably figures he shoulda called based on the results and all.Mikey you're the best. Link to post Share on other sites
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