Position!

[BlubsRoyal 0]

Hi, I've only been playing Texas Hold 'Em for 3-4 months now and have been reading books and doing as much as i can to elevate my knowledge on the game to enhance my skills on the felt.I want to discuss Position to understand it fully so i am able to know when "i have position" as they say. I know the basics like the advantages of being on the button or being in late position, cut off etc. but i often hear people say "he has position". I have abit of an idea but don't exactly know when you have position.I Anticipate your replies.

[kkot 0]

I have abit of an idea but don't exactly know when you have position.

When you get to act after the other player.

[BlubsRoyal 0]

When you get to act after the other player.

Am i assuming correct when i say it's probably as simple as that?

[Wandigo 1]

Am i assuming correct when i say it's probably as simple as that?

Yup! You probably hear a lot of people say things like "position > cards." Well, they're right! You especially want to take advantage of it during the mid to late stages of tournies (if you're a tourney player). Making the occasional 'position' raise (hijack/cutoff/button) will accumulate a lot of chips that you're going to need when the blinds start moving up larger. When you're called by one of the blinds, you have position because on every street, they have to act first, not knowing what you're going to do. 80% of the time they're gonna check, you're going to make a continuation bet and you will take down the pot. Also take advantage of this when you're in the bb and it's folded to the sb who just calls. You don't need to have a monster hand to make a ~3x raise and either take it down there, or outplay him on the flop.If you tend to play close attention in tournaments, watch for the players who play position well and aren't loose-crazy. With these guys, you can often take position away from them when you're on the button or cutoff with a resteal hand such as 56 suited 79suited, or similiar hands. Every now and then you can pull off a resteal which will accumulate you a good number of chips. Lets say blinds are 400/800 and you have a stack of about 25k and are on the button. It's folded to the cutoff who makes a standard 2400-2600 raise. It's most likely that you can take the pot down right there (unless you have some crazy loose image) with a raise to about 11,500, maybe more maybe less. Just be sure of the player you're up against and how their image has been up to that point. (When you start to get comfortable with restealing in position, try it OUT of position when you're in one of the blinds and are facing a standard position raise)Hopefully this helped you somewhat. Just remember that when you're in position, you get to last act on every street and your opponent has to think about what you're going to do and base his decision on that. Not many decent players want to play a pot out of position (or "oop" as you might see around here) and that's why it's so important to understand.

[BlubsRoyal 0]

This is going to help me tremendously in this early learning-stage of my poker game (well your always learning but you know what i mean i'm sure). So i really appreciate the detailed reply.I am currently using a tight/conservative type style and has been working fine for me. I am very inclined to the Negreanu type game in that i like to play small-ball as i have kind of a nack for reading people and their hands. But i encountered a table with a couple of very aggresive players raising, re-raising with some all-in home hitter plays. I was more or less dead money as i couldn't play my regular game. I couldn't adapt to the agressiveness mainly because everything was going so fast i failed to read people and their cards. BUT more often than not when ever they showed their cards they were raising with marginal hands like J8o. So I was pretty much intimidated by the agressiveness in the raises and re-raises that i couldn't play my regular game & got scared away from pots. I kinda had a hunch that i was mostly not in position as one of the agressive players was directly to the left of me and the other 3 seats after. So i was in a bad seat. I knew that where i was sitting was bad from the get go as you'd like to be on the left of agressive players. But i really didn't have enough knowledge about positioning etc.My other problem as i mentioned was that i got intimidated, i knew they were betting big with marginal hands but the fear drove me to fold marginal hands wich they would raise with such hands as A8, KJ etc. wich i just couldn't get my self to gamble with calling these big raises But now with these explainations and extra knowldege you've provided i know that they may have been using position strategy on me wich i didn't really understand fully at that point. Knowing this doesn't make me feel as bad as these players were obviously more advanced than my 3-4 month experiences. But i can now sit with these same players and at least understand what is going on and with that knowledge in mind helps me to strengthen my game further!

[Zach6668 513]

BlubsRoyal,Just a bit of advice for ya here.If you are playing tournaments, your best bet would be to pick up the books "Harrington on Hold'Em" and "Harrington on Hold'Em 2", as they serve excellent guides to tournament poker.Also, we have a forum here dedicated to tournament poker, http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...hp?showforum=19, and I've always found it to be a great benefit to go the forum reading the hands and posts, and hopefully you'll feel inclined to post some of your own hands there, or even comment on some hands that others have posted. There are some amazing players who post regularly there that we all learn from.Anyways, welcome to FCP.- ZachPS - Good post Wandigo.

[RiscaRod 0]

Being a beginner poker player, you are on the steepest part of the learning curve by far. A little knowledge you learn now will add alot to your game. Therefore my best advice to you is to absorb as much quality information as you can as fully as you can. And if you stick around here you can guarantee you can receive some quality information.

[navybuttons 15]

a simple game that relates position well:2 players (A,B ). 13 cards 2-A. each player is dealt a card, the highest card at showdown wins, and there is three rounds of bet/check/fold but there is no raising. in the first round of betting the bet is $1, second round $2 and third round $4. A goes first each round.hand one. A: queen B: jackhow it plays: A bets first round, B calls. A bets second round, B calls. on the third round A only gets called if B has a K or A so he checks, B checks and A wins the $6 pot. ($3 profit)hand two. A: jack B: queenhow it plays: A bets first round, B calls. A bets second round, B calls. on the third round A checks and B bets. A has to call a certain about of the time here (25% or so) to prevent being snowed in the future. the 75% he folds B wins a $6 pot ($3 profit), the 25% he calls B wins a $14 pot ($7) profit. in the case of these two hands B has a $1 higher average profit. you can keep playing this game or a similiar one (changing different parameters like bet sizes, hands, etc.) until you see how much more equity in any single hand the player in position has.goodluck.

[Actuary 3]

BlubsRoyal,welcome!************Navybuttons >>>>>> Cream cheese on a toasted onion bagel

[Money022 0]

It's taken me two years to truely value position. I always knew it was important, but still let my cards dictate my play above anything else. What a horrible mistake. One thing you will find, is that post flop play becomes 100 times easier with position.

[Snamuh 0]

One thing you will find, is that post flop play becomes 100 times easier with position.

Indeed. I find this especially true with hands like AK-AJ where you flop TPTK. If a lot of betting occurs on the flop (3 betting, etc.) and your opponent continues to show considerable strength, how do you approach the turn? It really sucks when you are OOP and you still do not know whether you are ahead and you A) Miss out on a value bet or B) Call down a worse hand. Position is huge.

[GABMAD 0]

Hi, I've only been playing Texas Hold 'Em for 3-4 months now and have been reading books and doing as much as i can to elevate my knowledge on the game to enhance my skills on the felt.I want to discuss Position to understand it fully so i am able to know when "i have position" as they say. I know the basics like the advantages of being on the button or being in late position, cut off etc. but i often hear people say "he has position". I have abit of an idea but don't exactly know when you have position.I Anticipate your replies.

Let's assume you're in cutoff and it gets folded to you, you bump it up to 3x BB. BB calls. After the flop, you have position on him because he has to act before you. Sometimes, however, it's more advantageous to be first to act, but 80% of the time, you're in a better place if you are last to act for the simple reason that you have more information. When I said sometimes it's more advantageous to act 1st, consider this. You have AA and are in the BB. You opponent, in the CO raises is to 3x bb. You know that he's likely stealing but he fires out a CB 95% of the time. Being OOP is actually advantageous here. You can call his bet prelfop, and check/raise him on the flop. That's an example of a situation where you being out of position is actually really being 'in position'. Hope this makes sense, because it does in my head.

[Xenobias 0]

"Position" can be very complex tool. Understanding and utilizing it can take quite a long time. Position play can be very frustrating for the beginner. It doesn't just mean "the best positions to play from is the button and one off the button<cutoff>" Or "you're in position if you act last". Positional play governs your entire trip around the table. You will use it to factor in just how strong a hand you want to start with and how large a bet you will need to make. Your postion can be weakened. The two most common ways are playing a person oblivious to position and playing a person who thinks a marginal hand is far stronger than it really is-ex Ace/rag or K/J-still acting last after this type of person is superior to acting first and you would definantly want this type of matchup to be one on one. Take little bites, one at a time. Say concentrating on using it while on the button and in the cutoff. When you're comfortable with the first bite, expand it's use a tad bit, maybe using it from the next two positions back from the cutoff (middle position). After you get comfortable with the basics of position you can then start to learn some of the more esoteric strategies of position such as "Enhanced Position". Won't cover that here. I don't check the boards very often so you can send me an email if you wish.PeaceXeno

[Actuary 3]

^^^^^he should post more