Kings On A Safe Flop

[bdc30 0]

Never seen the villain before, but he seems to have a decent stack...Table has been pretty loose to this point. Absolute PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $2/$46 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1990.05UTG+1: $977.30CO: $247.60Button: $660.52SB: $826.64Hero: $488Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K K 2 folds, CO raises to $14, Button calls, SB folds, Hero raises to $52, CO folds, Button calls.Flop: 3 5 3 ($120, 2 players)Hero bets $96, Button raises all-in $608.52, Hero .....

[David_Nicoson 1]

Never seen the villain before, but he seems to have a decent stack...Table has been pretty loose to this point. Absolute PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $2/$46 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1990.05UTG+1: $977.30CO: $247.60Button: $660.52SB: $826.64Hero: $488Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K K 2 folds, CO raises to $14, Button calls, SB folds, Hero raises to $52, CO folds, Button calls.Flop: 3 5 3 ($120, 2 players)Hero bets $96, Button raises all-in $608.52, Hero .....

If he's playing something better than a pair here, he's being very tricky. A pair or a good draw usually, imho. I think I'm calling.

[iggymcfly 0]

Looks like a draw. Pretty coordinated board. I'd get it in here without a second thought. A 3's a real unlikely hand to call a reraise with and I can't see a boat playing it this fast either. I'd say 70% draw, 20% two pair that we beat, 6% air, 3% AA, 0.8% trips, 0.2% boat/quads.

[Sefaje 0]

I'm definitely calling here. If he's silly enough to do this with 55, he deserves to be paid off. Of course with you making it $57 with a raise and call PF and putting out an almost potsize flop bet, it could be a pretty smart guy who realizes most of his value in the long run will be from shoving and getting calls from you when you have what it looks like you have, a big pair.That said, this is 6-max, and a flush-draw could definitely be doing this as well. if he has A4c, it's almost exactly 50/50 (49.7/50.3). any other flush draw you're decently ahead of besides 24c.If he has a three, then that's just weird.You've already got 1/3 of your stack in though, so I don't see folding as a profitable play just because of how much you're crushing 22/44/66-QQ. a naked flush draw has you at 70%, and any other draw you're a coinflip.So yes. call and cross the fingers.

[PlzFoldNow 0]

This may just be me, but it looks a lot like AA. Still no way I'm folding.

[socalpoker_j 1]

Never seen the villain before, but he seems to have a decent stack...Table has been pretty loose to this point. Absolute PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $2/$46 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1990.05UTG+1: $977.30CO: $247.60Button: $660.52SB: $826.64Hero: $488Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K K 2 folds, CO raises to $14, Button calls, SB folds, Hero raises to $52, CO folds, Button calls.Flop: 3 5 3 ($120, 2 players)Hero bets $96, Button raises all-in $608.52, Hero .....

What kind of hands has he shown down? Does he open a lot of pots in position and make light calls to reraises?I'm calling here.

[krup24 0]

This is TT-QQ or a flush draw so much it's a must call. Although to be honest I've been experimenting playing AA exactly like villian.

[DonkSlayer 1]

This is TT-QQ or a flush draw so much it's a must call. Although to be honest I've been experimenting playing AA exactly like villian.

I think this works much better playing SH than FT. Your experience?

[mtdesmoines 3]

Never seen the villain before, but he seems to have a decent stack...Table has been pretty loose to this point. Absolute PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $2/$46 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1990.05UTG+1: $977.30CO: $247.60Button: $660.52SB: $826.64Hero: $488Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K K 2 folds, CO raises to $14, Button calls, SB folds, Hero raises to $52, CO folds, Button calls.Flop: 3 5 3 ($120, 2 players)Hero bets $96, Button raises all-in $608.52, Hero .....

Fold.

[Sefaje 0]

Fold.

Care to give any reasoning behind this? You think its 53/AA/55/33 so often that he should fold? Those are the only hands that beat him.I've seen AA played this way as well, but not often enough to make up for the more common flush draw / 66-QQ here. He's 70% against a flush draw and 92% against a lower pair. I just don't see a fold at all. This is like .001% to be 53 or 33(very very unlikely, and noone plays flopped quads this fast)So you're convinced that villain has 55 or AA a large majority of the time? I just cannot agree with this at all.bdc30, if you lost this hand (and not to a flush/some other outdraw), then that just sucks. Make a note that villain is capable of playing AA very tricky and reload.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Care to give any reasoning behind this? You think its 53/AA/55/33 so often that he should fold? Those are the only hands that beat him. I've seen AA played this way as well, but not often enough to make up for the more common flush draw here. ..... So you're convinced that villain has 55 or AA a large majority of the time? I just cannot agree with this at all.

Villain called a raise, called a re-raise, shovelled the flop. Screams AA hiding behind the strength of someone else's raise and re-raise. Villain couldn't be happier with this flop. If villain holds KK, he re-pops pre-flop to test his hand strength (like Hero did). If it's <QQ, he doesn't pull this stunt (all in on flop) with a raise and re-raise preflop. 55/33/53 are in the muck. Suited AK mucks preflop to a $52 bet. I'm seeing AA played this way (running under cover of someone else's strength) more than ever because everyone knows that if you're boosting every bet preflop you have AA and you're going to lose all your action post-flop, except to hands that beat you. Villain sees no paint on the flop, he knows he's good, and he's taking your chips. You call this bet, you're getting stacked 90% of the time. Look at it this way: should you always call off all your chips to the fifth nut hand on the flop, with additional outdraws available?

[bdc30 0]

Suited AK mucks preflop to a $52 bet.

Apparently it doesn't. He had AK I called, no club or ace came (I WAS on absolute, not pokerstars....)and I took down my biggest pot in a while. I was thinking great, just ran in to aces, when he insta-shoveled.

[krup24 0]

I think this works much better playing SH than FT. Your experience?

in my experience it works better SH although it can be just effective FR with the right blend of players. reads are critical to the play. I would play AA like this against a strong/tight player who i know will go broke with an overpair.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Apparently it doesn't. He had AK I called, no club or ace came (I WAS on absolute, not pokerstars....)and I took down my biggest pot in a while. I was thinking great, just ran in to aces, when he insta-shoveled.

Wow. That is all. Wow. You dodge AA better than me. I've been stacked three times by AA in the last 8 or so times I've had KK.

[silkyjonson 1]

Apparently it doesn't. He had AK I called, no club or ace came (I WAS on absolute, not pokerstars....)and I took down my biggest pot in a while. I was thinking great, just ran in to aces, when he insta-shoveled.

Ya AK suited does play like this exactly. He had an over and a flush draw in a six max game his play is not bad, he may have to overs to qq and below and may make jj and below fold. If I'm in your position I pretty much call all the time in this spot if you see AA oh well the guy played his hand well. Not many players at 6max would fold AK suited for that raise.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Ya AK suited does play like this exactly. He had an over and a flush draw in a six max game his play is not bad, he may have to overs to qq and below and may make jj and below fold. If I'm in your position I pretty much call all the time in this spot if you see AA oh well the guy played his hand well. Not many players at 6max would fold AK suited for that raise.

What's everyone's feelings on villain's play?

[Jordan 1]

What's everyone's feelings on villain's play?

high risk/ high reward.if he is well rolled, it's fine (kinda...more or less)...even if he isn't, it's not that "bad" of a play...it's just kinda higher variance...i wouldnt fold kk here. i'd be more inclined to fold if he made a smaller raise, or something..but i still prob get all in on the flop.- Jordan

[mtdesmoines 3]

high risk/ high reward.if he is well rolled, it's fine (kinda...more or less)...even if he isn't, it's not that "bad" of a play...it's just kinda higher variance...i wouldnt fold kk here. i'd be more inclined to fold if he made a smaller raise, or something..but i still prob get all in on the flop.- Jordan

Maybe I'm just feeling the tilt. I have had KK run into AA 3 out of the last 8 holdings. Insane. And I've lost a ton on it, too.

[bdc30 0]

Here's my last experience with playing AK today...Absolute PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $2/$45 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: $937.60CO: $188.20Button: $1346.50SB: $413.10BB: $156Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with K A Hero raises to $12, 3 folds, BB calls.Flop: J K 6 ($26, 2 players)BB bets $28, Hero raises to $364, BB calls all-in $116.Uncalled bets: $220 returned to Hero. Turn: 3 ($314, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $314)River: 8 ($314, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $314)Results:Final pot: $314BB Shows 8s JsHero Shows Ks Ad

[krup24 0]

Here's my last experience with playing AK today...Absolute PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $2/$45 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: $937.60CO: $188.20Button: $1346.50SB: $413.10BB: $156Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with K A Hero raises to $12, 3 folds, BB calls.Flop: J K 6 ($26, 2 players)BB bets $28, Hero raises to $364, BB calls all-in $116.Uncalled bets: $220 returned to Hero. Turn: 3 ($314, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $314)River: 8 ($314, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $314)Results:Final pot: $314BB Shows 8s JsHero Shows Ks Ad

BBFIDTSNo but seriously that sucks

[bdc30 0]

BBFIDTS

I know, but I figured it was cool to hijack your own thread with a bad beat post, since it was AK related...lol

[Sea Wasp 0]

Insta call here. He makes the same move with TT-QQ as well as many combinations of club draws. I usually see a hand like AQcc here becausse villian believes he has at least 1 overcard out in addition to his club outs if he call.

[David_Nicoson 1]

What's everyone's feelings on villain's play?

I think he gets a call on this board a lot. He has enough outs that getting even an occasional fold gives him a nice profit.Assuming the hero's actual hand for a moment, let's crunch a few numbers.

Board: 3h 5c 3cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	55.354%	  55.35% 	00.00% 			   548 			0.00   { KdKh }Hand 1: 	44.646%	  44.65% 	00.00% 			   442 			0.00   { AcKc }

If the hero calls the villain, the pot is (488 x 2) + 14 + 4 +2 = 996. The villain's equity is 0.44646 x 996 = 444. He traded 436 for this equity by raising on the flop, so his push is slightly +EV compared to folding (even if the hero calls 100% of the time).If we consider a range of high pairs calling this push, the villain's equity is slightly better.

Board: 3h 5c 3cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	53.754%	  53.67% 	00.08% 			  9564 		   15.00   { JJ+ }Hand 1: 	46.246%	  46.16% 	00.08% 			  8226 		   15.00   { AcKc }

I think it's clear that raising all in is a better play than folding, which comes to us as no surprise, really. How does raising all-in compare to other lines? Those are much more complicated to model, so I'll just wave my hands around and talk about it.If the hero flat calls on the flop, what can happen?

• The flush hits.The villain gets paid something here with the hero drawing slim. He might get a lot action from Q Qx.
• A blank friendly to the hero falls.E.g., another 5 would look really good to the hero. If the hero bets 3/4 pot again, the villain is going to have to figure out how many outs he has to make the right decision.
• A blank scary to the hero hits.If a jack hits and the hero bets, the villain can much more plausibly represent a set.

While something scarier might come on the turn, the odds we're offering the hero are increasing. So I don't think the villain's chances for getting a fold from a better hand improve. I don't have a solid conclusion here. It depends. How about if the hero has AK and the villain is free-rolling for the flush? Does he want a fold? That's an interesting situation.

Board: 3h 5c 3cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	31.818%	  00.00% 	31.82% 				 0 		 1890.00   { AKo }Hand 1: 	68.182%	  36.36% 	31.82% 			  2160 		 1890.00   { AcKc }

This doesn't fit well into a classic draw vs. made hand paradigm. We could say that the AKo has a draw to half the pot by catching running blanks. (This is a scenario that maybe a good PLO/8 player has thought through thoroughly.) I suspect the villain's best move against this hand is to flat call and bet or raise the turn.