DerekTah 0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 As far as Jesus not teaching constantly and confronting sin constantly, O.K. Show me one account where sin was going on and he didn't confront it, or exort the sinner. Good luck.You asked for an account where sin was going on and he didn't confront or exort. 11 to 1 delivered that account.Next! Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You asked for an account where sin was going on and he didn't confront or exort. 11 to 1 delivered that account.Next! You I can help. I will personally deliver a thread dealing with this nonsense in the next 24 hours. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Back to topic I own a business and I am constantly in a situation where I am dealing in a business sense with sinners, some worse than others.When the Gay Pride Parade asks for balloons, I quote them just like everyeon else, okay maybe a little more but if you had to see the 'cheerleaders' who kept their goatees and opted for the really short skirts, you would charge extra too.We decided a long time ago that in our business we will be dealing with people that we may disagree with on many things, faith, politics, etc. but our business isn't in judgement, it's balloons, or flowers, props etc. So choosing to refuse to deal with someone that is a sinner isn't very valid, since we all are.Surprised no one pointed out that Larry Flint became saved quite a few years ago, like 20 years ago.Or that the Bible clearly says to slaves to obey their masters. Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Or that the Bible clearly says to slaves to obey their masters.So you believe god thinks slavery is good.Ok, I know you probably don't believe that, but I can see everyone coming in here saying that what that passage means.Thats why I wrote about loving your enemies, because I believe Jesus is telling them (also us too) a way to live through the bad stuff of your life without your heart becoming blackened with hatred. Typically we don't listen (hell, I can't leave my enemies alone on a message board). Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So you believe god thinks slavery is good.Ok, I know you probably don't believe that, but I can see everyone coming in here saying that what that passage means.Thats why I wrote about loving your enemies, because I believe Jesus is telling them (also us too) a way to live through the bad stuff of your life without your heart becoming blackened with hatred. Typically we don't listen (hell, I can't leave my enemies alone on a message board). Ok... first we're talking about God and slavery.Now we're talking about a "heart becoming blackened with hatred".Eh?Is the force strong in you?Good... I can feel your anger. I am unarmed. Take your weapon. STRIKE ME DOWN WITH ALL OF YOUR HATRED... and your journey towards the dark side will be complete. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Back to topic I own a business and I am constantly in a situation where I am dealing in a business sense with sinners, some worse than others.When the Gay Pride Parade asks for balloons, I quote them just like everyeon else, okay maybe a little more but if you had to see the 'cheerleaders' who kept their goatees and opted for the really short skirts, you would charge extra too.We decided a long time ago that in our business we will be dealing with people that we may disagree with on many things, faith, politics, etc. but our business isn't in judgement, it's balloons, or flowers, props etc. So choosing to refuse to deal with someone that is a sinner isn't very valid, since we all are.Surprised no one pointed out that Larry Flint became saved quite a few years ago, like 20 years ago.Or that the Bible clearly says to slaves to obey their masters. Sure, Larry Flynt became saved, whatever that is, and continued to be Mr. Lord of Porn. Therefore, not a christian at all, but a fraud. The bible does say that slaves should obey their masters, and then gives clear instructions how those slaves should be treated and that once they pay off their debts they should be given freedom. Didn't read that far, did you? Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Ok... first we're talking about God and slavery.Now we're talking about a "heart becoming blackened with hatred".Eh?Is the force strong in you?Good... I can feel your anger. I am unarmed. Take your weapon. STRIKE ME DOWN WITH ALL OF YOUR HATRED... and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.Sorry, little over melodramatic there. Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Sorry, little over melodramatic there.Just like you, buddy Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Just like you, buddy I meant I was being overdramatic with the "heart becoming blackened" bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I think the clear message regarding being a good slave is that this life isn't the one to get worked up over. This is a very deep concept that few can grasp, I think the slaves of South in early American history understood it, the hymms they sung were deeper in faith than most of contemopary Christian Music today will ever be.Undenieably slavery is wrong, and we should and did do what we needed to in order to end it in America, but the Bible was written for all people right where they were at, not just free men in power positions. But it's not a promise that this life will be great, or even not bad.What God has prepared in Heaven makes the best that the world has to offer a stinking cesspool in comparison, some are deeper in the cesspool than others.Like the old saying:For the Christian, this life is the worst it will ever be.For the Non-Christian, this life is the best it will ever be.I knew Flint's 'faith' didn't go over so well, but I don't think God's done with him yet. He's done harder things. Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 What I was going for was a "don't let the fact that you are a slave overwhelm you life, you should still love and not hate". Is that still being too overdramatic? Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 What does Heaven have to offer me? Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 What does Heaven have to offer me?General belief is eternal happiness and being near god.I should add I don't know you so I don't know what Heaven has to offer you. I image you would only know what your ideal heaven is (assuming you do have one). Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Eternal happiness is impossible. Any constant state of anything reduces its effectiveness. Kind of like eating your favorite food every meal of every day. It tastes pretty bland after awhile Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Eternal happiness is impossible. Any constant state of anything reduces its effectiveness. Kind of like eating your favorite food every meal of every day. It tastes pretty bland after awhile So honestly what exactly is the magic answer you are looking for? What exactly would you want heaven to offer you (if anything)? Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 There is no magic answer. Heaven is a joke Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 There is no magic answer. Heaven is a joke I wonder why you bothered asking about what heaven could offer you then? Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Because I want to find out what in the world you think Heaven is. Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Because I want to find out what in the world you think Heaven is.Oh, well then rather then give you the general view of belief I give my personal belief in heaven.The answer: A place where God is, other than that I don't know a thing about it. Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Oh, well then rather then give you the general view of belief I give my personal belief in heaven.The answer: A place where God is, other than that I don't know a thing about it.For what it's worth, that's the most reasonable answer I've ever heard. Not that God is justifiable or arguable, but from all the answers I've gotten from Christians... that is the best one Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 There is no magic answer. Heaven is a joke The Apostle Paul said if there is no Heaven, then we Christians are the most pathetic people in the world.And cue the pile on Link to post Share on other sites
11 to 1 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I wonder why you bothered asking about what heaven could offer you then?What's the best life you can imagine? You or whoever was asking - To me it is the best job, engaging and challenging and meaningful - a job that accomplishes something, that is a pleasure to do--To me it is also great family, people to be with who are always delighted to see you and whom you are always delighted to see as well.It is complete freedom from fear, doubt, pain, and the sure knowledge that those things can never happen and that this life will never end. That's heaven. I can't conceive of it, precisely, of course, in this state of humaness, but I know it's there and will have these elements. Heaven is the best we can all imagine, unimaginably better than we can. It's what everyone wants - it's what atheists want. Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 What's the best life you can imagine? You or whoever was asking - To me it is the best job, engaging and challenging and meaningful - a job that accomplishes something, that is a pleasure to do--To me it is also great family, people to be with who are always delighted to see you and whom you are always delighted to see as well.It is complete freedom from fear, doubt, pain, and the sure knowledge that those things can never happen and that this life will never end. That's heaven. I can't conceive of it, precisely, of course, in this state of humaness, but I know it's there and will have these elements. Heaven is the best we can all imagine, unimaginably better than we can. It's what everyone wants - it's what atheists want.That's the thing, though... that life would be terrible. Happiness is derived from the ability to be miserable and vice versa. Good wouldn't be so good if a being didn't consistently experience and know bad. Heaven would be terrible. A pure state of bliss is impossible. Not only that, but Heaven couldn't possibly be everything that everyone wants... especially since many things that people want, God is apparently against. God would allow in Heaven what he doesn't approve of on Earth? Doesn't sound like a very solid heaven. I'm sorry... I'm not trying to be an ***, but the idea of Heaven is contradictory and philosophically wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I want to try to post my thoughts on this, but I hope you don't see this as an outright attack on what you beliefs are, but can see where I'm coming from. To me it is also great family, people to be with who are always delighted to see you and whom you are always delighted to see as well.So what about the people you were always delighted to not be with, the people who you not only dislike in general, but also dislike because you know they brought out the worse in you? Will they not go to heaven, will you not have to deal with them, will we all just have one attitude about everything so it won't be important?It is complete freedom from fear, doubt, pain, and the sure knowledge that those things can never happen and that this life will never end.Thats a nice wish, but why is it free from these things. I mean that in the sense that I do believe that at times God suffers. You can see this in Jesus. When his friend dies, he didn't just raise him from the dead, first Jesus cries and grieved for his friend. If God does suffer why should we be spared. If for a hypothetical one of our jobs is to be a guardian spirit for someone. Why would we not be sad if they lose someone, scared if we see the person going the wrong direction, etc. Now it could be indeed completly free from those feelings, but it may not be so.I also question the typical viewpoint of the "you get to Heaven, x occurs and that is it!". Maybe heaven is the final place for you to go on a spiritual jorney without the problem of earthly sin in the way. That why I gave my answer because the only thing I am certain of is that God is in Heaven, anything else I do not know.I hope this leads to discussion and not debate. Link to post Share on other sites
renaedawn 1 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 G3... Satriani, Petrucci, Gilbert.... Am I missing something? lolThe BETTER version of G3:http://www.satriani.com/G3/ Finally this thread has turned into something interesting.Reminds me that I promised to burn some Petrucci for MDG. I really need to get on that. Link to post Share on other sites
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