Ak Soooted

[CodyHartman 0]

3/6 kill game at the local B&M.I am UTG+2 with AK of spades, it is a kill pot, UTG has the kill button and does not have to act until it comes back around to him, so I am first to act and I raise it up to 12$. I have a fairly tight aggressive image at the table so this raise should mean something. (But then again this is 3/6).2 people fold, the next guy 3 bets it, a couple folds and the guy in the BB caps it, putting in $21 cold ($24 is the total bet mnus $3 fromm his BB). The guy on the kill button folds and then it is back to me.What do I do?the pot has $61 (My $12, 3 bets $18, SB's $1, BB's $24)in it so far and I am looking at putting in $12 more to continue. You figure the guy who 3 bet it is going to call making it $12 to win $67 or 5.5-1ish.Ill let the discussion go for a bit then talk about my thinking in the hand and what I did, then later on what actually occurred.I will say the guy who 3 bet is a fairly aggressive yet tighter player, and the BB guy is your average 3/6 player.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Wait, what's the question? You're asking if you should call 2-cold with AKs?Like, yeah...? What's the issue?

[TheCinciKid 0]

Since we're only talking about pre-flop here. Easiest. Call. Ever.There should really be no debate here. I loooove having AKs in a capped pot pre-flop. No debate.

[Zach6668 513]

Fold.Seriously.AKs plays terribly in monstrous pots.sw

[beans422 0]

Fold.Seriously.AKs plays terribly in monstrous pots.sw

You're confusing our OP, we needed a SW on the end.

[Zach6668 513]

You're confusing our OP, we needed a SW on the end.

look closely...

[antistuff 0]

let me put it this way...if the cap was 5 instead of 4 you would make it 5.

[beans422 0]

look closely...

Ahhhhh. It's like The Da Vinci code all over again. NH.And yes, we would make it 5 bets and be very happy about it.

[CodyHartman 0]

Noone wants to think what the other players may have? Lets look at the psychology of this.When I make the first raise UTG (and I have a pretty tight image) and get raised and reraised, wouldnt this send some alarms off to anyone? The 3 bet guy has to have atleast an A probably AK or a big pair like AA KK or QQ, then the guy who caps it and puts in $21 cold, wouldnt anyone put him on a big pair once again? I am giving these 2 players too much credit for they're hands?Is it b/c 95% of the players at a 3/6 table arent thinking about who raises and why? So I should disregard my thinking and know AK sooted is a big hand and I am probably good in most cases?Aseem, any thoughts?

[mikeysong 0]

I still call since it is big slick.but what you touched on cody is really important:This is a B&M 3/6 games. From what I've read, and from my own experience, 3/6 limit @ b&m tends to be very PASSIVE. People are bad and tend not to raise without a strong hand.Given that, this is a Kill pot -more money = people afraid to lsoe more - where he has now been re-raised to a cap in what is typically a scared game.I call and pray for 2 spades or an Ace.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Noone wants to think what the other players may have?

I understand what you're saying, but understand the psychology of a live 3/6 game that has even more gamble added (the kill.) Your question is essentially, shouldn't we put someone on AA often enough that a preflop call is at least marginal here. The answer is, no. Our equity is good enough against KK in this size of a pot that we can safely see a flop for 2 more bets. I play a pretty TAG game on loose/aggro limit tables, and I would definitely, definitely be capping with QQ here from the BB.

[CodyHartman 0]

I did not end up putting in the other 2 bets, maybe I was the one who was playing scared? However, in my mind I was facing a big pair like KK (from the BB guy) and either another big pair like QQ or another AK (from the guy who 3 bet). So with that in mind I figured I was up against a tie and a 2 outer (at best). This was my read and I went with it.One thing I did wrong though in this pot was look at the stacks of the other 2 players, and this was my BIGGEST mistake. Both of the players started the hand with around $35 or so, so they were trying to go allin and hope their hand held up for a large pot. So if I were to learn anything from this, and hopefully you too, is to watch the chip stacks of the other players. Had I noticed this I probably would have made the call regardless of my read on the players.Turns out the 3 bet guy had AK of diamonds and the other guy had JJ. The flop was Qxx with one diamond, the turn was a diamond and the river was a K. They ended up getting it allin on the flop for like 2.5 bets. So I woulda chopped with the 3 bet guy. But we dont play results poker here.In hindsight I think I make that call from now on, but I don't know if i see any shame in folding in this spot. I guess it all depends on the game and the players who are raising.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Well, incorrect folds in tight situations feel better at the end of the day than really crappy calls/raises.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I don't understand. At all. Typical BBs cap it here with TERRIBLE hands in 3/6 games, especially during the kill pots.And the 3-bettor is much more likely to protect his hand IN A KILL POT.Regardless, this was just horrible. HOOOOORIBLE. Inexcusable, no matter what justifications you have. One of your 3/6 players has to be very aware, very positionally aware, and have an inordinate amount of respect for you. The other has to have a tight capping range.And it's still probably a call...The only hand you're in the shit against is AA. You're also in trouble with AK vs AK vs a 3rd pocket pair. You're in great shape with AKs vs AQs vs QQ...Awful.Wang

[CodyHartman 0]

The only hand you're in the shit against is AA. You're also in trouble with AK vs AK vs a 3rd pocket pair. You're in great shape with AKs vs AQs vs QQ...Awful.Wang

This was exactly what I was up against and what I thought I was up against. I put the 3 bet guy on AK or a decent pocket pair and the third guy on a decent to big pocket pair, and I was right.so is it still awful?btw I am debating the issue here and dont mnd the constructive criticsm. (basically I am not pissed at what you are saying, I just want to make sure I am plugging the holes in my game, laying down/not laying down hands preflop is one them)thanks for the input though guys. I think I am going to reread SSHE.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

This was exactly what I was up against and what I thought I was up against. I put the 3 bet guy on AK or a decent pocket pair and the third guy on a decent to big pocket pair, and I was right.so is it still awful?btw I am debating the issue here and dont mnd the constructive criticsm. (basically I am not pissed at what you are saying, I just want to make sure I am plugging the holes in my game, laying down/not laying down hands preflop is one them)thanks for the input though guys. I think I am going to reread SSHE.

Yes. Yes it is STILL terrible. Look, just because your bad read was right, it doesn't make the play based on that read CORRECT.Your hand plays great against too many hands- and the odds you're getting are simply too too good- that you can't fold there. I don't mean to insult you, except I kinda want to make you feel bad, because I think it'll make you play better.Wang

[Actuary 3]

I want to comment before getting to where we discuss results....I see you did not make the call; but otherwise, I don't know results.Thers are simply too many hands they could have that you are too good against to fold with $61 in pot for $12 more preflop.9 AK, 6 TT and 6 JJ and 6 QQ and only 3 KK and 3 AAThat's just 6/33 hands that crush you now.And vs KK you are about 30%, still.If we give BB only AA/KK/QQ/AKs, that is still a range you should call against.

[CodyHartman 0]

Yes. Yes it is STILL terrible. Look, just because your bad read was right, it doesn't make the play based on that read CORRECT.Your hand plays great against too many hands- and the odds you're getting are simply too too good- that you can't fold there. I don't mean to insult you, except I kinda want to make you feel bad, because I think it'll make you play better.Wang

You didnt insult me and I dont feel bad. we talked about it at the table a bit and I wanted to get a more intellectual talk about the hand.

[Actuary 3]

Wang is the bestest tough lover there is.I'm trying to be like him in that wayjust with less bourbon

[Zach6668 513]

Pokerstove this.It's an awful fold at a live low limit game. I'd have a boner throwing in the extra money to see a flop.

[TheCinciKid 0]

I just want to re-iterate...everything Wang said here is spot on. In fact, I'm also calling the other 2 bets here with AQs, AJs, KQs, and JTs and I'm loving doing it. The pot is huge, it's only going to get bigger and I want a hand that has great implied odds. AKs is the best of those. In fact, in this pot I think I'd almost rather have AKs than KK and almost definitely I'd rather have AKs than JJ or QQ. Though I'm still playing those too.