Explain This For Me

[WayneDG99 0]

this hand bothered me most. four players left - on the bubble. i am chip leader in the big blind and all three players limp in (something they'd been doing all night). i make it four bets ($800) to go with pocket fours. first and second limper fold. the small blind comes over the top with an all in bet (another $1200 on top of his initial $200 bet). its $600 more to me. of course, i call. i was certain he'd turn over A,K or similar. i am surprised when he shows 8,7 suited. WTF. and of course, less surprised when he flops an eight.

[Zach6668 513]

this hand bothered me most. four players left - on the bubble. i am chip leader in the big blind and all three players limp in (something they'd been doing all night). i make it four bets ($800) to go with pocket fours. first and second limper fold. the small blind comes over the top with an all in bet (another $1200 on top of his initial $200 bet). its $600 more to me. of course, i call. i was certain he'd turn over A,K or similar. i am surprised when he shows 8,7 suited. WTF. and of course, less surprised when he flops an eight.

I would just check the bb and see a flop. This is especially true if your raise puts any of them close to all in, or commits them if they call. You only have a pair of 4s. You are a coinflip vs 56.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

Has anyone said luck yet? Becuase it's luck. Luck.

[Actuary 3]

luck

Actuary didpg 1, like 8th response

[Jeepster80125 0]

I this thread.

[finztotheleft 0]

this hand bothered me most. four players left - on the bubble. i am chip leader in the big blind and all three players limp in (something they'd been doing all night). i make it four bets ($800) to go with pocket fours. first and second limper fold. the small blind comes over the top with an all in bet (another $1200 on top of his initial $200 bet). its $600 more to me. of course, i call. i was certain he'd turn over A,K or similar. i am surprised when he shows 8,7 suited. WTF. and of course, less surprised when he flops an eight.

As Zach already pointed out, I'm not thrilled with your play of the 4's.As a comment on your general dilemma.......There is a large component of luck in this game. Otherwise, Phil Helmuth would win them all . If you know you are better than your opponents, you need to understand making a tricky play won't work against them. If they have watched the WPT on tv and heard how great suited connecters are, they will fall in love with that 87s preflop and not fold. Being better than them involves understanding they will suck out......sometimes in a hand and sometimes in the home game tourney. Wait for the right spots when you know they will overcommitt when you have the nuts, then take their chips.

[Ouch-8s 4]

I'm not going to try to explain my viewpoint in too great a detail for those who don't understand, but I've got a history of winning a lot more money playing in higher limit cash games with professionals, and I've lost some big pots to idiots making bad calls when the odds weren't in their favor, when a pro would have given me the pot and not called my big bet on the turn or all in on the flop.

Ahhh, so you're Negreanu's joke account...

[WayneDG99 0]

As Zach already pointed out, I'm not thrilled with your play of the 4's.As a comment on your general dilemma.......There is a large component of luck in this game. Otherwise, Phil Helmuth would win them all . If you know you are better than your opponents, you need to understand making a tricky play won't work against them. If they have watched the WPT on tv and heard how great suited connecters are, they will fall in love with that 87s preflop and not fold. Being better than them involves understanding they will suck out......sometimes in a hand and sometimes in the home game tourney. Wait for the right spots when you know they will overcommitt when you have the nuts, then take their chips.

[WayneDG99 0]

As Zach already pointed out, I'm not thrilled with your play of the 4's.As a comment on your general dilemma.......There is a large component of luck in this game. Otherwise, Phil Helmuth would win them all . If you know you are better than your opponents, you need to understand making a tricky play won't work against them. If they have watched the WPT on tv and heard how great suited connecters are, they will fall in love with that 87s preflop and not fold. Being better than them involves understanding they will suck out......sometimes in a hand and sometimes in the home game tourney. Wait for the right spots when you know they will overcommitt when you have the nuts, then take their chips.

He was not committed - he called the big blind and then went all in against my big raise (I was the chip leader and bound to call). How do you defend against such non-sense. I don't think patience will do it either because I think this will likely only ensure further races at some late stage in the game when a loss could be crippling. I suppose in some respects its a lot more challenging (if not entertaining) to play against morons. All this really makes me wonder about this game. As a kid, I played in weekly backgammon and scrabble games with my family and bragged about never ever losing to one of my siblings. Seriously. Then I bet them that I could beat all of them at Trivial Pursuit - me against them (I have five siblings - all older than me - I was 15). Of course, I beat them, paraded around the house to Queen's "We are the champions" and they f'n hated me. The point is - I never ever lost. My superior intelligence and gamesmanship always prevailed.Recently, I played heads up (no limit - 3000 chips each) against my wife. She knows nothing, literally, about the game. Not surprisingly, the first three games I beat her. Then, on the last try, she beat me! I told her I was not trying. But I was!! Are we f'n nuts to be playing this game?

[James D 0]

I never ever lost. My superior intelligence and gamesmanship always prevailed.Are we f'n nuts to be playing this game?

If you are as intelligent as you claim, then you should easily be able to work that out for yourself.And if you were intelligent, combined with being skilled games player, then yes, you would win, perhaps after a small learning curve.If you can't, then read at least 2 books.

[Jeepster80125 0]

Ahhh, so you're Negreanu's joke account...

oh, snap.

[profxavier9 0]

I have been playing hold'em for about a year. Mostly online. I suspect I am a decent low stakes player. Recently I played two 5 table $11 tourneys and won them both. Yet when I play in home games with my friends who know little about hold'em my record is only so-so. I have never had a losing night, but I don't feel like I am clearly dominating.Tonite we played 3 $50 tourneys and I placed 9th, 1st and 5th - which meant I won $75 on the night. But I figure I should be crushing these guys. Why I am not consistently winning top prize?

from this post id say your not that great a player.Im with zach on how you played those 4's

[Fade2241 0]

DealOrNo Deal

[Actuary 3]

careful Fade.Dane might ignore you.

[Zach6668 513]

He was not committed - he called the big blind and then went all in against my big raise (I was the chip leader and bound to call). How do you defend against such non-sense.

By not raising 44 out of the big blind in the first place. You are RARELY better than a 50/50 shot against someone who calls you, and often a huge dog drawing to 2 outs.

I don't think patience will do it either because I think this will likely only ensure further races at some late stage in the game when a loss could be crippling. I suppose in some respects its a lot more challenging (if not entertaining) to play against morons. All this really makes me wonder about this game. As a kid, I played in weekly backgammon and scrabble games with my family and bragged about never ever losing to one of my siblings. Seriously. Then I bet them that I could beat all of them at Trivial Pursuit - me against them (I have five siblings - all older than me - I was 15). Of course, I beat them, paraded around the house to Queen's "We are the champions" and they f'n hated me. The point is - I never ever lost. My superior intelligence and gamesmanship always prevailed.

There games are not poker. The luck factor in poker is huge, and skill is small, in the short run. In the long run, the small edge some of us have with skill brings us a favorable return. In the LONG RUN.

Recently, I played heads up (no limit - 3000 chips each) against my wife. She knows nothing, literally, about the game. Not surprisingly, the first three games I beat her. Then, on the last try, she beat me! I told her I was not trying. But I was!! Are we f'n nuts to be playing this game?

Heads up poker is extremely high variant, you aren't going to win every one.Get that fact through your head, and you'll understand poker. Understand that if you are putting your money in as the favorite, then you will be a winner, even if you lose that one time that sticks out in your mind.If you don't understand this, then there's nothing I can do to help you.The fact of the matter is that you want to be playing the worst players possible. Your return decreases when you play against better players, and it's not close.Good luck.- Zach

[TB17 0]

Tonite we played 3 $50 tourneys and I placed 9th, 1st and 5th - which meant I won $75 on the night. But I figure I should be crushing these guys. Why I am not consistently winning top prize?

I smell troll.