Dee_Fan 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Of the last 4 ME Chanpions, I think that Raymer and Hachem are both very good players. Personally I don't feel that Chris Moneymaker or Jamie Gold are as good. Of course, you need to have some skill to win the ME, and you also have to get lucky a few times. However, it just seems to me that Moneymaker and Gold had a huge number of great hands throughout the ME's they won (at least on the hands that were shown on tv).My question to all of you is this? How would you rank the last 4 Main Event Winners, and between Gold and Moneymaker, who would win in a heads up match?I'm not saying I'm better than any of them. I know I have a lot to learn about the game, but I thought this would just be a fun subject on which to get some dialog going.Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
JMoney2681 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hachem, Raymer, Gold, MoneymakerGold>Moneymaker...actually..Pirate with 2 eye patches>MoneymakerAnyone>Moneymaker Link to post Share on other sites
HollowTippedBet 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hachem, Raymer, Gold, MoneymakerGold>Moneymaker...actually..Pirate with 2 eye patches>MoneymakerAnyone>MoneymakerI think gold mentioned that he played poker almost every day for the past 2 years. Not to mention that he was tutored by johnny chan. Gold is no donk. BOOYACASHA Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Gold would crush MM longterm IMHO. Time will tell though; besides MM's finish at the Bay 101 a few years back, he really hasn't accomplished much considering how many events Stars puts him in. Plus, I've always been less then impressed by his play (or at least how it's been portrayed on tv).I didn't think Gold played bad really, but one tournament only goes a small way to defining a player's abilities. Maybe I'm wrong and in the long run he'll be horrible (ala Varkonyi), but based on such a small sample size I'd take Gold over MM. Hachem, Raymer, Gold, MoneymakerGold>Moneymaker...actually..Pirate with 2 eye patches>MoneymakerAnyone>MoneymakerMoneymaker> Varkonyi, Danny NyguenMoneymaker vs Kanter = pick'em Link to post Share on other sites
HollowTippedBet 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Gold would crush MM longterm IMHO. Time will tell though; besides MM's finish at the Bay 101 a few years back, he really hasn't accomplished much considering how many events Stars puts him in. Plus, I've always been less then impressed by his play (or at least how it's been portrayed on tv).I didn't think Gold played bad really, but one tournament only goes a small way to defining a player's abilities. Maybe I'm wrong and in the long run he'll be horrible (ala Varkonyi), but based on such a small sample size I'd take Gold over MM.Moneymaker> Varkonyi, Danny NyguenMoneymaker vs Kanter = pick'emI don't think gold wasn't planning on playing alot of poker tournaments and I don't think varckoni ever did. Anyway, I don't consider gold a donk at all. Obviously he got extremely lucky to win the WSOP, but I was also impressed with his play. I don't think I have ever seen anyone use table talk as effectivley as Gold in the WSOP. He seemed to be able to make his opponents fold or call based on his talk. Sick of typing so, BOOOOOYACASHA!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
chrozzo 19 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I don't think gold wasn't planning on playing alot of poker tournaments and I don't think varckoni ever did. Anyway, I don't consider gold a donk at all. Obviously he got extremely lucky to win the WSOP, but I was also impressed with his play. I don't think I have ever seen anyone use table talk as effectivley as Gold in the WSOP. He seemed to be able to make his opponents fold or call based on his talk. Sick of typing so, BOOOOOYACASHA!!!!!!VARKONYI!!!SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE CHAMP!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Ecclesbury 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 This really is a personal opinion, but I have no respect for a player who's greatest attribute is his ability to influence other players using table talk.But then I am of the school that says table talk is effectively angle shooting and I don't see it as a poker "skill" in any way whatsoever.Take Gold's table table talk away from him and what are you left with? A semi-solid player who made some very dubious plays and got lucky when it mattered in one tournament.Only time will tell if Gold is any good. Time has told that Monkeymaker isn't very good. Link to post Share on other sites
Zeatrix 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 After calling a third raise preflop with QQ and then proclaiming "I was trapping him" makes me laugh. Link to post Share on other sites
carp2440 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 WSOP only let Gold and Moneymaker win the ME because the title fits their names....GOLD / MONEYMAKER. Its witty, and its only fitting they are rich now. Link to post Share on other sites
WallstreetMSU 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 i thought he played that hand pretty well.The way Lee said...."well, i guess i gotta go all in" definitely didnt sound like someone holding KK or AA.I thought he played that hand well...Lee fumbled...thats all.Gold isnt a bad player. I would put him much higher than moneymaker. I think Hachem is the best out of the 4, then raymer.I hate Jamie Gold and how he presents himself. He did catch a tremendous amount of cards....but I really think his talking helped alot to cause oppenents to fold and call at the right times.Like when prahlad laid down the 7's when he called jamie bluff. If jamie kept his mouth shut i think prahlad would have called. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 have not seen any of them play enough to know.Raymers posts on rec.gambling ? show a solid understanding from the ones I've readbut I can't say he's better than Hachem or Gold or MM for that matter. Link to post Share on other sites
Monster1 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Who cares Link to post Share on other sites
Morphii 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Unless you have won or at least cashed at the ME, don't even try to call them donkeys. You are the *** for posting these garbage. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Unless you have won or at least cashed at the ME, don't even try to call them donkeys. You are the *** for posting these garbage.I'm trying to figure out what three letter asterick we could be for 'posting these garbage'. Link to post Share on other sites
Morphii 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 *** = a - s - slolget it?donkey = a - s - sI am such a genius Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 *** = a - s - slolget it?donkey = a - s - sI am such a geniusAh, I thought of that, but not in the context you used. :-)That being said, MM is horrible at poker. Link to post Share on other sites
yourboygsarida 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Unless you have won or at least cashed at the ME, don't even try to call them donkeys. You are the *** for posting these garbage.PMJackson = cash in wpt event/barely missed final table. PMJackson = opinion that is validyou = shut up Link to post Share on other sites
Morphii 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 PMJackson = cash in wpt event/barely missed final table. PMJackson = opinion that is validyou = shut upShut up? This is a freaking forum, stupid. You are a big idiot with a big red dot on your forehead. Come to NY and drive a cab.Entry to WSOP ME = $10,000Tickets to a LAL game $2000Calling yourboygsarida a big idiot = Priceless Link to post Share on other sites
showstopper24 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hachem is the best, then Raymer.Gold i think is actually pretty good from what i have read. from what i have seen and heard he isn't good but i have read from articles that he is great at cash games. i think he could take down moneymaker Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hachem is the best, then Raymer.based on what?????? Link to post Share on other sites
yourboygsarida 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Shut up? This is a freaking forum, stupid. You are a big idiot with a big red dot on your forehead. Come to NY and drive a cab.Entry to WSOP ME = $10,000Tickets to a LAL game $2000Calling yourboygsarida a big idiot = Pricelessboy you are clever. big idiot. and a big red dot on my forehead? why would i drive a cab? at least think about your insults before you spray them. pmjackson's opinion should be respected whether you like it or not Link to post Share on other sites
Fade2241 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 This is poker’s most pointless question. Link to post Share on other sites
Morphii 0 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 boy you are clever. big idiot. and a big red dot on my forehead? why would i drive a cab? at least think about your insults before you spray them. pmjackson's opinion should be respected whether you like it or notYou are a bigger idiot that I thought. I didn't say anthing about pmjackson's post, I am just saying that you people calling GOLD a donk and such. What have all these people done that make them such expert poker player that you can call a ME winner a donk.IF you are one of them then congratulations, you are a big moron. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 This is poker’s most pointless question.me gusta.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Dee_Fan 0 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Morphii,After reading your comments, I would suggest that you pause...take a breath...and then try to read my post a little more slowly next time so you can comprehend the text.In no way did I say that I was better than any of the ME winners. I don't think anyone of much intelligence would deduce that from what I wrote in my post. As I stated before, I was asking for people's opinions purely for the purposes of stirring debate and seeing what other people thought.Is Moneymaker or Gold a donk compared to my skill in the game? I never said anything close to that. I don't know how you could come up with that opinion after reading my post. My opinion is that they are both good players but I also believe that compared to the very best in the game they would not be able to win on a consistent basis. Compared to the top tier players in the game they fall short. Having said that, I do have to admit that I did find the red dot comment pretty funny. From now on whenever I get into a cab, I plan to always carry along a bottle of wine and a pound of bacon (in addition to the required can of air freshener as in the past). Link to post Share on other sites
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