scottyno 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I know often times when someone bets on a bluff and gets called they just tap the table and say "you win" and its over. However, Im pretty sure Frieberg asked to see Force's hand and Force just tossed it into the muck without showing. Isn't Force obligated to show since frieberg wanted to see it? this seems like another example of the wsop being run horribly, between this and the allowance of all of jamie golds questionable collusive statements. Link to post Share on other sites
jaystonephish 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 WRONG Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I know often times when someone bets on a bluff and gets called they just tap the table and say "you win" and its over. However, Im pretty sure Frieberg asked to see Force's hand and Force just tossed it into the muck without showing. Isn't Force obligated to show since frieberg wanted to see it? this seems like another example of the wsop being run horribly, between this and the allowance of all of jamie golds questionable collusive statements.You're correct. I would have made the dealer show it. Link to post Share on other sites
pbhockeyking 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 as far as i know i dont think so, if the guys mucks his cards, it says that the other guys wins. Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 as far as i know i dont think so , if the guys mucks his cards, it says that the other guys wins.I know that my previous post is correct. Link to post Share on other sites
scottyno 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 WRONGpretty sure Im not, since force was the one who bet, that means he shows first. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 WRONGhey n00b, shut up, you dont know anythingForce doesn't have to show even though he is the better, however, if anyone asks to see his hand, he MUST show it. If no one asks to see it before he mucks, then he doesnt have to showcan we please have the 30/30/30 rule Link to post Share on other sites
GWCGWC 83 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 The player that called has the right to see the other players cards.It's very very bad form to ask to see forces cards. Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 pretty sure Im not, since force was the one who bet, that means he shows first.pretty sure? Link to post Share on other sites
scottyno 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 pretty sure?well, ive never actually played a live tourney before and in my home games we usually have people that dont know the exact rules as to who shows first so the betting hand often gets mucked if its no good, but my understanding of the rules has always been that the bettor shows his hand first and if he mucks it because it was a bluff and anyone wants to see it they have to show Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 pretty sure Im not, since force was the one who bet, that means he shows first.he doesnt have to. If the caller shows first for whatever reason, agian, he may fold unless someone asks him Link to post Share on other sites
SpiderGuard 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I don't know how why you all waste your time. 13CARDS will be responding to this any minute with the right info. Link to post Share on other sites
scottyno 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 he doesnt have to. If the caller shows first for whatever reason, agian, he may fold unless someone asks himi believe frieberg said "I call, now show me your cards" as he flipped his hand over. His meaning maye have been "Im probaby beat but I call anyway" but his actual words could be interpreted as requiring force to show his hand Link to post Share on other sites
Alex916F 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 hey,I'm going to poker dealer school so i am very sure of the ruling here, force was obligated to show. when the hand goes to showdown both are supposed to show, at my school they say if ppl hesitate to show because they want to save face make them both turn them up at the same time with no lolligagging. if the winner of the hand asks for the person to show then the person who wanted to muck has to show but has a live hand, if any other person at the table asks to see the cards, which they are entitled to see, the hand will be considered dead. My teach told us to make sure you, "kill" the hand before showing by tapping against the muck pile though. Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that is eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.This is from near bottom of page at:http://www.readybetgo.com/poker/rules/gene...-rules-217.htmlBob Ciaffone is a recognized expert. Link to post Share on other sites
alf13 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 You get CALLED.....you better show your hand..however putrid it may be.Just a simple rule guys. Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 i believe frieberg said "I call, now show me your cards" as he flipped his hand over. His meaning maye have been "Im probaby beat but I call anyway" but his actual words could be interpreted as requiring force to show his handIf Force mucks his hand he is giving up the hand even if Friberg has nothing. (Edit) OK Im 90 % sure he doesnt have to show... Ive been in this situation live when ive asked for a person to show and they threw there cards into the muck. If I'm wrong then lots of dealers dont have the rule right either. Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 as far as i know i dont think so pretty sure Im not wrong OK Im 90 % sure he doesnt have to showIf I'm wrong then lots of dealers dont have the rule right either.90%? I've been 100% sure since I began replying in this thread.You're wrong.Lots of dealers dont have the rule right either.I'm done. Bye. Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 90%? I've been 100% sure since I began replying in this thread.You're wrong.Lots of dealers dont have the rule right either.I'm done. Bye.Ok I'll take your word for it then. See ya. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 i believe frieberg said "I call, now show me your cards" as he flipped his hand over. His meaning maye have been "Im probaby beat but I call anyway" but his actual words could be interpreted as requiring force to show his handNoFrieberg-I callForce-You winFrieberg(still with hand face down)-I want to see your handI am surprised a player like Frieberg didnt call it on him Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Only a f@g and a sorry poker player asks to see another mans hand. And if youre not involved in the hand, then youre a double f@g. If a man mucks, take it down and shut your hole. That rule was only created to protect against cheating, not to let you know what you got called with... Im feeling that thats what this thread was kinda about since Ive been hearing people say they think Gold was cheating... But Im just pointing that out. Cuz im sure a lot of people here ask to see other players hands... if you do, youre prolly the douchebag wearing the hat, headphones and sunglasses I always see at my table. Link to post Share on other sites
mhoward29 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Funny story concerning this same topic, but in a cash game...$10/$20 limit at my local casino. Two players on the river. Player 1 bets, player 2 calls and at the same time flips up his hand. Player 1 says "its good" and goes to muck. Before player 1 can muck, player 2 asks to see his losing hand. Player 1 flipped up his hand and it was the winner! He didnt realize he had a straight againest player 2's top pair. But because player 2 was in the hand and asked to see player 2's cards his hand was still live. If another player that folded some point in the hand before the river asked to see player 1's cards his hand would be dead even if it was the winner (that is, if player 1 says he has the loser and is in the process of mucking).And yes, it is HORRIBLE FORM and you will be known as the table as$hole if you do it.Oh, also it was a pretty decent sized pot and Player 2 ended up tilting from it and lost 3 buy-ins. It was my friend that was player 2 and after the game I really laid into him for asking to see a losing hand. He hasnt done it since. Link to post Share on other sites
kes1981 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Your half right on this one. If a player asks to see a hand, the dealer is obliged to show it. However, if the cards touch the muck, the dealer can't show them. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 depends on where you play, if someone demands to see my hand and i toss it into the muck the hand is dead enough said, once it touches the muck its dead. Link to post Share on other sites
TheCorporation3 0 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 If Force mucks his hand he is giving up the hand even if Friberg has nothing. (Edit) OK Im 90 % sure he doesnt have to show... Ive been in this situation live when ive asked for a person to show and they threw there cards into the muck. If I'm wrong then lots of dealers dont have the rule right either.You're wrong, the Casinos and players you go to are just bad. If you are the bettor, and you get called, you have to show. PERIOD. In fact, if I called your bet I wont even show my hand until the bettor does. AND, if he doesn't want to show, then I will request the hand to be shown.Only a f@g and a sorry poker player asks to see another mans hand. And if youre not involved in the hand, then youre a double f@g. If a man mucks, take it down and shut your hole. That rule was only created to protect against cheating, not to let you know what you got called with... Im feeling that thats what this thread was kinda about since Ive been hearing people say they think Gold was cheating... But Im just pointing that out. Cuz im sure a lot of people here ask to see other players hands... if you do, youre prolly the douchebag wearing the hat, headphones and sunglasses I always see at my table.We are talking about when Villian is the bettor, and you call him. Fag. Link to post Share on other sites
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