Daniel Is A Whiny Sock Puppet

[dukerools 0]

I watched Daniel's Vblog with increasing dismay. His attack on Raymer and the other players who refuse to roll over for the WPT is both stupid and hypocritical. When the the WSOP, in full accord with the stated policy of changing the tourneys, screwed Dn, he said he would boycott unless his 2K was refunded. Yet, when others object to being requred to to sign a release which could cost them far more, DN classes them as greedy and ungrateful. DN sees the WPT as good for him, so he defends it regardless of the merits. He is not a lawyer, and unless he hires one to analyze the merits of the lawsuit, he is simply saying that he is better off if no one challenges the status quo. All labor organizations have had to deal with those who feel that management has done them right, after all if Henry Ford had not created the assembly line, many of the auto workers would not have had jobs. That does not mean the UAW organizers were wrong to fight for better wages and conditions. Under DN's theory, the workers should have been grateful to have a job.Hopefully, DN will rethink his position, and stop beng a stooge for management.

[HangukMiguk 8]

one more thread about the same subject never hurts.

[Golden 2]

This is getting re-goddamn-diculous.....General sucks. That is all.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Man, if you only knew what was at stake dude, seriously. This is much, much bigger than a petty lawsuit. I can't publicly state the reasons why this is such a lose-lose situation for all, but there is obviously one key element that these seven players seem to think is "no big deal." They are wrong... they are way wrong, and lots of us could suffer because of this lawsuit.

[AceJackOffS 0]

This is getting re-goddamn-diculous.....General sucks. That is all.

[DanielSon 0]

Wow dude, if you watched that video blog and still feel that way, then you are just ignorant and I feel sorry for you...When I watched it all i did was

[Golden 2]

Man, if you only knew what was at stake dude, seriously. This is much, much bigger than a petty lawsuit. I can't publicly state the reasons why this is such a lose-lose situation for all, but there is obviously one key element that these seven players seem to think is "no big deal." They are wrong... they are way wrong, and lots of us could suffer because of this lawsuit.

I suppose this thread is legit now that you have posted in it, but the amount threads on this one subject is getting out of control....

[wontbez 0]

Man, if you only knew what was at stake dude, seriously. This is much, much bigger than a petty lawsuit. I can't publicly state the reasons why this is such a lose-lose situation for all, but there is obviously one key element that these seven players seem to think is "no big deal." They are wrong... they are way wrong, and lots of us could suffer because of this lawsuit.

DN, I understand what you are saying, but this is where you not being a lawyer comes into play. I agree with what Raymer says in this post and I think you are looking at this issue in such a negitive frame of mind, that you are failing to see the positive outcome that could come from this. Also, you say that this will shed a negitive light on poker, I would like to know in who's mind will this apear negitive? I assume you are talking about the law makers in this country, if that is the case, I wouldn't worry too much about them, they have already let us know what they think about online poker. If anything this is bringing poker into the American business light and puts it out in the open, which in my opinoin is better then keeping everything a big secret which is what online poker has seemed to become. "I do not see any legal basis by which the WPT can bring any online site into this lawsuit in any manner whatsoever. They will likely ask us during any depositions about the activity of our respective sites that we the Plaintiffs represent, and the answers will be that these sites have nothing to do with the lawsuit. With that being the case, I do not see any way that the judge would rule that the WPT could bring the online sites into the case as either parties or witnesses. You can't drag somebody into an existing lawsuit without some evidence that they are involved. You don't necessarily need a lot of evidence, but you must have something. In this case, there is nothing I know of that would give the WPT the standing to attack the online sites."

[TheCinciKid 0]

Man, if you only knew what was at stake dude, seriously. This is much, much bigger than a petty lawsuit. I can't publicly state the reasons why this is such a lose-lose situation for all, but there is obviously one key element that these seven players seem to think is "no big deal." They are wrong... they are way wrong, and lots of us could suffer because of this lawsuit.

Right now I'd have a tendency to side with the players bringing the lawsuit. From everything I've read the WPT waiver is absurd and should be changed. However, I could be convinced by the right argument. The bolded part above and everything else you've said so far have been much to vague to convince me. I say this with the utmost respect. I'm a reasonable rational person and so far nothing I've heard from you on this subject has sounded all that reasonable or rational, it has simply been a series of rants about how bad this could be for poker and how you've "talked to lawyers who agree." If you could explain to me what is at stake, maybe I'd truly be convinced.

[dirtystacks 0]

If you could explain to me what is at stake, maybe I'd truly be convinced.

I believe he is talking about some of the questionable practices that those 7 engage in related to poker sites/etc. In the current 'do something about poker' political climate, it seems like bringing attention to deals where people like the Full Tilt crew profit directly from online gambling sites is less than ideal. I assume (of course I could be wrong) that he believes these deals will be relevant and come to light during the litigation. If there's a media buzz about the suit, then stuff like this will show up in papers. Politicians will look at it and add laws to pending bills...you can figure out the rest.However, honestly, there is so much speculation that goes into all of this. I mean, the WPT will probably just settle with the players. We'll see their pleadings in a week, regardless. This lawsuit won't go anywhere during the discovery period. It will probably settle with a non-disclosure agreement on the settlement terms. Then the release will be changed. From his blog, I think Daniel really thinks the release, although it appears to be bad, is effectively not really a big deal. So, in the end, best case they get the release changed, which isn't a huge win anyway. Worst case, there's a bunch of publicity, these deals come to light, politicians take notice, everything goes to hell and they shut down online poker. This, in turn, reduces field sizes for tournaments and demand for programming and basically turns poker into the back alley game it used to be. Or something like that.Hopefully that doesn't happen until after I win one of those stars sunday million tournaments.

[stevedar 0]

The things at stake in my eyes are:If you win and cripple the wpt that means destroying the leading way to get camera time which translates into extra revenue.Secondly, the 7 are claiming financial loss as far as I can tell due to lost endorsements, etc which opens the tax records for all to see. I'm sure that there is a fair amount of creative bookkeeping involved as far as most poker players. Players routinely stake with chips in a casino then get paid cash...this bypasses taxes since they didn't pay for their winnings which they lent out. This can even be seen online as I saw dags lend singer 20k which was to be paid back in cash...bypassing the taxman. Also, as far as internet poker is concerned, there is alot to worry about. Financial records would then show the amount of money that some of the players are making off of it. For endorsers this probably isn't a big deal, but for "owners" of the sites the financial records would clearly show that they are more involved than just lending a name.For instance Ferguson's records would show ownership income from Full Tilt if I'm not mistaken. The guy from betonsports recently was arrested while changing planes. It could be possible that you see him and the others owning full tilt facing criminal charges as a result of this. DN too for that matter.

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

Right now I'd have a tendency to side with the players bringing the lawsuit. From everything I've read the WPT waiver is absurd and should be changed. However, I could be convinced by the right argument. The bolded part above and everything else you've said so far have been much to vague to convince me. I say this with the utmost respect. I'm a reasonable rational person and so far nothing I've heard from you on this subject has sounded all that reasonable or rational, it has simply been a series of rants about how bad this could be for poker and how you've "talked to lawyers who agree." If you could explain to me what is at stake, maybe I'd truly be convinced.

i also find daniels argument a bit hazey. Its all "i cant share this with you, but i have talked to lawers, and TRUST ME, i know this is bad". a bit more detail would be cool.

[Yoda 1]

DN alluded to the issue that is going to hurt a lot of people if this goes to court. Online poker. The ungrateful 7 are not going to be happy when the WPT pulls out all the stops on them in court. They may not want to bring it up, but you can bet it is going to be in the spotlight. These 7 are going to throw everybody into the fire.

[Tantalar 0]

Because if online poker becomes illegal, FCP will be shut down. Becuase right now, its a shakey at best situation, where all of a sudden, it COULD be illegal to play online poker. And MAYBE there could be a retroactive punishment for the big name people. But thats why i use the word MAYBE... becuase I have no idea. Remember though... DN isnt going to publically announce that he is doing something that could be illegal. Its sort of like how we all have home games at home. We arent going to Advertise them becuase they are illegal (At least in CT)

[rivergirl 2]

To the OP,(Daniel please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong or if anything offends) The impression i get is that Daniel just feels that by these 7 bringing a lawsuit against the WPT is the bad idea here. I don't really think it has anything to do with either of the parties or what the issues are. I think it's just that with the US looking to ban internet poker, it's giving politicians more ammunition. Why choose now to throw gasoline on the fire....it's already ripping through the forrest on its own. I don't think he has expressed an opinion of who is right or wrong on the issues of the suit, just that the manner and timing of things is not right.Like i stated, this is how i've interpreted DN's view, if it's wrong i apologize and please correct.

[nosoul 0]

I think DN's hinting at the legality of endorsing an online poker site. It would be quite interesting if the discovery phase of the lawsuit ends up generating criminal charges against the 7 for their endorsement of online sites. Or, depending on the records, tax evasion. Which would suck for them.

[Switchblade 0]

Regardless there are so many threads about this now.The Mods need to like merge all topics into one and close down any new ones that open up.It is getting rediculous. I think a lot of people are in the blue like most since we aren't "Lawyers" but seriously who cares? We can get information from whoever we want.

[speedz99 145]

I think DN's hinting at the legality of endorsing an online poker site. It would be quite interesting if the discovery phase of the lawsuit ends up generating criminal charges against the 7 for their endorsement of online sites. Or, depending on the records, tax evasion. Which would suck for them.

Do you really think a group of people that smart wouldn't have thought of this?

[wontbez 0]

Because if online poker becomes illegal, FCP will be shut down. Becuase right now, its a shakey at best situation, where all of a sudden, it COULD be illegal to play online poker. And MAYBE there could be a retroactive punishment for the big name people. But thats why i use the word MAYBE... becuase I have no idea. Remember though... DN isnt going to publically announce that he is doing something that could be illegal. Its sort of like how we all have home games at home. We arent going to Advertise them becuase they are illegal (At least in CT)

The lawsuit has nothing to do with any online sites. You can't just bring up something in court because you want to, the wpt would have to prove that online sites in some way have something to do with this case and from reading the complaint, they don't!I want to give you an example of one of the things they're fighting against here. Lets say you win a WPT event, you are a major player now and there are all kinds of deals for you right? Well lets say that Hustler wants to use your image to promote it's product. Being a good Christian that you are, you decline because you don't condone Hustler. If you signed the WPT release, all Hustler would have to do is go to the WPT and pay them a fee and the WPT can relase your image to Huster to use for what ever they want. In my opinon, that sucks and is not a fair business practice.