Religion And Relationships

[vonteego3 0]

Here's a little... uhh... hypothetical situation, we'll say. Two people have met recently, and immediately hit it off. They've spent a few nights hanging out together talking, have a clear mutual interest in each other, and plans to go out real soon. The topic of religion has only popped up in passing once, with just a reference from the woman... we'll call her Susan... about going to church. Through the wonders of the internet, the man... let's call him Al... discovers that religion is in fact a very central part of Susan's life. Al, however, not only isn't a follower of the same religion, but doesn't even believe in God. He's not your stereotypical atheist, though... his personal belief is that there is no God, but he has no issue at all with those who do believe, and no interest in convincing them to change their minds.Susan doesn't yet know of Al's beliefs, or lack thereof. She's a very smart person... she doesn't seem at all judgemental to Al, but then again, he hasn't known her very long. Now we come to the questions.1) If you're Al, do you bring it up right away, or do you wait and let it come out on its own naturally?2) If you're Susan (and I know the description is vague), is this a dealbreaker? If you take a minute to answer, let me know a little about your beliefs if you'll share so I know where to tell... Al... that the advice is coming from.

[Petoria 0]

Here's a little... uhh... hypothetical situation, we'll say. Two people have met recently, and immediately hit it off. They've spent a few nights hanging out together talking, have a clear mutual interest in each other, and plans to go out real soon. The topic of religion has only popped up in passing once, with just a reference from the woman... we'll call her Susan... about going to church. Through the wonders of the internet, the man... let's call him Al... discovers that religion is in fact a very central part of Susan's life. Al, however, not only isn't a follower of the same religion, but doesn't even believe in God. He's not your stereotypical atheist, though... his personal belief is that there is no God, but he has no issue at all with those who do believe, and no interest in convincing them to change their minds.Susan doesn't yet know of Al's beliefs, or lack thereof. She's a very smart person... she doesn't seem at all judgemental to Al, but then again, he hasn't known her very long. Now we come to the questions.1) If you're Al, do you bring it up right away, or do you wait and let it come out on its own naturally?2) If you're Susan (and I know the description is vague), is this a dealbreaker? If you take a minute to answer, let me know a little about your beliefs if you'll share so I know where to tell... Al... that the advice is coming from.

Theres an atheist stereotype? wow, i never knew that we're supposed to be preachy, how ironic. In my experience, atheists don't usually talk about religion because it is a non-issue for them.1) I let it come along naturally. If you weren't really into her, then bring it up right away. 2) I tried, but there really isnt enough informatiion. Too many unknown factors, and it differs from person to person.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Theres an atheist stereotype? wow, i never knew that we're supposed to be preachy, how ironic. In my experience, atheists don't usually talk about religion because it is a non-issue for them.1) I let it come along naturally. If you weren't really into her, then bring it up right away. 2) I tried, but there really isnt enough informatiion. Too many unknown factors, and it differs from person to person.

Not that it can speak for the entire population of athiests..but have you read this forum?

[mtdesmoines 3]

Interpretation one: If things are as you described, you have no business in this relationship, and she would have no interest in you if she knew the truth. Period. She's looking for things you can't give her, and you're looking for things you shouldn't take from her under these circumstances. Interpretation two: Well hey, since you don't believe in God, you don't believe in Hell, right? So just do what makes you feel good and don't worry about the consequences. We're all just messed up almagamations of organic matter on one pale blue cosmic dot in a cold, dark universe. Rock on, dude.

[Petoria 0]

Not that it can speak for the entire population of athiests..but have you read this forum?

Thats the point of a forum though, to argue about random **** and never accomplish anything. In real life, I've never met a preachy atheist.

[mtdesmoines 3]

It's only very loosely related, but someone just sent me this and I thought of this thread: Girlfriend 6.0 vs. Wife 1.0 -Comparative Analysis Last year a friend of mine upgraded from GirlFriend 6.0 to Wife 1.0 and found that it's a memory hog leaving very little system resources available for other applications. He is now noticing that Wife 1.0 is also spawning Child Processes which are further consuming valuable resources. No mention of this particular phenomena was included in the product brochure or the documentation, though other users have informed him that this is to be expected due to the nature of the application. Not only that, Wife 1.0 installs itself such that it is always launched at system initialization, where it can monitor all other system activity. He's finding that some applications such as PokerNight 10.3, BeerBash 2.5, and PubNight 7.0 are no longer able to run in the system at all, crashing the system when selected (even though they always worked fine before). During installation, Wife 1.0 provides no option as to the installation of undesired Plug-Ins such as MotherInLaw 55.8 and BrotherInLaw Beta release. Also, system performance seems to diminish with each passing day. Some features he'd like to see in the upcoming wife 2.0. 1. a "Don't remind me again" button 2. a Minimize button 3. An install shield feature that allows Wife 2.0 be installed with the option to uninstall at any time without the loss of cache and other system resources 4. An option to run the network driver in promiscuous mode which would allow the system's hardware probe feature to be much more useful. I myself decided to avoid the headaches associated with Wife 1.0 by sticking with Girlfriend 7.0. Even here, however, I found many problems. Apparently you cannot install Girlfriend 7.0 on top of Girlfriend 6.0. You must uninstall Girlfriend 6.0 first. Other users say this is a long standing bug that I should have known about. Apparently the versions of Girlfriend have conficts over shared use of the I/O port. You think they would have fixed such a stupid bug by now. To make matters worse, The uninstall program for Girlfriend 6.0 doesn't work very well leaving undesirable traces of the application in the system. Another thing -- all versions of Girlfriend continually popup little annoying messages about the advantages of upgrading to Wife 1.0. Bug WarningWife 1.0 has an undocumented bug. If you try to install Mistress 1.1 before uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.1 will refuse to install, claiming insufficient resources. Bug work-arounds: To avoid this bug, try installing Mistress 1.1 on a different system and never run any file transfer applications such as Laplink 6.0. Also, beware of similar shareware applications that have been known to carry viruses that may affect Wife 1.0. Another solution would be to run Mistress 1.1 via a UseNet provider under an anonymous name. Here again, beware of the viruses which can accidently be downloaded from the UseNet. Tech Support SuggestionsThese are very common problem men complain about, but is mostly due to a primary misconception. Many people upgrade from Girlfriend 6.0 to Wife 1.0 with the idea that Wife 1.0 is merely a Utilities & Entertainment program. Wife 1.0 is indeed an operating system and designed by its creator to run everything. It is unlikely you would be able to purge Wife 1.0 and still convert back to Girlfriend 6.0. Hidden operating files within your system would cause Girlfriend 6.0 to emulate Wife 1.0 so nothing is gained. It is impossible to uninstall, delete, or purge the program files from the system once installed. You cannot go back to Girlfriend 6.0 because Wife 1.0 is not designed to do this. Some have tried to install Girlfriend 7.0 or Wife 2.0 but end up with more problems than the original system. Look in your manual under "Warnings - Alimony/Child support". I recommend you keep Wife 1.0 and deal with the situation. I suggest installing background application program C:\YES DEAR to alleviate software augmentation. Having installed Wife 1.0 myself, I might also suggest you read the entire section regarding General Partnership Faults (GPFs). You must assume all responsibility for faults and problems that might occur, regardless of their cause. The best course of action will be to enter the command C:\APOLOGIZE. In any case avoid excessive use of C:\YES DEAR because ultimately you may have to give the APOLOGIZE command before the operating system will return to normal. The system will run smoothly as long as you take the blame for all the GPFs. Wife 1.0 is a great program, but very high-maintenance. Consider buying additional software to improve the performance of Wife 1.0. I recommend Flowers 3.1 and Diamonds 2K. Do not, under any circumstances, install Secretary with Short Skirt 3.3. This is not a supported application for Wife 1.0 and is likely to cause irreversible damage to the operating system. Best of Luck, Tech Support

[FOOSE1 0]

Here's a little... uhh... hypothetical situation, we'll say. Two people have met recently, and immediately hit it off. They've spent a few nights hanging out together talking, have a clear mutual interest in each other, and plans to go out real soon. The topic of religion has only popped up in passing once, with just a reference from the woman... we'll call her Susan... about going to church. Through the wonders of the internet, the man... let's call him Al... discovers that religion is in fact a very central part of Susan's life. Al, however, not only isn't a follower of the same religion, but doesn't even believe in God. He's not your stereotypical atheist, though... his personal belief is that there is no God, but he has no issue at all with those who do believe, and no interest in convincing them to change their minds.Susan doesn't yet know of Al's beliefs, or lack thereof. She's a very smart person... she doesn't seem at all judgemental to Al, but then again, he hasn't known her very long. Now we come to the questions.1) If you're Al, do you bring it up right away, or do you wait and let it come out on its own naturally?2) If you're Susan (and I know the description is vague), is this a dealbreaker? If you take a minute to answer, let me know a little about your beliefs if you'll share so I know where to tell... Al... that the advice is coming from.

1) If I were . . . umm Al . . . I wouldn't necessarily bring it up out of the blue. Just get to know her, spend time with her. If the topic comes up, then I think Al should be totally honest about his beliefs . . . or lack thereof.2) Is this a dealbreaker? It really depends on what type of person she really is. If she is a TRUE Christian . . . then she has no right to judge you and will act as such. With that said, she may want to share her beliefs with you which you must be . . . I mean Al must be . . . willing to listen to. People make religion, or belief in GOD out to be this horrible thing and think that Christians only associate with other Christians. That is so far from the truth. I am a Christian. All my friends are not. I have friends that are atheists, agnostics and yes Christians. I don't judge them and they don't judge me. Period. If you (Al) like this girl . . . get to know her. Don't let religion be a road block. It shouldn't be. You would be surprised at the number of married couples I personally know where one is a Christian, while the other is not. Remember, it's a personal choice.

[mtdesmoines 3]

1) If I were . . . umm Al . . . I wouldn't necessarily bring it up out of the blue. Just get to know her, spend time with her. If the topic comes up, then I think Al should be totally honest about his beliefs . . . or lack thereof.2) Is this a dealbreaker? It really depends on what type of person she really is. If she is a TRUE Christian . . . then she has no right to judge you and will act as such. With that said, she may want to share her beliefs with you which you must be . . . I mean Al must be . . . willing to listen to. People make religion, or belief in GOD out to be this horrible thing and think that Christians only associate with other Christians. That is so far from the truth. I am a Christian. All my friends are not. I have friends that are atheists, agnostics and yes Christians. I don't judge them and they don't judge me. Period. If you (Al) like this girl . . . get to know her. Don't let religion be a road block. It shouldn't be. You would be surprised at the number of married couples I personally know where one is a Christian, while the other is not. Remember, it's a personal choice.

Right. Hide your beliefs and build a relationship on lies by omission, then; when caught; use her own beliefs against her to justify your lies. Rock on, dude. Note: ... "she has no right to judge you" references one of the most misquoted scriptures in the Bible. The verse does NOT read: "judge not," ... rather, it reads "judge not, lest ye be judged." Philosophies vary about the meaning of that, but to me it is a caution that says that you can go ahead and be judgemental as long as you understand and accept people being judgemental of you.

[vonteego3 0]

1) If I were . . . umm Al . . . I wouldn't necessarily bring it up out of the blue. Just get to know her, spend time with her. If the topic comes up, then I think Al should be totally honest about his beliefs . . . or lack thereof.2) Is this a dealbreaker? It really depends on what type of person she really is. If she is a TRUE Christian . . . then she has no right to judge you and will act as such. With that said, she may want to share her beliefs with you which you must be . . . I mean Al must be . . . willing to listen to. People make religion, or belief in GOD out to be this horrible thing and think that Christians only associate with other Christians. That is so far from the truth. I am a Christian. All my friends are not. I have friends that are atheists, agnostics and yes Christians. I don't judge them and they don't judge me. Period. If you (Al) like this girl . . . get to know her. Don't let religion be a road block. It shouldn't be. You would be surprised at the number of married couples I personally know where one is a Christian, while the other is not. Remember, it's a personal choice.

Damn, you caught me. Okay, it's me.I'm not at all thinking of religion as a roadblock from my point of view. In fact, I think I prefer a different outlook... I'm already me, I don't need to date me. I'm concerned about how a strongly religious girl will view someone who doesn't believe in the existence of a central aspect of her life. Optimistically speaking, I see her as a very level-headed person, able to see what's good and what isn't regardless of faith.

Right. Hide your beliefs and build a relationship on lies by omission, then; when caught; use her own beliefs against her to justify your lies. Rock on, dude. Note: ... "she has no right to judge you" references one of the most misquoted scriptures in the Bible. The verse does NOT read: "judge not," ... rather, it reads "judge not, lest ye be judged." Philosophies vary about the meaning of that, but to me it is a caution that says that you can go ahead and be judgemental as long as you understand and accept people being judgemental of you.

You're a very bitter person, aren't you?

[Loismustdie 0]

It's bad news bears, dude. Get out now.

[FOOSE1 0]

Right. Hide your beliefs and build a relationship on lies by omission, then; when caught; use her own beliefs against her to justify your lies. Rock on, dude. Note: ... "she has no right to judge you" references one of the most misquoted scriptures in the Bible. The verse does NOT read: "judge not," ... rather, it reads "judge not, lest ye be judged." Philosophies vary about the meaning of that, but to me it is a caution that says that you can go ahead and be judgemental as long as you understand and accept people being judgemental of you.

You're a moron. I didn't say he should hide his beliefs. I just don't think it is such a big deal that the next time he sees her the first thing he says is, "hey guess what . . . I don't believe in GOD". I told him to be honest when the topic comes up.As far as the meaning of that scripture . . . give me a break. The bible is very clear that GOD is the only one that has the right to judge us. My point was . . . If she is a true Christian she will not judge him based on the fact that he doesn't believe in GOD.You always like to twist things people say and argue for no reason so I won't waste my time with you.OP . . . Good Luck . . . I hope it works out well.

[Canada 0]

You're a moron. I didn't say he should hide his beliefs. I just don't think it is such a big deal that the next time he sees her the first thing he says is, "hey guess what . . . I don't believe in GOD". I told him to be honest when the topic comes up.As far as the meaning of that scripture . . . give me a break. The bible is very clear that GOD is the only one that has the right to judge us. My point was . . . If she is a true Christian she will not judge him based on the fact that he doesn't believe in GOD.You always like to twist things people say and argue for no reason so I won't waste my time with you.OP . . . Good Luck . . . I hope it works out well.

Well said

[Petoria 0]

You're a moron. I didn't say he should hide his beliefs. I just don't think it is such a big deal that the next time he sees her the first thing he says is, "hey guess what . . . I don't believe in GOD". I told him to be honest when the topic comes up.As far as the meaning of that scripture . . . give me a break. The bible is very clear that GOD is the only one that has the right to judge us. My point was . . . If she is a true Christian she will not judge him based on the fact that he doesn't believe in GOD.You always like to twist things people say and argue for no reason so I won't waste my time with you.OP . . . Good Luck . . . I hope it works out well.

Christians not judging people is just about as likely to happen as all lions suddenly becoming vegetarians.

[JadeTiger 0]

personally I think if it was that big of a concern for her in the first place, it would have come up by now. Most christians I know looking for a christian relationship will bring it up somehow. the question is what are you looking for? most christians are looking for a life partner or at least someone they can share their lives with for some extended period of time. If she isnt looking for that then you may be in luck but I dont know many christians who are just looking for 'roll in the hay'. (If she is serious about it...there are plenty of self professed christians who rarely express it in their daily activities.) It sounds to me that you have gotten the vibe that her faith in God is really strong and that it is a big part of her life. I might want to dig deeper into that and at least show interest. I mean if you are truly attracted to her then I would put up a wall at religion, it sounds like its a big part of who she is. If its that big of a problem when its brought up, well then there is answer. Just remember if you are looking for a 'roll in the hay', there are plenty of agnostic hotties out there, and if you want something real and lasting good luck to you, its not easy for anyone (finding a 'soulmate'...if you believe in such things!)

Christians not judging people is just about as likely to happen as all lions suddenly becoming vegetarians.

are you saying ALL christians are judgmental? Thats interesting.

[speedz99 145]

Bring it up soon. Have a long, and EXTREMELY clear discussion about it.You need to find out now whether this will be a huge roadblock for you in the future. Seriously. Weddings, how to raise kids, what to do on holidays etc...find out now if you'll be a good match.

[Petoria 0]

are you saying ALL christians are judgmental? Thats interesting.

No thats not what I'm saying. It was a joke, hence the " ". Cant deny that many Christians are judgmental though.

[JadeTiger 0]

No thats not what I'm saying. It was a joke, hence the " ". Cant deny that many Christians are judgmental though.

yeah televangelists, stereotypes and legalistic believers dont help the stigma, ill give you that. But we arent all bad. DN is a christian, he seems pretty cool.

[speedz99 145]

yeah televangelists, stereotypes and legalistic believers dont help the stigma, ill give you that. But we arent all bad. DN is a christian, he seems pretty cool.

To be honest, my experience has shown non-judgemental Christians to be the exception, not the rule.That's why I always found the "judge not" passage to be so ironical.Of course that doesn't mean you are all bad, or even that the judgemental ones are bad people in general. It just means the way Christianity is taught seems to convince most Christians that they have the right to judge anyone that doesn't agree with their beliefs.

[JadeTiger 0]

To be honest, my experience has shown non-judgemental Christians to be the exception, not the rule.That's why I always found the "judge not" passage to be so ironical.Of course that doesn't mean you are all bad, or even that the judgemental ones are bad people in general. It just means the way Christianity is taught seems to convince most Christians that they have the right to judge anyone that doesn't agree with their beliefs.

Well I can tell you one thing is for sure that is NOT what the bible teaches. the problem seems to be that the pursuit of holiness or the biblical life sometimes means seperating yourself from some worldy things. Sometimes that rubs people the wrong way and sometimes that person just goes about it in the wrong way. i.e. some christian will tell non-believers that living with/and having sex with their girlfriend/boyfriend is wrong in an attempt to lead them to Christ, but forgets that pointing out to someone who doesnt believe what you believe, that what you think is sin, is sin, well it just doesnt click, and why should it?I would never go up to a gay person and say you are gay and that is wrong because God says so. I would approach them with love and point out that all sin is equal in the eyes of God and that ive been saved from my sin just as he can be saved from his, whatever it may be (whether its a tendency to steal, or lie, or any of the other things the Bible declares as sinful.)Ive found that while most people have good intentions the few that fleck the flock with misconstrued ideas of what Jesus was all about, tend to cause more damage than good. All we can do is try and represent Christ the best we know how and hopefully not pass judgment in the process. God is the Judge not me and not you.

[speedz99 145]

God is the Judge not me and not you.

Ok, here's the thing. You believe that the Bible tells you everything you need to know about what is right and wrong in life. You think that these are God's words and that through them he tells us how to live our lives with the least amount of sin possible. Or something along those lines.But I (and many others) don't believe that the Bible is the word of God. So when you tell me I'm a sinner, I consider that to be YOU judging me for my actions, not some invisible man in the sky using you as his mouthpiece.

[JadeTiger 0]

Ok, here's the thing. You believe that the Bible tells you everything you need to know about what is right and wrong in life. You think that these are God's words and that through them he tells us how to live our lives with the least amount of sin possible. Or something along those lines.But I (and many others) don't believe that the Bible is the word of God. So when you tell me I'm a sinner, I consider that to be YOU judging me for my actions, not some invisible man in the sky using you as his mouthpiece.

Very understandble. I dont expect anyone who doesnt believe the bible to believe or listen to what i say. And to that person I say may you find your own way. I think God is powerful enough to change anyone's heart. Again its not my role to try and 'talk' you into believing what i believe, but simply to let you know where i stand and maybe from my life I can be some sort of witness of God's love. Now thank God for forgiveness otherwise id be screwed. Im far from perfect and never claimed to be and have to remember everyday that fact. If I were to ever get haughty or self righteous in anyway that would be a sin against God! Not all Christian approach non-believers this way and probably why you are as jaded as you are, and understandably so. Just dont right us all off. We arent all bad, and some of us actually have a lot to offer just as you have a lot to offer me. I never write anyone off because God doesnt. Everyone has something to offer from their own unique experiences in life and I am open to that. Judgement is something I have had experience with in my past and so i am the last one to judge anyone else...Though we all judge to some degree. None of us is perfect.

[speedz99 145]

Very understandble. I dont expect anyone who doesnt believe the bible to believe or listen to what i say. And to that person I say may you find your own way. I think God is powerful enough to change anyone's heart. Again its not my role to try and 'talk' you into believing what i believe, but simply to let you know where i stand and maybe from my life I can be some sort of witness of God's love. Now thank God for forgiveness otherwise id be screwed. Im far from perfect and never claimed to be and have to remember everyday that fact. If I were to ever get haughty or self righteous in anyway that would be a sin against God! Not all Christian approach non-believers this way and probably why you are as jaded as you are, and understandably so. Just dont right us all off. We arent all bad, and some of us actually have a lot to offer just as you have a lot to offer me. I never write anyone off because God doesnt. Everyone has something to offer from their own unique experiences in life and I am open to that. Judgement is something I have had experience with in my past and so i am the last one to judge anyone else...Though we all judge to some degree. None of us is perfect.

I'm only jaded when it comes to the judgemental/irrational people I mentioned. You're obviously not like that.People like you give me hope that religion isn't completely worthless.

[JadeTiger 0]

I'm only jaded when it comes to the judgemental/irrational people I mentioned. You're obviously not like that.People like you give me hope that religion isn't completely worthless.

well as long as all of keep an open mind and learn to listen to one another and not be so stubborn and unteachable, I think God will be glorified. good luck to you.

[vonteego3 0]

personally I think if it was that big of a concern for her in the first place, it would have come up by now. Most christians I know looking for a christian relationship will bring it up somehow. the question is what are you looking for? most christians are looking for a life partner or at least someone they can share their lives with for some extended period of time. If she isnt looking for that then you may be in luck but I dont know many christians who are just looking for 'roll in the hay'. (If she is serious about it...there are plenty of self professed christians who rarely express it in their daily activities.) It sounds to me that you have gotten the vibe that her faith in God is really strong and that it is a big part of her life. I might want to dig deeper into that and at least show interest. I mean if you are truly attracted to her then I would put up a wall at religion, it sounds like its a big part of who she is. If its that big of a problem when its brought up, well then there is answer. Just remember if you are looking for a 'roll in the hay', there are plenty of agnostic hotties out there, and if you want something real and lasting good luck to you, its not easy for anyone (finding a 'soulmate'...if you believe in such things!)are you saying ALL christians are judgmental? Thats interesting.

Not at all what I'm aiming for. I'm looking for a girl exactly like this one is... just wondering what the chances are of my lack of religion outweighing the fact that I'm pretty much exactly how someone would describe the stereotypical "good christian guy", minus the whole believing-in-god thing.

[Loismustdie 0]

Well I can tell you one thing is for sure that is NOT what the bible teaches. the problem seems to be that the pursuit of holiness or the biblical life sometimes means seperating yourself from some worldy things. Sometimes that rubs people the wrong way and sometimes that person just goes about it in the wrong way. i.e. some christian will tell non-believers that living with/and having sex with their girlfriend/boyfriend is wrong in an attempt to lead them to Christ, but forgets that pointing out to someone who doesnt believe what you believe, that what you think is sin, is sin, well it just doesnt click, and why should it?I would never go up to a gay person and say you are gay and that is wrong because God says so. I would approach them with love and point out that all sin is equal in the eyes of God and that ive been saved from my sin just as he can be saved from his, whatever it may be (whether its a tendency to steal, or lie, or any of the other things the Bible declares as sinful.)Ive found that while most people have good intentions the few that fleck the flock with misconstrued ideas of what Jesus was all about, tend to cause more damage than good. All we can do is try and represent Christ the best we know how and hopefully not pass judgment in the process. God is the Judge not me and not you.

Yeah, in the bible God was really understanding when it came to sin. He never said it was his way or no way, ever., and when he did he surely didn't mean it. See, this is the new generation of religion that I cannot stand- it attempts to take away God's punch so to speak. Jesus said that he came to bring diversion, mother against the daughter, father against the son- God's word naturally creates gaps in between the right and the wrong, which is then construed as judgemental, when in reality a sinners sin judges for him. Yes, we are all sinners, and have fallen short of the glory of God, and if a man said he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him, all of these apply, but it does not give the true christian the right to attempt to strip God's word of what it was meant to be, and when this happens you end up with false christianity. A facsimile of christianity, but not christianity. I see you are from College Station. You happen to know Matt?