General Question On Moving Up Limts, Better Players, Etc

[dmb41 0]

I already knew it was coming but I don't think I was quite prepared for it. As more books come out and more people learn how to play, it is harder and harder for me to win money. Harder but not impossible and I am consistantly moving up the limits when I reach 300 x BB. Well, I am finally stuck I think and I am not sure where to go from here. I'm not going on tilt and I am not playing above my bankroll or anything. However, when ever I sit at a table it's getting really difficult for me to find the sucker at the table. I'm really only playing break even poker right now and my stats are identical to what they were when I was a 2.3BB/100 hands player.I guess my question is this. How do you tune your game to beat the "higher" middle limits (3/6, 5/10, etc). I feel like everybody at the table is more aggresive than me and almost everybody puts consistant pressure on you. I feel like it's throwing me off my game because I am usually the guy doing that. I am actually playing well below my bankroll right now to try to recover but it seems like even the lower limt games are semi tough to beat now a days.How you have managed to adjust and play near perfect poker with the players constantly getting better?

[GodOfEntropy 0]

I think table selection is very important - it is tough to beat the game when you have 5 TAG's sitting with you in a shorthanded game. I recommend looking for tables with the largest average pot size, then sit down and observe for a few orbits. If there is nobody giving action at the table, I would move along to the next table.

[dimseven 0]

I think table selection is very important - it is tough to beat the game when you have 5 TAG's sitting with you in a shorthanded game. I recommend looking for tables with the largest average pot size, then sit down and observe for a few orbits. If there is nobody giving action at the table, I would move along to the next table.

[Rasty 0]

I would agree with you - the mind-numbingly awful tables that just seem to have prayed to pookong for you to take their money are much rarer than they were even a year or two ago . . . but the players who want you to have a 911 coupe are still out there. Just takes a little extra lookin', aka table selection.

[dmb41 0]

Well my problem is I am a semi bonus whore so I don't always have the luxury of playing at Stars or Party and getting to choose a good table. I was clearing some bonuses at B2B and I tried WSEX considering they have 100% rakeback. I guess maybe I should just stick to Party where there are still some bad players.

[mmmikeySong 0]

there's always bad players at the low limits!are you multi tabling man? and most importantly, are you PAYING ATTENTION?! When I'm not doddling and browsing, and instead focusing on my tables, i'm always constantly writing down notes, figuring out betting patterns, and analyzing how the person played his hand - optimally, poorly, creatively.When doing that, I constantly notice who's worse than me.When moving up, try not to let the money get to you. Losing $200 at 1/2 isn't the same as losing $200 at 3/6 (100 big bets vs 33.33 big bets) Looking at it in bets rather than $$$ helps, also, don't be afraid to make plays once in awhile and going with your gut, and don't get stuck being a passive caller. Give action and take action You're there to make money, so do it.

[strategy 4]

I play 5/10 on WPX, Party, and UltimateBet. I had a pre-existing bankroll thanks to NLH tournaments, so I started at 1/2 and moved up when I felt comfortable doing so. I have a few friends that play in the bigger online games, and this is the advice they gave me:1. Get rakeback somewhere or play at WPX. The rake can keep you from winning at the lower limits. An explanation can be found here. Don't play cash games at PokerStars; they rarely give out bonuses and their cash game players are the best on the net.2. Game selection. As someone said above, average pot size is a good indicator of a good table. Another great trick is to play sessions at night. The games are much softer around 9PM EST - 2AM EST. Don't play with the smart, sober people in the middle of the day if you can avoid it. Find the drunkies.3. Read Small Stakes Hold'Em by Ed Miller. If you've already read it, re-read it. I first read it four months ago and recently re-read it, finding tons of holes in my game. I'm sure you'll have the same experience if it's been a while.The games are gradually getting tougher, but you should still be able to win if you do your homework and take the extra time at the beginning of your sessions to find the right games. Hope this helps.

[Zach6668 513]

I play 5/10 on WPX, Party, and UltimateBet. I had a pre-existing bankroll thanks to NLH tournaments, so I started at 1/2 and moved up when I felt comfortable doing so. I have a few friends that play in the bigger online games, and this is the advice they gave me:1. Get rakeback somewhere or play at WPX. The rake can keep you from winning at the lower limits. An explanation can be found here. Don't play cash games at PokerStars; they rarely give out bonuses and their cash game players are the best on the net.

If this is true, then I couldn't even imagine playing 1/2 SH anywhere else... these guys are AWFUL.

[strategy 4]

If this is true, then I couldn't even imagine playing 1/2 SH anywhere else... these guys are AWFUL.

I think most shorthanded players at any site below 5/10 are awful, honestly. Stars is generally a bit tougher than elsewhere, though, and you can usually find a better game at another site with rakeback.

[Zach6668 513]

Does anybody know what the game selection is like at WPEX for shorthanded games at 1/2 or 2/4?

[bascomeb 0]

I wouldn't exactly say Pokerstars players are the best on the net. The games are very beatable there

[strategy 4]

I wouldn't exactly say Pokerstars players are the best on the net. The games are very beatable there

There is a distinction between beatable and "hardest on the net." I'd agree that it's possible to turn a profit at Stars, but there are much easier marks out there.

[TheCinciKid 0]

I had a similar problem to that of the OP I think. I moved up to 3/6 SH after beating up on 2/4 for a little while. I hit a real good run of luck early, then a bad one that continued and I started to realize that it may not be all variance. I think the better players at 3/6 definitely were throwing me off my game. I really like Strategy's advice in this thread. I think a trip back through SSHE may be in order for me.

[kdogg 0]

There is a distinction between beatable and "hardest on the net." I'd agree that it's possible to turn a profit at Stars, but there are much easier marks out there.

The 6-max games on stars are pretty fishy, although I'm sure you're right that there are fishier games elsewhere.

[dmb41 0]

I appreciate all the feedback I have received thus far. I think maybe I should cut down on the number of tables I play at one time because I really don't have a lot of time to write down notes on players. I currently play anywhere between 6-8 tables at a time and I used to be able to play mainly ABC poker using PAHUD or GT+ and get all the info I would need to play. I also think I need to work on my play from the blinds because there is a ton of raises coming in from the CO or button when I am in the blinds and I'm not used to that either. I will keep you updated with my status. Thanks again.

[Abbaddabba 0]

3/6 and 5/10 are blind play heavy already, unless you manage to find the easier games around.Stealing a lot with tight players behind you is a given.But it's also important to recognize the people who frequently steal, but give up easily. You can 3bet them with a lot of hands that you may not even have defended the big blind with, as long as you stop once you show down something sketchy and he inevitably catches on.Some useful things to consider about steals also...if you're mutl tabling and you intend to steal if it's folded to you on the button for instance, you will get 3bet a LOT more if there is a big pause between the time the CO folds and the time you act. The reason for that is obvious - they recognize (or at least some will) that you didnt want to use the auto raise button because if there were limpers, you would have folded.You need to be quick with the buttons. It helps if the people behind you are competent enough to not open limp in late position, so you can safely use the raise button (and if it's raised in front, it'll give you the option to fold). The opposite is true if you want to be 3bet. Unlike the other part (3betting people who shrivel up when you push back), this is something that people arent likely to catch onto no matter how much you do it.

[dmb41 0]

3/6 and 5/10 are blind play heavy already, unless you manage to find the easier games around.Stealing a lot with tight players behind you is a given.But it's also important to recognize the people who frequently steal, but give up easily. You can 3bet them with a lot of hands that you may not even have defended the big blind with, as long as you stop once you show down something sketchy and he inevitably catches on.Some useful things to consider about steals also...if you're mutl tabling and you intend to steal if it's folded to you on the button for instance, you will get 3bet a LOT more if there is a big pause between the time the CO folds and the time you act. The reason for that is obvious - they recognize (or at least some will) that you didnt want to use the auto raise button because if there were limpers, you would have folded.You need to be quick with the buttons. It helps if the people behind you are competent enough to not open limp in late position, so you can safely use the raise button (and if it's raised in front, it'll give you the option to fold). The opposite is true if you want to be 3bet. Unlike the other part (3betting people who shrivel up when you push back), this is something that people arent likely to catch onto no matter how much you do it.

Yep, I think I have narrowed it down to my play from the blinds. I need to get much better at this. I have a really hard time dealing with highly aggresive people in late position and I'm in the blinds. If I pick up a half way decent hand like A9 I will 3 bet but I usually find myself stuck if I don't hit the flop and get called. Then I have to decide whether to fire again on the turn. If I'm called on the turn and still have ace high I usually check on the river and almost 100% of the time they bet. Now I have a decision if I should be calling with ace high on a medium sized pot. I guess I just have a really hard time putting a highly aggresive late position raiser on a hand and I hate playing out of position.