Top Pair Checkraised On River

[BuffDan 0]

So, I know that SSHE always talks about how it is usually a good idea to call the river for one bet and such, but I think I have taken this to the other extreme and have been calling way too many rivers. Now this may be just playing results, ie remembering hands where I have called that extra bet and been beat, but it seems like the river checkraise is not often a bluff or a hand beaten by top pair, second kicker. So, that said, is this a place where I should have folded (I think value betting here is ok, but maybe I should have just checked behind as well, though I realize the knowledge of his raise may affect anwers to this). I guess the question is in general which hands I should be folding on the river to either a checkraise or a bet in front of me, and whether this hand is one of them. I was new to the table, so no read on villain, btw.Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, K. UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (9 SB) 4, T, Q(4 players)SB checks, UTG checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, UTG folds, MP3 calls.Turn: (6.50 BB) J(2 players)MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls.River: (8.50 BB) 5(2 players)MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.Final Pot: 12.50 BB

[LongLiveYorke 38]

No, don't fold, not close. This is .50/1 and we are not interested in making courageous river folds getting almost 12 to 1. Remember, he only has to flip over something idiotic about 1 in 11 or 12 for us to break even. From a meta game perspective, we don't want to be bluffed out of a lot of pots with top pair on the river. Though at .50/1 party our opponents are most likely chimpanzees taking breaks from writing Shakespeare and are not paying attention, we still don't want to raise every street and fold to one bet on the river. That's bad and it looks bad. Just click call and say to yourself "one in ten, one in ten, one in ten..."

[Actuary 3]

I like every streetEvery betEvery callnh.ps. EVERYONE who has ever played LHE wonders if they call too many c/r's. Usually on the turn, but river as well. It feels so dirty; but it's a worse hand more than 1/10, unless you have a dead read..and that means you've PLAYED 500+ hands with him and never see a bluff, kinda dead read.***********wonder if Screech will say : It's not a bluff, he knows you will call. Fold.Or if our hand is still strong enough to call.

[RISEorFall 0]

I like every streetEvery betEvery callme too. NHwonder if Screech will say : It's not a bluff, he knows you will call. Fold.I think i said this before, but at .5/1, people dont "know" anything. he doesn't know you will call. 1 in 10 times he hopes you will fold and he can tell all of his friends of this great play he made on some guy when he was playing online and won a pot with 8 high.

[Actuary 3]

I was misquoted

[devilsslide 0]

Nice hand. This looks like an example straight out of SSHE. The check-raise sucks, but I think you have to call.

[GWCGWC 83]

Haven't read the responses:I like the way you played this hand. I bet the river, and I call the C/R without a solid read, even though I absolutly hate being raised here.

[The Nuts 0]

I think you played this hand very well. I would play it the same exact way.If you lose, you lose. Oh well. But I believe you played your hand correctly.

[BuffDan 0]

Thanks for the responces, I think I posted this hand as a confidence builder, since I seem to be losing a lot and wanted to make sure I was doing the simple stuff correctly. Obviously I lost the hand (otherwise, why post ), I think to a set of 4s that must have been thrilled he "suckered me in for that last bet" or something (man how I wish the straight had come in on the river). Now if I could just figure out how to play the difficult hands correctly...

[Santzes 0]

Must call. When I'm playing $1/$2, in a third of these river checkraises the opponent thinks he is slowplaying top pair with something like Q6o. And you're getting 12-to-1

[sleuthis 0]

So, I know that SSHE always talks about how it is usually a good idea to call the river for one bet and such, but I think I have taken this to the other extreme and have been calling way too many rivers. Now this may be just playing results, ie remembering hands where I have called that extra bet and been beat, but it seems like the river checkraise is not often a bluff or a hand beaten by top pair, second kicker. So, that said, is this a place where I should have folded (I think value betting here is ok, but maybe I should have just checked behind as well, though I realize the knowledge of his raise may affect anwers to this). I guess the question is in general which hands I should be folding on the river to either a checkraise or a bet in front of me, and whether this hand is one of them. I was new to the table, so no read on villain, btw.Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, K. UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (9 SB) 4, T, Q(4 players)SB checks, UTG checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, UTG folds, MP3 calls.Turn: (6.50 BB) J(2 players)MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls.River: (8.50 BB) 5(2 players)MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.Final Pot: 12.50 BB

I simply wouldnt bet this hand on the river.Especially if you are not sure what to do if you are check-raised.A couple reasons why I wouldnt make this betfor starters, I want to see my opponents hand, you are new to the table and its some info for you). If his hand is weaker than yours, he is not likely to call, or check raise you which will force you to make a decision which at this point in the hand, you really dont want to do.Your hand isnt really that strong, you have one pair with a decent kicker. You opponent had been calling so he has SOMETHING he feels is worthy of placing money in the pot.In your position, you should likely have the second best hand if you get checkraised (I said likely) - so the simple thing is - just dont bet that hand and give your opponent an opportunity to either steal or get an extra bet from you.At that point in the hand - I simply want to show it down.But - thats me - and thats my 2 cents

[Zach6668 513]

I simply wouldnt bet this hand on the river.Especially if you are not sure what to do if you are check-raised.A couple reasons why I wouldnt make this betfor starters, I want to see my opponents hand, you are new to the table and its some info for you). If his hand is weaker than yours, he is not likely to call, or check raise you which will force you to make a decision which at this point in the hand, you really dont want to do.Your hand isnt really that strong, you have one pair with a decent kicker. You opponent had been calling so he has SOMETHING he feels is worthy of placing money in the pot. In your position, you should likely have the second best hand if you get checkraised (I said likely) - so the simple thing is - just dont bet that hand and give your opponent an opportunity to either steal or get an extra bet from you.At that point in the hand - I simply want to show it down.But - thats me - and thats my 2 cents

That's very bad, IMO.This is an insanely easy value bet. You are getting called by all sorts of pairs here. Also, calling the c/r is easy too.As for the bolded part: You do understand these are micro limits, right? The definition of what people need to put money in the pot is a draw to a pair, backdoor two pair outs, one over card, and so on. VALUE BET!!!- Zach

[Verdimme 0]

I simply wouldnt bet this hand on the river.Especially if you are not sure what to do if you are check-raised.A couple reasons why I wouldnt make this betfor starters, I want to see my opponents hand, you are new to the table and its some info for you). If his hand is weaker than yours, he is not likely to call, or check raise you which will force you to make a decision which at this point in the hand, you really dont want to do.Your hand isnt really that strong, you have one pair with a decent kicker. You opponent had been calling so he has SOMETHING he feels is worthy of placing money in the pot.In your position, you should likely have the second best hand if you get checkraised (I said likely) - so the simple thing is - just dont bet that hand and give your opponent an opportunity to either steal or get an extra bet from you.At that point in the hand - I simply want to show it down.But - thats me - and thats my 2 cents

These limits are dominated by one word. Valuebet. Opponents call down with the weirdest crap all the time. No draw came in, easiest valuebet ever.-edit- damn you Zach

[Zach6668 513]

-edit- damn you Zach

[screech 0]

Easy river bet.I don't know about calling the check/raise. You've shown a ton of strength here, so I doubt he expects you to fold, and most players are content with just showing down weak made hands.OTOH, that 5 could not have helped him. If he had you beat, it was probalby on the turn. Honestly, I don't think it matters much what you do on this river. Call vs an unknown, and take a note. Against a straightforward player, it's a fold.

[psujohn 0]

I think we lose more by not betting the river than we do by calling the c/r.

[Actuary 3]

***********wonder if Screech will say : It's not a bluff, he knows you will call. Fold.Or if our hand is still strong enough to call.

I nailed it! :)Screech, if I seems particularly jerky lately, it's not you, it's me.

[screech 0]

I nailed it! :)Screech, if I seems particularly jerky lately, it's not you, it's me.

You half nailed it. His play as an unknown seems bizarre, and I would probalby call. If he was known to be logical, it's closer to a fold. All in all, I don't think it matters a huge deal what you do in this situation.

[EmFactor 0]

BEFORE READING REPLIES:Yeah, I probably would've played it the same way. The only difference I probably would've made is I would probably check it most of the time.. although there are times when I would bet as well.I think the villian could have easily made top two pair or a straight on the turn and waited to raise on the river. I've also found that when a player raises on the river it's hardly ever a bluff as well and was actually surprised when I went back and read SSHE that they recommend calling most of the time.On to the replies...----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yeah, I can see how this is a good call. The board isn't that scary. Although I can't imagine that we'd get check-raised all that often with a busted straight or flush draw, but I suppose it could happen.