GrinderMJ 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Was playing in the 35k guaranteed on Party, had a 100k+ stack with blinds at 1k-2k and managed to go bust. I made so many mistakes so fast, and blew a stack that was almost triple the average at the time. It really made me question whether I'm a good player, and if it's even profitable for me to continue playing. I threw away a chance at 13k, that I should have had a great shot to play for. If i can't hold onto that stack in that spot, I don't think I know what I'm doing anymore. Thinking about taking a break from poker for a while, really kinda seems like i have no chance to cash big anymore, like I just don't have the talent or patience or game to do it. Sorry about the whine post, just needed to vent some frustration and disappointment. Link to post Share on other sites
Cadam11 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Was playing in the 35k guaranteed on Party, had a 100k+ stack with blinds at 1k-2k and managed to go bust. I made so many mistakes so fast, and blew a stack that was almost triple the average at the time. It really made me question whether I'm a good player, and if it's even profitable for me to continue playing. I threw away a chance at 13k, that I should have had a great shot to play for. If i can't hold onto that stack in that spot, I don't think I know what I'm doing anymore. Thinking about taking a break from poker for a while, really kinda seems like i have no chance to cash big anymore, like I just don't have the talent or patience or game to do it. Sorry about the whine post, just needed to vent some frustration and disappointment.You just have to understand that its going to happen. I did that this week thinking I should cash out my whole bankroll and take a break. Then I started playing again and after winning back what you have lost and noticing that you couldnt do anything about some of your losses (and maybe some tilting) that you will want to keep playing. Did you actually play bad or some bad beats and then tilt? If you feel the need to take a break then go for it but its only one tournament and even though you feel like it was a big let down, dont let it get to you. Good Luck in the future Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 You just have to understand that its going to happen. I did that this week thinking I should cash out my whole bankroll and take a break. Then I started playing again and after winning back what you have lost and noticing that you couldnt do anything about some of your losses (and maybe some tilting) that you will want to keep playing. Did you actually play bad or some bad beats and then tilt? If you feel the need to take a break then go for it but its only one tournament and even though you feel like it was a big let down, dont let it get to you. Good Luck in the futureI didn't get outdrawn 1 hand on the way to losing 100k in chips with blinds at 1k2k. What upset me the most and what is really making me question how I play, is that I had to suck out twice all in before we cashed, I hit a crazy run of cards, had huge hands and awesome situations, all the key ingredients to a big cash. I had to get soooooooo lucky to get to that point, and I still didn't even have a big cash. It just makes me wonder, what does it take for me to cash big, if everything goes perfect like thigns were, and I'm still out in 50th, what shot do I have to win? Link to post Share on other sites
Kangaroo 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Grinder, ive seen you play man. You're a great player. That being said from reading some of your posts you do seem a bit down on yourself at the moment. I've never won a mtt but Ive come 3rd in a few and in these I said to myself before I know Im going to go deep in this. I had my concentration going and I was extremely positive and ready + i got some good cards . I really think if you dont approach each tournament as well as youc an this will happen to you.you blew a 100k stack? sure that sucks but still you learnt from it that you made a few mistakes and I'd be quit happy to bet that more often than not when you have a stack like this you'd be going onto a final table.take a while off i think, go out and do some fun stuff. You'll come back stronger than ever. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 We've all been there. Tournament play is sick, and you will go through bad rushes. WE ALL (inculding the great JohnnyBax) blow up during tournaments and do something completely donkish to ruin our chances of making the final table.The important thing is that you learn from your mistakes. Go through hand histories and look at mistakes you made and how you could maximize value in different situations. Sometimes I look at HHs and am so disgusted with my play that it literally makes me sick. Needless to say I won't play bad next time.People will tell you not to be hard on yourself, but I disagree with that. I think you should be honest with yourself, and if you are playing like a monkey, then you need to fix it. If you just keep telling yourself its variance or bad luck, odds are your game will never improve.Remember, there is a rediculous amount of luck needed to cash big in a mtt. It always makes me feel better when I can go to a cash game and make some easy money, because it reminds me that tournaments aren't everything. Cash games are for the steady money and tournaments are a whole different story. Maybe taking a break wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. However, I think you would be better off if you sat down and took an honest look at your game. Good Luck. Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 We've all been there. Tournament play is sick, and you will go through bad rushes. WE ALL (inculding the great JohnnyBax) blow up during tournaments and do something completely donkish to ruin our chances of making the final table.The important thing is that you learn from your mistakes. Go through hand histories and look at mistakes you made and how you could maximize value in different situations. Sometimes I look at HHs and am so disgusted with my play that it literally makes me sick. Needless to say I won't play bad next time.People will tell you not to be hard on yourself, but I disagree with that. I think you should be honest with yourself, and if you are playing like a monkey, then you need to fix it. If you just keep telling yourself its variance or bad luck, odds are your game will never improve.Remember, there is a rediculous amount of luck needed to cash big in a mtt. It always makes me feel better when I can go to a cash game and make some easy money, because it reminds me that tournaments aren't everything. Cash games are for the steady money and tournaments are a whole different story. Maybe taking a break wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. However, I think you would be better off if you sat down and took an honest look at your game. Good Luck.Hoosier, I've been looking at some HH's and thinking about my recent results, and I'm really starting to think that I'm just not as good as I thought I was. I push too many hmarginal hands and marginal situations, I call with too many marginal hands, and I never fold in situations where it's obvious I should. a 100k stack and an M of like 30 and I'm lagging like crazy from every posittion trying to bluff huge multiway pots. I really don't think I have the game right now to make money in tournaments. I might have to completely change my game, or think about dedicating myself to cash games and forgetting tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites
offset 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 First off, everyone has donked it up with a big lead like that. Don't worry about it. You are obviously a good player to have gotten to that point in the first place.Taking a break might not be a bad idea. Once you are dying to play again you will play much better.If you find yourself getting too aggressive try looking over your hand histories. when you are looking over your hands objectively usually you will find some spots where you made terrible plays. Then, it becomes easier to fix in the game.Also, I would suggest rereading HOH2, especially the chapter about inflection points. When you start to look at your hands more mathematically and analytically it becomes easier to spot your mistakes and implement a sounder strategy in the game. After rereading it, look over your hand histories again and reanalyze.Anyway, I hope this helps. This is what I do when I am playing poorly, and it always seems to turn my game around. Good luck. (literally, not in the sarcastic Smash way) Link to post Share on other sites
profxavier9 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Grinder my man dont feel bad i too have watched you play andyou are a good player. Tournaments drive me crazy aswell. I know the cash games are much more steady and reliable source of money and i always try to get in a steady diet of them but it is something about the allure of making final tables that i love and i think alot of you might have the same problem as me? Tournaments are sick by nature...poker for that matter but tournaments especially so i find. Some tourney's you can make the final table without many big pairs others you need them sometimes you can suck your way out to the final table and so on and so on. god i could go on forever.What i do when im running bad is switch games up play some limit cash games or something different. Ive learned alot from reading and watching you i assure you your a good player. Take it easy bro smoke a j if thats your thing... releives tilt well most of the time...i hope that is ll coherent Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Start looking at hand histories and thinking backwards, meaning this- what if some situations you opt not to play aggresively? I am aggressive as hell and I can't think of how many times I would have fared much better if I would have just called raises from certain opponents, saw alot more flops and then acted accordingly. I could have folded Q-Q and J-J or even K-K against certain people and lost alot less on these hands, because for the most part I know what alot players will raise aggresively with. If everytime I am raisng and they have there A-x and guess what? They aren't folding, and if I play a little differently and don't pay them off? I save alot of chips and then I can find situations to bust them when I flop 2 rag pairs, or a A- high flush and they can't let the J high go. I find that way to many times when I get a huge stack I overaggresse when the only thing these guys should be focused on is trying to find a situation where it is profitable to try and double through me, and I am more than happy to oblige. What I mean is think about being more choosy at each table who you play aggressive with- it's something I have been thinking about lately because of just different situations that have come up while playing multis. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 OK man, from November til Last Thursday, I had 2 Final Tables, and dropped about 11k playing tournaments. Through those times, there were a few times where I had a big stack and lost it quick. It happens a lot in tournament poker, and you just have to fight past it. There are going to be plenty of times where it happens because you will lose a big pot, then not even go on tilt, but your judgement will get clouded and you will make a bad play in the next few hands.Just because you lose a big stack in a tournament does not make you a bad player. Just because you haven't had a cash in a long time does not make you a bad player. Bad runs happen a lot in tournament poker. Sick runs happen often. If you play enough of them, you will be profitable. Playing solid poker basically makes you better than 80-85% of the players. Don't let a sick run get you down, you will get lucky enough eventually to win a tournament. And anyone who thinks you don't need to get lucky to win a tournament is lying. Trust me. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 PokerStars Game #4156837810: Tournament #20356763, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/03/02 - 23:46:26 (ET)Table '20356763 151' Seat #4 is the buttonSeat 1: Go Four It (180 in chips) Seat 2: Pancakelover (10660 in chips) Seat 3: Ace2Ten (5100 in chips) Seat 4: Chewba (6420 in chips) Seat 5: westracing (8055 in chips) Seat 6: bluesmaid (5942 in chips) Seat 7: Badbbbboy (4616 in chips) Seat 8: bone901 (9555 in chips) Seat 9: sayserv (6885 in chips) westracing: posts small blind 75bluesmaid: posts big blind 150*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Pancakelover [5d 8h]Badbbbboy: folds bone901: folds sayserv has timed outsayserv: folds sayserv is sitting outGo Four It: folds Pancakelover: raises 450 to 600Ace2Ten: folds Chewba: calls 600sayserv has returnedwestracing: folds bluesmaid: folds *** FLOP *** [7d 8s Ts]Pancakelover: checks Chewba: bets 1200Pancakelover: raises 1200 to 2400Chewba: calls 1200*** TURN *** [7d 8s Ts] [8c]Pancakelover: bets 1200Chewba: calls 1200*** RIVER *** [7d 8s Ts 8c] [8d]Pancakelover: bets 900Chewba: raises 1320 to 2220 and is all-inPancakelover: calls 1320*** SHOW DOWN ***Chewba: shows [Ad Qc] (three of a kind, Eights)Pancakelover: shows [5d 8h] (four of a kind, Eights)Pancakelover collected 13065 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 13065 | Rake 0 Board [7d 8s Ts 8c 8d]Seat 1: Go Four It folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: Pancakelover showed [5d 8h] and won (13065) with four of a kind, EightsSeat 3: Ace2Ten folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Chewba (button) showed [Ad Qc] and lost with three of a kind, EightsSeat 5: westracing (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 6: bluesmaid (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 7: Badbbbboy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: bone901 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: sayserv folded before Flop (didn't bet) I am pancake lover- this should perk up your spirits. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 i really dont want to do this..but.can you explain the point of check/raising minimum on that flop?- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 i really dont want to do this..but.can you explain the point of check/raising minimum on that flop?- Jordan If he has the 10 or the 7 or any better he reraise me right there- really this is a terrible hand that I managed to get lucky with, but his call told me he was probably drawing, with A-J to as strong as A-K. This guy was a calling station with unmade hands. Once the 3rd 8 came on the turn I knew that he would probably be calling all the way down hoping to hit, and it was just a matter of building the pot. I was just on a steal preflop and really had an inkling that he had nothing to start with when he just called my original raise. The reraise was just a way to cement that, and it also ended up pushing him into making the cal on the river, because in his mind he was commited. Why he did not push preflop I have no clue, I would have, really hard. I had been raising and hitting all kinds of garbage, so why he wanted to tangle postflop beats me. Speaking of this tournament, not once did I suck out on anybody, yet Pokerstars managed to let the general public suckout on me about 6 times in big pots where I was ahead until the river, and when I need one to survive? No love. I hate that site. Link to post Share on other sites
blueodum 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 a 100k stack and an M of like 30 and I'm lagging like crazy from every posittion trying to bluff huge multiway pots.Yah, that's really dumb. Stop doing that and you'll be fine. Like the Mouth says - you've gotta learn a couple more gears. Link to post Share on other sites
finztotheleft 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 OK man, from November til Last Thursday, I had 2 Final Tables, and dropped about 11k playing tournaments. Through those times, there were a few times where I had a big stack and lost it quick. It happens a lot in tournament poker, and you just have to fight past it. There are going to be plenty of times where it happens because you will lose a big pot, then not even go on tilt, but your judgement will get clouded and you will make a bad play in the next few hands.Just because you lose a big stack in a tournament does not make you a bad player. Just because you haven't had a cash in a long time does not make you a bad player. Bad runs happen a lot in tournament poker. Sick runs happen often. If you play enough of them, you will be profitable. Playing solid poker basically makes you better than 80-85% of the players. Don't let a sick run get you down, you will get lucky enough eventually to win a tournament. And anyone who thinks you don't need to get lucky to win a tournament is lying. Trust me.Zimm....do you mind me asking how much you are up ? This is in no way a slam....I have read on here that you do quite well in tourneys and that you have the respect of everyone in strat. $11,000 in tourney fees is just so far beyond my bankroll and abilities, I have no point of reference. Also, because I'm curious, are you planning on going to college or playing full time ? Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Grinder, I can only assume by the responses of those here who know you and your ability better than I that you are a good player. Instead of getting down on yourself, try and identify where exactly you went wrong. Was it overconfidence or an inflated sense of security leading you into playing too many hands? I find it's often the case that a larger than average stack leads to that, next thing you know you're fighting to get into the money. Getting loose with a big stack only means you have that much more to lose, imo, but I'm not a particularly aggressive player, nor am I very experienced. Fundamental discipline and patience are more crucial than ever in the late stages of a tourney where you'll find trickier players and luckier donkeys.Get back on that horse. Link to post Share on other sites
astros11ss 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 grinder, i don't know you very well personally, but from my observation from lurking over the past few months i know you are a very solid player. tournaments like these (specifically, where you play well and accumulate a lot of chips up to a point, and then for whatever reason self combust and donk off your chips in grand style) happen to everyone, and have certainly happened to me. when i do play a tournament like this, i harp on it and try to use it as motivation to play more solid during tournaments. your confidence sounds completely shot right now, and i know that for me, having confidence while playing is a HUGE factor. i don't see taking a break as a good solution to this UNLESS you aren't enjoying playing poker anymore. if, however, you do enjoy it but currently just feel incompetent while playing it, i'd say the best solution is to hit the tables and play through it. you're a winning player, play some sngs and lower buy-in mtts for a day or two and then jump back into it. good luck, hope my advice was somewhat useful. Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Grinder, I think the best advice you can get right now is take a break. I think a lot of times, even when we know intellectually that we need some time off, we just keep plugging away because emotionally we want our poker to be productive again and we want to reinforce that we're good players in our own minds.A mistake like this though, especially one that you're beating yourself up about is only going to lead to worse play over the next few days (and possibly longer if you tilt about those losses). Over that time period, I'd almost guarantee that you'll be a losing player.Also, the mistakes you're making, (playing too many hands, calling when you know you're beaten) seem to be a textbook example of poker fatigue. You're so bored with playing the same stages of the tournament that you're forcing the action and trying too hard to get creative even when the money's significant and you know you shouldn't.I remember finding myself in a similar situation a few months ago where I was chip leader going into the final table of a tournament where a win would have significantly impacted my BR and I donked off my stack by playing too LAG and finished 7th. I went on massive tilt the next couple days and ended up throwing away most of my poker account playing cash games. Seriously, just take some time off, and when you come back in 5 or 6 days, you'll probably find yourself playing better than ever. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Matusow 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Look how well I did after I took a little break.MM Link to post Share on other sites
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