hypothetical lhe hu question..(thinking caps on.)

[alf13 0]

I was kicking this around with a Buddy of mine...the Question: WHO WOULD WIN?The Game is a Heads Up Limit Holdem Freezeout with 100BB.Player A)1. Will raise every Pot preflop, three bet with every pair and AK,AQ,AJ.2. Will bet every Street out of position.3. Will raise every street in Position.4. Will three bet every street with any pair.5. Will Cap every Street with TP or Better.Player B)1. Will Only raise preflop with all pairs and AK,AQ,AJ.2. Will call a bet on the flop with a pair, or any draw..(Gutterball, OE str8, four flush, or overs)3. Will FOLD on the turn if he has no pair or if he misses his draw on the turn.4. Will only call on the turn with a pair or a straight/Flush draw combination.5. Will Fold third pair or worst on the River.6. Will only Raise with TP on the Flop, TP on the Turn, and Two Pair or Better on the River.Who would win? 100 BB.What does the math dictate?

[Brownbeard 0]

My opinion is player A. That's the way Dreamclown played DN for the most part and he held his own against one of the best players in the world. There's a lot to be said for aggression short-handed; even more so heads up...

[alf13 0]

Anybody want to take a crack at analyzing this scenario mathematically...or do we want to talk about Gay Sex and Fecal Matter?

[econ_tim 0]

i'm pretty sure player A would winplayer B would be folding way too oftenbut i haven't thought about it for very long

[kouta43 0]

i'm pretty sure player A would winplayer B would be folding way too oftenbut i haven't thought about it for very long

i dont know the math but im pretty sure on average 3rd pair beats a random holding, and that is exactly what A has.

[SexyStudThang 0]

I actually sat here and tried to come up with some math that would allow me to figure this out, and when I looked back at it in the end none of it added up. I dont know the percentages for random hand to flop random pair and random draw and such, so I was using estimations bla bla bla. It seems obvious to me that player A would win, but when my math came out it up player B at a distinct advantage, so high that I think my approach was inherrently flawed, so I wont even bother posting the thinking process. This is a tough one, and had I more time in the day I could probably hammer something out in a couple of hours: but it would be pretty involved.

[diablo01 0]

U trying to program a bot and disquise it as a hypothetical math question Alf?oh i forgot, bots don't exist.

[alf13 0]

U trying to program a bot and disquise it as a hypothetical math question Alf?oh i forgot, bots don't exist.

No dude....good idea though.

[yergan 0]

I think we need to know what player B is calling with preflop.

[greatwhite 0]

This is an obvious Player A. Player B is folding too much.

[kdogg 0]

Player A would win many more pots. Player B would win bigger pots. I don't feel like doing the math to figure out who would win, and I probably wouldn't be able to figure it out even if I tried.

[nosoul 0]

Since A is basically forcing himself to bet every round, and never folding, there is a strategy that beats him. But I'm not sure how close B is to having that strategy.There's a table game floating around now called Bonus Hold'Em, or Hold'Em Bonus, or something like that. As player B, you could force player A to basically play like the house in that game. I wrote a simulator to see what the house edge for that game was and here's a strategy that would beat it, if the betting was equal. (As a side note, the table game isn't beatable because the house doesn't post an ante but the player does. This ends up giving the house at least a 6% edge, depending on how the player plays.).The strategy: call to see the flop with any two cards. If you start with less than Q-7, fold if the flop misses you (meaning you don't pair up). Never chase a draw. If you start with Q-7 or better, check/call to showdown.Against a player that never folds and a single bet each round after the flop, that strategy gives you roughly a 3% edge.

[Abbaddabba 0]

The conditions for players B are not entirely clear.You said that he'd raise top pair on the flop or turn, but not how many raises he'd take it to. Same thing for the river.Are we to assume that he caps the flop, turn and river when those criteria are met?If so, i think that he'd probably beat player A..... Although condition 5 is going to have him losing quite a bit (the fact that he folds anything less than 2nd pair on the river).

[alf13 0]

The conditions for players B are not entirely clear.You said that he'd raise top pair on the flop or turn, but not how many raises he'd take it to. Same thing for the river.Are we to assume that he caps the flop, turn and river when those criteria are met?If so, i think that he'd probably beat player A..... Although condition 5 is going to have him losing quite a bit (the fact that he folds anything less than 2nd pair on the river).

He will raise.....we already know WHAT his opponent will call...and will re-raise with....

[Abbaddabba 0]

Yeah, so he'll raise every time action is open to him, right?Not just the initial raise, and then call a 3bet...

[alf13 0]

Yeah, so he'll raise every time action is open to him, right?Not just the initial raise, and then call a 3bet...

Yes.

[alf13 0]

Remember that Player B will not cap when 3 bet unless he meets his capping criteria.