california holdem

[TheDuck21 0]

Just making a game less likely to have 50/50 flips, etc., does not make it better. Let's look at the extremes.Royal Hold'em had just 20 cards. You always had a great hand. There simply weren't that many hands out there. It's either a straight or a full house, almost. Not very exciting.The opposite is California Hold'em. Why not have 738 cards? Now it's unlikely you hold two good cards. So I'll just go all-in. You will likely fold because now just about any draw is death to your stack. So it becomes Crapshoot Hold'em.Also, nice try "licensing" it. I can't even come up with a term to represent how I feel about that. Is assclown good enough? Maybe.Another example: Bobby Fischer was that good at chess that he didn't find it challenging anymore. So he decided to offer a few differences in board size and pieces. The one he tried hardest to promote was Fischerandom. Didn't fly. There just wasn't any point in making the idea any more complex. There was enough in it already. Sort of an 80/20 rule. 80% of what made it interesting was already. The next 20% to make it "better" just alienated it from the millions of people already enjoying it.When you take a good or stable idea and try to add obscurity (and royalties, asshat) you have to imagine some backlash. Even Fischer didn't try to license the idea.Finally, excellent presentation of game theory does not a game make. The game needs to be straightforward and entertaining to play. A list of caveats as long as the constitution just to be "different" is a waste of time. Maybe another way to avoid coin flips is come up with a clever strategy to avoid coin flips. Imagine Barry Greenstein saying, "I'm tired of losing to these coin flips on my good calls. Add the jokers back in and they're, oh, I dunno, bigger than an Ace but can only be a heart or a club."I don't mind the concept of different such as Hold'em, Omaha, Razz, 7-stud, draw, etc. But don't call arbitrary additions of cards to a deck "poker" (or removal of cards, or changing their value, i.e., wildcards). It is a different game at this point.California Hold'em is dead! Long live California UNO!You have 3,741 cards in the deck. You are dealt 18 and there are 46 on the board. You have to make a hand between 7 and 31 cards but NO MORE AND NO LESS. Hearts are clubs if a 51 of spades is between 4th and 9th position on the board but otherwise........

[Jelly-Filled Ace 1]

This is messed up and funny.

[bobbywithani 0]

Any hand with a ten or eleven in it would be worthless, right?

[californiaholdem 0]

Just making a game less likely to have 50/50 flips, etc., does not make it better. Let's look at the extremes.Royal Hold'em had just 20 cards. You always had a great hand. There simply weren't that many hands out there. It's either a straight or a full house, almost. Not very exciting.The opposite is California Hold'em. Why not have 738 cards? Now it's unlikely you hold two good cards. So I'll just go all-in. You will likely fold because now just about any draw is death to your stack. So it becomes Crapshoot Hold'em.Also, nice try "licensing" it. I can't even come up with a term to represent how I feel about that. Is assclown good enough? Maybe.Another example: Bobby Fischer was that good at chess that he didn't find it challenging anymore. So he decided to offer a few differences in board size and pieces. The one he tried hardest to promote was Fischerandom. Didn't fly. There just wasn't any point in making the idea any more complex. There was enough in it already. Sort of an 80/20 rule. 80% of what made it interesting was already. The next 20% to make it "better" just alienated it from the millions of people already enjoying it.When you take a good or stable idea and try to add obscurity (and royalties, asshat) you have to imagine some backlash. Even Fischer didn't try to license the idea.Finally, excellent presentation of game theory does not a game make. The game needs to be straightforward and entertaining to play. A list of caveats as long as the constitution just to be "different" is a waste of time. Maybe another way to avoid coin flips is come up with a clever strategy to avoid coin flips. Imagine Barry Greenstein saying, "I'm tired of losing to these coin flips on my good calls. Add the jokers back in and they're, oh, I dunno, bigger than an Ace but can only be a heart or a club."I don't mind the concept of different such as Hold'em, Omaha, Razz, 7-stud, draw, etc. But don't call arbitrary additions of cards to a deck "poker" (or removal of cards, or changing their value, i.e., wildcards). It is a different game at this point.California Hold'em is dead! Long live California UNO!You have 3,741 cards in the deck. You are dealt 18 and there are 46 on the board. You have to make a hand between 7 and 31 cards but NO MORE AND NO LESS. Hearts are clubs if a 51 of spades is between 4th and 9th position on the board but otherwise........

I seriously don't get the venom. Relax. It's only a game.It is a good game. It is entertaining to play. The personal attacks are completely uncalled for. I have many of the best poker players in the world who disagree with you about the appeal of the game. Your examples of taking it to the extreme and creating a problem through too many cards in the deck does not express at all what the reality of the game is.Whether you care to recognize it or not, there are major problems with Texas Hold'em that affect players to the highest degree in the places where most play and the industry which is struggling with product differentiation.Believe it or not, this game was not designed as a personal affront to you. The press release that led to this thread is meant for the industry, which has had a completely different reaction (very favorable.) There will be announcements soon as far as who endorses the game and where it can be found. As far as your attacks about licensing... I truly don't understand your beef. The majority of players play poker online. In the future it will be on mobile phones. (To a much larger degree than what is available now.) What I charge those who carry it is not your concern. And, as seems apparent, you are not going to be one of my consumers, that's just fine. However, you have an uncomplete understanding of the game itself. Don't knock it until you try it. Many people have, including some of the game's big names. Not one of them disagrees that the game accomplishes what it sets out to do. If you think you're so damn smart, fine. Put your money where your mouth is. Could you just be concerned that you won't cut it in my game? Why else you would be such a jerk is totally beyond me.

[MikeJohnson724 0]

You keep saying "Biggest names in the game" But FAIL to name these names!

[californiaholdem 0]

You keep saying "Biggest names in the game" But FAIL to name these names!

Let's see here, I could name those names now to impress some guy I don't know on the Internet or I can make the announcements publically when it is appropriate.Last I'm going to post here. Thought I'd come here to throw a bit of clarity on what the game actually is before it get summarily cast down by those who do not understand it. It is not available to the public yet and no one need get bent out of shape or worry about it until it is.When it is, the game will be marketed and you can find it, or not find it, as you see fit.It is a great game that provides a unique, fresh experience. It does not set out to replace Texas Hold'em. It is an alternative for those who love poker and would like to try something different. It's really this simple... Down the line, if you see it, you can either play it or not. Don't worry about who else may or may not play it and get an ulcer over the fact that you feel no one would ever want to play it. That's my job, and that of my business team. All I ask is that you keep an open mind and don't go out of the way to disparage the game (or me for that matter) for having devised something that's a bit out of the box.Games are for people to enjoy. That's my intent. If the very existence of my game somehow ruins your day, I truly, deeply sincerely apologize. I have pursued this business very passionately because I do have a deep understanding of what I have created and believe in it accordingly. I hope that some of you will try the game down the line. For those who won't, I wish you luck in whatever it is that you enjoy.

[case ace 0]

california,never argue with an idiot, an on-looker cant tell the difference. This site will only flame, no support, it's not worth trying. to many 15 years olds.other than that, good luck with the game. I will play it if i see it. IMO taking draw out of the game has very little to do with skill. pros, (and semipros like me!) draw too. most importantly, it seems like an uber tight game, that only attracts pros, and has no action. IMO that is.again, it would behoove you to forget about the neg. replies here. It's like the special olympics, even if you win, it's still retarded

[stealfromblind 0]

fagay.

[MikeJohnson724 0]

california,Never argue with an idiot. An on-looker can't tell the difference.  This site will only flame, no support, it's not worth trying.  Too many 15 years olds.Other than that, good luck with the game.  IMO taking draw out of the game has very little to do with skill. Pros, (and semipros like me!) draw too.  Again, it would behoove (Not a word) you to forget about the neg. replies here.  It's like the special olympics, even if you win, it's still retarded

FYP. I am sure there is more.

[californiaholdem 0]

california,never argue with an idiot, an on-looker cant tell the difference.  This site will only flame, no support, it's not worth trying.  to many 15 years olds.other than that, good luck with the game.  IMO taking draw out of the game has very little to do with skill. pros, (and semipros like me!) draw too.  again, it would behoove you to forget about the neg. replies here.  It's like the special olympics, even if you win, it's still retarded

Thanks! I was seriously getting down. I started a business with a cool product and to have people be so disrespectful and petulent is hard to understand. I can only guess that the Internet culture, where people have no need to act with dignity or civility, has spawned a generation of people who, through the barrier of a screen, behave really badly and feel somehow like it doesn't matters. I'm what you'd call a nice person. I go out of my way to carry myself with class and do the right thing. I am also very measured when it comes to the business I conduct. This was not just a press release put out for the hell of it. I have put a lot of time, effort and thought into my business strategy. I would only hope that before people do flame, they stop, listen and consider that their initial reaction may not be the end all be all. As for your comment about drawing. I agree that pros draw, too. But, as you know, it is only "correct" to draw when the ratio between your odds of winning the hand and the pot is correct to make the times you hit offset the losses when you do not. If you calculate pot odds in Texas Hold'em or my game, and you do so correctly, you will profit from either. What make California Hold'em different is that when a player, or players in multiples, call chronically without proper pot odds, they are punished to a slightly higher degree because made hands have a bit more insurance. This inspires players, because of the reduced odds of success for gambling, to behave in a more orderly fashion. Remember, the first World Series in 1970 had only seven of the best players in the world. Nuance and strategy were formed from the presumption that all other players were attempting to play optimally. In many places where people play Texas Hold'em today, mostly in low-entry tournaments and low-limit ring games, that can not always be said. My game seeks to ensure that strategy, knowledge and the ability to read players is a more important factor.

[case ace 0]

california,Never argue with an idiot. An on-looker can't tell the difference.  This site will only flame, no support, it's not worth trying.  Too many 15 years olds.Other than that, good luck with the game.  IMO taking draw out of the game has very little to do with skill. Pros, (and semipros like me!) draw too.  Again, it would behoove (Not a word) you to forget about the neg. replies here.  It's like the special olympics, even if you win, it's still retarded

FYP. I am sure there is more.

rotflmaohow do you not know that word? are you 6? or 7?google, beatch. caps is for the ivory-anal tower. ps. not only are you not smart enough to know the word behoove, yer a complete tool. below is a definition. I hope you can manage to read that.later.http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=...=define:behoovebe appropriate or necessary; "It behooves us to reflect on this matter"

[PokerColorado 0]

Can't resist coming in to this one. 1) Predicting the games ultimate fate seems a bit premature. No one ever thought there would ever be a need for anyone to have a computer in their home. When they got done bringing them into homes, nobody ever forsaw a need for more than 640K of memory. And when I tried to turn my monthly poker tournaments into NLHE from 5/7 Stud I was laughed out of my own house. (We now play only NLHE ... hmmm)2) Which of us hasn't explored games outside of our primary? Whether it be to hone general poker skills, learn something new, of just donk off a little profit while having fun, it's healthy. Why kill the guy for being creative? I admit I cringed a little when I read the news release, but if it ever comes mainstream I will try it at least once. And the most important -3) Don't EVER try to tell the public what they will/won't like. They have the annoying tendency to do the exact opposite of what you expect. Assuming that the theory of more skill is correct, if this game catches on and draws the public in masses, I'm going to be right there waiting with a big chip stack even if I do like Texas HE better.

[californiaholdem 0]

Can't resist coming in to this one.  1) Predicting the games ultimate fate seems a bit premature.  No one ever thought there would ever be a need for anyone to have a computer in their home.  When they got done bringing them into homes, nobody ever forsaw a need for more than 640K of memory.  And when I tried to turn my monthly poker tournaments into NLHE from 5/7 Stud I was laughed out of my own house.  (We now play only NLHE ... hmmm)2) Which of us hasn't explored games outside of our primary?  Whether it be to hone general poker skills, learn something new, of just donk off a little profit while having fun, it's healthy.  Why kill the guy for being creative? I admit I cringed a little when I read the news release, but if it ever comes mainstream I will try it at least once.  And the most important -3) Don't EVER try to tell the public what they will/won't like.  They have the annoying tendency to do the exact opposite of what you expect.  Assuming that the theory of more skill is correct, if this game catches on and draws the public in masses, I'm going to be right there waiting with a big chip stack even if I do like Texas HE better.

Thank you. Wise words. Just for that I'm loading up on the Broncos.Seriously, to some of you, please just keep an open mind. That's all I ask. Reserve judgement for when it's available for you to play.That's all. Thanks for the opportunity to defend my game and good luck to all.

[poguemahone68 0]

What's next--Arkansas Hold'em?  Just face cards and they're all related....heyaw!

LOL.California Hold'em is gonna be a huge flop.

How's that OTC thing working out?

[Abbaddabba 0]

Your rationale for believing that it benefits "good" players is based on the assumption that bad players are bad because they play too loose, and not for a variety of other reasons. That's mostly true at live games, but it can often be for other reasons.With that in mind - I like the idea of it being played at casinos; as i welcome all new games.The fact is that there are many people out there who've simply played texas hold em for so long that they can play competently (debatably im sure) without even thinking. It's completely mechanical. I can, however, think of more interesting ways of putting a twist on the traditional rules of poker than simply adding a few more card ranks.

[fakeusername2 0]

i cant wait to play it if it really comes out. sounds interesting.im always up for trying something new.you know alot of pros didnt like triple draw when it first came out. but thats a high limit game in most casinos.i was wondering if you had plans for making it available at the local L.A. card rooms like commerce or bike?i hope to see it there so i can give it a try.

[californiaholdem 0]

i cant wait to play it if it really comes out.  sounds interesting.im always up for trying something new.you know alot of pros didnt like triple draw when it first came out. but thats a high limit game in most casinos.i was wondering if you had plans for making it available at the local L.A. card rooms like commerce or bike?i hope to see it there so i can give it a try.

I have a new batch of decks arriving this week. I will be going to both of those clubs in the next week to see if I can get it on the floors. (Also Hollywood Park, Normandy, Hustler...) I'll let you know how it goes.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I was respectful in my response. I posted what came to mind when I first heard about this game. You have not addressed my question as to whether or not reducing luck also reduces fish, deadmoney, profits.... Perhaps I needed to attack you personally to elicit a response.

[FileError404 0]

Got a picture of a deck? Sounds interresting to me.

[finztotheleft 0]

California......It was really unfortunate that you received so many overly nasty comments. Ignore the immaturity factor. I respect people who take the initiative to come up with a new product, develop it, market it, etc. I wish you good luck with your business venture. I understand in principle what you are trying to do. Punishing people for drawing when they do not have the odds. I just don't agree with the need for a change . I believe the really good players are making a profit in cash games already. The people who are not are not good, they just think they are. I think these players will quickly quit a game when they never win because they (ok, me too :oops: ) will no longer be able to convince themselves that it's just variance when they rarely have a winning session. As an aside, I also do not understand why changing the odds on a coin flip of pp vs oc is a good thing. Why should 77 now be so much better than AK ? It's the A rag I don't want to lose to !I also confess to being somewhat resistant to change. I spent years playing Scrabble growing up, getting killed by my parents. Now that I know more of the xi, xu, qaid, qat gems than they do, they have switched to Upwards. UGH ! It's just not right !A few other things to think about......I think seeing tv poker contributed to many people being interested in Texas Hold Em. You wouldn't have that going for you. After I played my first home game I went out and purchased several poker books to improve my game. You won't have that base for people who want it either. These are not reasons I think your product is "sure to fail" as some on here have suggested, just reasons I don't think I'll be first in line to play.

[Hypersomnia 0]

california holdem is an asshat.

[TheDuck21 0]

Actually, you're right. The personal attacks were a bit pathetic. I apologize. It was the idea I was responding to. Furthermore, it's just my opinion so you should hardly take it personally.STILLAlthough I found Fischerandom 'interesting', I didn't think it represented chess. It's a different game.And I still don't understand licensing it. Though that could be my ignorance. Is poker, euchre, gin, bridge, etc. licensed? That, itself, could get it killed. People complain enough about a rake, imagine the very idea being raked before the rake.Finally, another point that I've heard. If you make this an elite game then the "fish" disappear. The allure of doing this for a living becomes less appealing. So although it might become an exhibition-type game at the WSOP or something, I don't think you will find it in every casino.If it comes to a home game, casino, online poker room near me I'm certain I'll try it out. If I didn't try new things I wouldn't be playing poker, wouldn't be on the Internet or doing that thing with marshmallows.However, that IS my opinion which is what I thought these posts were or must be since there are some that certainly aren't based in MY reality. :-)

[Hypersomnia 0]

California Holdem is an asshat.

[Scanner313 0]

california,Never argue with an idiot. An on-looker can't tell the difference. This site will only flame, no support, it's not worth trying. Too many 15 years olds.Other than that, good luck with the game. IMO taking draw out of the game has very little to do with skill. Pros, (and semipros like me!) draw too. Again, it would behoove (Not a word) you to forget about the neg. replies here. It's like the special olympics, even if you win, it's still retarded

FYP. I am sure there is more.

be·hoove ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b-hv)v. be·hooved, be·hoov·ing, be·hooves v. tr.To be necessary or proper for: It behooves you at least to try. Wow, you spent all that time trying to make yourself look superior by fixing grammer errors in that guys post and you make a completely idiotic oversight like this. Great job!

[digitalmonkey 929]

The horse ain't wearin' shoes, but he behooved.