california holdem

[AcesUp46 0]

I wasn't dead, I was just sleeping. But check the game out. It isn't up on the site, yet, but I've been playing it in beta and it's awesome. Plus, take me up on the free deck.I'm really not a salesy guy and I think the game speaks for itself, so that's the last time I plug it. But I do hope some of those who lambasted be come and get a feel for the game.www.californiaholdem.tv www.myspace.com/californiaholdem

It looks interesting. Hope your endeavour works out. Gl.

[californiaholdem 0]

It looks interesting. Hope your endeavour works out. Gl.

Thank you very much. It's been a fun and wild ride so far. I'll be at the WSOP's Lifestyle Show promoting in the Let's Poker booth next week. If anyone's around, come on by and say hello.

[californiaholdem 0]

I got a PM from someone who signed up and said they didn't see the place to get the free deck.SUCKA!Kidding. There's nothing up on the site about it, yet. (Let's Poker.) I struck a deal with the owner today where I'll provide a free deck for all of the new sign-ups. Anyone who signed up today or signs up after today will get one, ongoing. He'll forward me the addresses and I'll mail them in one big batch once every other week.His designers need some time to get it integrated.And also to clarify, the game is in beta now and not available online. BUT, that will change by Thursday. The game will "go live" before then.Hope you guys come play. Kid Poker, come by. I think you'll enjoy it!

[californiaholdem 0]

:bump:

[zsta2k6 0]

Odds of hitting an open ended straight draw on the river in texas holdem: 17.4%Odds of hitting an open ended straight draw on the river in other holdem: 14.8%Odds of hitting a flush draw on the river in texas holdem: 19.57%Odds of hitting a flush draw on the river in other holdem: 16.67%Wow, quite a difference.Oh, and btw, you have less chance of pairing your cards, so TP/GK will become overplayed, as will pocket pairs. Have any actual stats to back you up?Have a nice day.

[californiaholdem 0]

http://img77.imageshack.us/full.php?image=...tiveodds0nf.jpgHere's an Excel sheet I made that details the differences in odds after the flop, based on outs. I have a wealth of statisitics compiled, but they're mostly in spread sheets and scratched on paper. I'll spend some time in the next couple of weeks presenting them better and I'll see if I can have them put up or linked on the Let's Poker site in the How to Play section.

[californiaholdem 0]

Guys, by the way... I have a MySpace page with a lot of information, including some discussions about why fish will stay play and why there's as much action...It's www.myspace.com/californiaholdem

[zsta2k6 0]

http://img77.imageshack.us/full.php?image=...tiveodds0nf.jpgHere's an Excel sheet I made that details the differences in odds after the flop, based on outs. I have a wealth of statisitics compiled, but they're mostly in spread sheets and scratched on paper. I'll spend some time in the next couple of weeks presenting them better and I'll see if I can have them put up or linked on the Let's Poker site in the How to Play section.

lol, you have got to be kidding. Statistics manipulation at it's best. Why not put the actual difference between the percentages, rather than a ratio of the percentages?For example, you both go all in after a turn, he has 4 outs to win a $100 pot....Run it 100 times for texas holdem, you should win about $9130Run it 100 times for other holdem, you should win about $9259Some 15% difference there.9259/9130 = 16%???

[californiaholdem 0]

lol, you have got to be kidding. Statistics manipulation at it's best. Why not put the actual difference between the percentages, rather than a ratio of the percentages?For example, you both go all in after a turn, he has 4 outs to win a $100 pot....Run it 100 times for texas holdem, you should win about $9130Run it 100 times for other holdem, you should win about $9259Some 15% difference there.9259/9130 = 16%???

Try the game when it's live this week. http://www.letspoker.com/howtoplay_cali_holdem.htmlStatistics manipulation? I'm just not going to get into it with you, but the fact of the matter is that the additional 8 cards in the deck do in fact change the odds significantly. Think about it... There are eight more cards. The chance of me drawing out on you decrease because there are eight more cards in the deck that are not the cards I need to catch... The chances of the flush are diminished more because of the eight unsuited cards. If you are dealt at least one 10 or an 11, or one or more is on the board, it cuts into both your odds of having suited cards pre-flop and of there being three or more to a suit on the board.You think you've beat everyone to the punch--fine. Are you one of those guys who JUST knows numbers, or can you back it up at the tables? (Oh yes I did.)I have a ton of statistics that detail exactly what the percentages are of hitting a flush and the chart above illustrates the expected differences based on outs. You seem awfully confident in your ability to crunch numbers... Great, then you should :pwn: at the tables this week. My screen name is caholdem. Bring a lot of money.

[jmkiser 0]

UH OH!!!!!!1111it is the return of the all-American **** fight.....

[zsta2k6 0]

Try the game when it's live this week. http://www.letspoker.com/howtoplay_cali_holdem.htmlStatistics manipulation? I'm just not going to get into it with you, but the fact of the matter is that the additional 8 cards in the deck do in fact change the odds significantly. Think about it... There are eight more cards. The chance of me drawing out on you decrease because there are eight more cards in the deck that are not the cards I need to catch... The chances of the flush are diminished more because of the eight unsuited cards. If you are dealt at least one 10 or an 11, or one or more is on the board, it cuts into both your odds of having suited cards pre-flop and of there being three or more to a suit on the board.You think you've beat everyone to the punch--fine. Are you one of those guys who JUST knows numbers, or can you back it up at the tables? (Oh yes I did.)I have a ton of statistics that detail exactly what the percentages are of hitting a flush and the chart above illustrates the expected differences based on outs. You seem awfully confident in your ability to crunch numbers... Great, then you should :pwn: at the tables this week. My screen name is caholdem. Bring a lot of money.

I see I'm making progress... someone is becoming more agitated and less civil... and the standard donk challenge has been issued.There isnt statistics manupulation so much as it is being presented in a misleading way, you would make a good polititian.once again, something I've already posted to reinforce my pointOdds of hitting a flush draw on the river in texas holdem: 19.57% (9 outs/46 cards)Odds of hitting a flush draw on the river in other holdem: 16.67% (9 outs/54 cards)and, to follow your lead.. I'll quote something really gay...."You got served!!"Edit: Also, dont you think calling it the only direct competitor to holdem is a little big headed? ever hear of omaha? pinapple? etc...

[californiaholdem 0]

I see I'm making progress... someone is becoming more agitated and less civil... and the standard donk challenge has been issued.There isnt statistics manupulation so much as it is being presented in a misleading way, you would make a good polititian.once again, something I've already posted to reinforce my pointOdds of hitting a flush draw on the river in texas holdem: 19.57% (9 outs/46 cards)Odds of hitting a flush draw on the river in other holdem: 16.67% (9 outs/54 cards)and, to follow your lead.. I'll quote something really gay...."You got served!!" Edit: Also, dont you think calling it the only direct competitor to holdem is a little big headed? ever hear of omaha? pinapple? etc...

You're wrong on the flushes. The chart I gave is purely based on "outs." Remember that two out of the fifteen cards are unsuited. You have to factor in the reduced odds of both having two suited cards pre-flop and the reduced chance of there being three cards to a suit on a board on the flop. Yes, you have 9/54 outs if you have two to your suit on the flop and two of that suit in your hand. I'll tell you right now from a year's worth of play... Flushes are a rarity -- by design. I found that in the later stages of tournaments, the biggest detriment to good players were people chasing flush draws without proper odds. Since with no other outs, the odds are 36% you're going to get stung if someone pushes that draw.I keep saying -- play the game... You'll see. And again if you think you have such a grasp on the odds here, then you should have an advantage.As far as my being less civil... I've been playing this game for a year. Top pros have been playing this for several months... I'm not at liberty to say whom for the most part, but I will name one so it doesn't sound like I'm making it up. Johnny Chan is a HUGE fan of the game. Loves it -- so much that we're trying to find ways to work together. I've been dealing with haters from the word "go." I'm a guy with a dream and through a lot of hard work it's ready to launch. You can hate the game all you want on paper, I'm cool with that. Just try it. There's no need to make a deposit. Play for free. You'll even get a free deck shipped to you when you create your account. In the end, all I can say is that the game accomplishes what it set out to do. I can argue it until the end of days, but just realize that my product is going to live or die by its appeal. Judge for yourself, but not by vollying with me about the theory. There was a time for that.I'm caholdem on Let's Poker. I invite you to come call me a donk or trash the game to me directly in the chat at the table, provided you give it a chance. Hopefully you'll play in one of the freeroll tournaments and you'll let me know who you are and that you're there.And honestly, I do value what you have to say. The interesting thing about this whole concept is that it's been an unphill battle from the beginning, with people telling me I'm nuts from day one... And yet I managed to get this far, despite the odds, with the backing of a lot of great people. I'm just tired of arguing, frankly. I'm excited now. I want to share the game, not debate about it.Hope you're there.

[rockytrh 0]

My question is simply this:why? why add cards? why attempt to change the most popular poker game? why even compete? california he will totally kill the fish population because drawing is harder to do. thats what fish do, they draw when the don't have po, but when they hit, they will come back for more

[californiaholdem 0]

My question is simply this:why? why add cards? why attempt to change the most popular poker game? why even compete? california he will totally kill the fish population because drawing is harder to do. thats what fish do, they draw when the don't have po, but when they hit, they will come back for more

There's a discussion of the fish factor on my blog. The fact is, they won't disappear.www.myspace.com/californiaholdemPlus, to summarize... There are two main reasons for the game...1) The market has been oversaturated by one game. My game allows players to test skills in new ways. Reads and calculating pot odds are more important, which creates more strata between skill levels. Especially in tournaments, skilled players will go deeper into the field more often. Lots of info. on my My Space page and on www.californiaholdem.tv2) This makes a lot of sense to the industry. There are several hundred online sites and hundreds of brick and mortar casinos, all of which struggle to find ways to both attract players and then hold them. My game is protected, so I can limit where it is licensed. This means that if there is a community of people who like to play the game, those players can be coralled in the few spots that offer it. This insulates from aggressive competitors willing to drop their drawers with promotions. It also creates brand loyalty.

[Abbaddabba 0]

There's a discussion of the fish factor on my blog. The fact is, they won't disappear.

Of course they wont.They're the ones who would go for a game like this.They're frustrated that they cant beat low stakes hold em and blame it on the "fish" for "chasing". It sounds like it could be ok. But i mean, so could a million other arbitrary changes to the game. I'd play it if it was offered on the site that i play at, but i wouldnt sign up somewhere new to try it.

2) This makes a lot of sense to the industry. There are several hundred online sites and hundreds of brick and mortar casinos, all of which struggle to find ways to both attract players and then hold them. My game is protected, so I can limit where it is licensed. This means that if there is a community of people who like to play the game, those players can be coralled in the few spots that offer it. This insulates from aggressive competitors willing to drop their drawers with promotions. It also creates brand loyalty.

So what you mean to say is that you have a monopoly on your lemon.

[rockytrh 0]

My game is protected, so I can limit where it is licensed.

hey, i just made a new game, you keep all the cards in the deck and add 4 11 and 4 12 cards. The 11 and 12 cards have no suit, play as you want

[californiaholdem 0]

So what you mean to say is that you have a monopoly on your lemon.

I just love message boards. It gives little tiny people an invisible wall to hide behind. Do you live in a community? Would you tell a neighbor something like that when he was describing a business he's toiled over for a year? Far be it from me to tell you how to live and I realize this is the Internet, but I can't stand your generation. (I'm 34 and I assume you're much younger.)It's not even so much that you don't have respect. It's the lack of decency, frankly, that disturbs me.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I just love message boards. It gives little tiny people an invisible wall to hide behind. Do you live in a community? Would you tell a neighbor something like that when he was describing a business he's toiled over for a year? Far be it from me to tell you how to live and I realize this is the Internet, but I can't stand your generation. (I'm 34 and I assume you're much younger.)It's not even so much that you don't have respect. It's the lack of decency, frankly, that disturbs me.

Clearly your game is so successful that you have time banter with the losers on the FCP forum. Rock on, man.

[Abbaddabba 0]

I just love message boards. It gives little tiny people an invisible wall to hide behind. Do you live in a community? Would you tell a neighbor something like that when he was describing a business he's toiled over for a year?

It took you years to add "11s" and "12s" to a standard deck of cards? You're right. If this was a neighbor telling me on friendly terms, i wouldnt insult his ideas. If some guy came to my door and gave me as long winded a sales pitch as you have here, i definitely would tell him what i thought.

hey, i just made a new game, you keep all the cards in the deck and add 4 11 and 4 12 cards. The 11 and 12 cards have no suit, play as you want

I have a better idea. Intead of 11s and 12s, my game includes 1s and jokers. Jokers are the highest rank, 1s are the lowest. they can be used for straights, but not flushes. ZOMG. the sequel will include 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s all the way through 25s. This will give good players like us an even bigger edge against those fish who take all my moneys by chasing backdoor gutshots!!!!

[rockytrh 0]

It took you years to add "11s" and "12s" to a standard deck of cards?

beat me too it

[zsta2k6 0]

You're wrong on the flushes. The chart I gave is purely based on "outs." Remember that two out of the fifteen cards are unsuited. You have to factor in the reduced odds of both having two suited cards pre-flop and the reduced chance of there being three cards to a suit on a board on the flop. Yes, you have 9/54 outs if you have two to your suit on the flop and two of that suit in your hand. I'll tell you right now from a year's worth of play... Flushes are a rarity -- by design. I found that in the later stages of tournaments, the biggest detriment to good players were people chasing flush draws without proper odds. Since with no other outs, the odds are 36% you're going to get stung if someone pushes that draw.I keep saying -- play the game... You'll see. And again if you think you have such a grasp on the odds here, then you should have an advantage.As far as my being less civil... I've been playing this game for a year. Top pros have been playing this for several months... I'm not at liberty to say whom for the most part, but I will name one so it doesn't sound like I'm making it up. Johnny Chan is a HUGE fan of the game. Loves it -- so much that we're trying to find ways to work together. I've been dealing with haters from the word "go." I'm a guy with a dream and through a lot of hard work it's ready to launch. You can hate the game all you want on paper, I'm cool with that. Just try it. There's no need to make a deposit. Play for free. You'll even get a free deck shipped to you when you create your account. In the end, all I can say is that the game accomplishes what it set out to do. I can argue it until the end of days, but just realize that my product is going to live or die by its appeal. Judge for yourself, but not by vollying with me about the theory. There was a time for that.I'm caholdem on Let's Poker. I invite you to come call me a donk or trash the game to me directly in the chat at the table, provided you give it a chance. Hopefully you'll play in one of the freeroll tournaments and you'll let me know who you are and that you're there.And honestly, I do value what you have to say. The interesting thing about this whole concept is that it's been an unphill battle from the beginning, with people telling me I'm nuts from day one... And yet I managed to get this far, despite the odds, with the backing of a lot of great people. I'm just tired of arguing, frankly. I'm excited now. I want to share the game, not debate about it.Hope you're there.

I have nothing against you or your game, and I have been nothing but semi-civil in my arguments, and I have said nothing malicious about the game. My only problem is how you seem to be presenting it as this safe haven for players sick of donks chasing draws, when, in reality, it should only effect the game preflop, as if the draw comes on the flop, which it will at least 80% of the time it does in texas holdem, the donks will still chase as the odds of the draw hitting aren't changed significantly. If I saw more of an attempt to prove what you are backing with straight numbers, I would back off, but all I see is propaganda and misleading numbers to those who may not know better. I do think it is an interesting premise and will probably try it out, if for no other reason then to try to prove myself right. Good luck with this, but I think you may attract more players with straight facts rather than propaganda.

[alf13 0]

What fun is this?Part of why I like Poker is that it isn't so mechanical.The complete donkey that makes a dumbass move and then sucks out on your top set with a runner runner straight is part of Holdem's charm.You want a more mechanical game? Play PLO...play it mechanically...make millions..there are enough bad PLO players around for everyone.But suckouts...are poker...

[Abbaddabba 0]

I'd try it too.But then, i'd try a game if someone added a 5th suit to the deck. I'd try it if someone added jokers deck. I'd even try a game that added nerf foam ball guns to shoot at each other in between (or during) play.

[zsta2k6 0]

I'd even try a game that added nerf foam ball guns to shoot at each other in between (or during) play.

I'm heading down to the patent office right now... thanks sucka!!

[californiaholdem 0]

It took you years to add "11s" and "12s" to a standard deck of cards? You're right. If this was a neighbor telling me on friendly terms, i wouldnt insult his ideas. If some guy came to my door and gave me as long winded a sales pitch as you have here, i definitely would tell him what i thought.

I don't mind that you give your opinions. That's not the problem. And it's up to you whether or not you entertain my "long winded sales pitch." To use your analogy, it would be more like if someone did come to your door, you'd let them in, listen to the entire pitch, then start rummaging through his products, telling him how they suck and how much he sucks for being there. Then you'd tell him he's going to fail and revel I suppose in his reaction... When at the end of the day, all they guy's trying to do is eek out a living and you can choose whether to buy or not. You can say "no thanks" at the door.The irony here is that I'm hardly a door-to-door salesman or a telemarketer. I have a product and I'm trying to get the word out.And about your sarcastic clapping that it took me a year to add some cards to a deck...Let me educate you for a second about how difficult it is to start a business... 1) It cost me several thousand dollars and months to pursue to patent and trademarks. You have to file these both domestically and in a number of foreign territories. It's not easy and it takes a lot of effort to do it right.2) It took months to write a detailed business plan. The orginal plan was to build a site and I found partners here and abroad. I did months of technical and legal research and ended up concluding that starting a site had too many legal risks, so peeled back to the licensing model.3) It took me months to court and sell Poker Royalty on the merits of the game. They have turned dozen dozens of other games, but their players liked this a lot. I had prepared professional presentations and put together a top-flight management team and board of advisors, which took countless meetings and more money and time to form a corporation and staff it with capable, accomplished business people4) I have made endless trips to Vegas meeting with industry haunchos and forming deals, none of them I'm ready to announce, besides the Let's Poker deal that brings the game to market online this week5) I spend thousands of dollars on having decks designed and produced6) I have met with several top players and am in negotiations to attach some, who are fans, to the game. I have had to have lawyers draft and redraft countless contracts.It's pretty obvious that you've never started a business... Because doing so is never as simple as "adding cards to a deck."Look, I don't expect you to be a customer. But I saw a valid need for the changes I made after being knocked out of some tournaments in the late stages because of donkey calls made against me. Will I profit at Texas Hold'em in the long-term? Yes. Does that mean that such beats don't matter? No. After getting six or eight hours into a tournament, the fact that I will eventually win my share isn't good enough. I wanted more order, more incentive for donkeys to fold marginal hands.The results after having test marketed this extensively throughout the country is that the game works. And personally speaking, I have invested a great deal of time and effort into this. Does that mean I'm above criticsm? No. But you see that kid in my avatar? That's my son. If the business were to fail, which hey, it could, it sets me back. I have other businesses and I'm doing just fine, but it would be a set-back. So forgive me about being sensitive when some jerk casually casts aspesions on my game and me personally without even having the common decency to try the product first... It's beyond rude. It's damaging.I would never do such a thing to you, had you started a business of your own. And someday maybe you will and you'll see how challenging it is and how much it sucks to have people be so negative without regard for what others have gone through or are going through in trying to build a better life.