antistuff 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is CO with K:diamond:, K:club:. UTG calls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (10 SB) Q:club:, T:spade:, 5:diamond: (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.Turn: (8 BB) 9:heart: (3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG folds.River: (10 BB) T:heart: (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 14 BBSB is kinda loose (28.6). Am I ever raised here by something that I beat?That nine on the turn doesnt sit well with me considering his play on the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 getting 13:1 after a scare card... it's an automatic call for meit's a bluff more often that that.good to know if you have any reads on his tendencies; but barring x-ray vision, I'm callinglook it's poker, you can't control the cards, sometimes ( a lot of times ) you lose here, so what... Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 Is this really such an automatic value bet? I think the way the hand played out on this river I'm beat more often than not. Every single time I'm beat Im getting checkraised from this opponent. He does not have a 5. The only hand I'm getting called with is qx. But I think youre right, if I bet and he raises I have to call. So I win one if I'm ahead and lose two if I'm behind. Occasionaly he will be bluffing, and occasionaly he won't checkraise with a winning hand (trip 10s scared of a straight maybe). I don't know how to make gueses at percentages and figure it out, but I think I might have screwed up by betting in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Is this really such an automatic value bet?it's a tough bet.the call is automatic for me at this level, thoughwhether to bet or not in first palce has much to do with your read.If he's a loose callnig station, easy bet.If he's a rock, not so easy. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 The river is that bad a card?I'd assume the river checkraise made you gag on your own bile not the river. As is its a pretty easy value bet and you have to call as the pot is huge. Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 The river is that bad a card?No my confusion in what to do silly.The turn was a much worse card.Its an easy value bet if you play like I do and just blindly value bet every river where you have something good under the assumption your opponents are morons. Your opponents, even if they suck, are not morons and I would like to advance my play beyond this stage, but I'm scared I might start out thinking myself. Im not convinced a bet here is correct against every opponent. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Im not convinced a bet here is correct against every opponent.as Actuary stated above it can dependw/ no reads, it's a bet, easy. Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 Im not convinced a bet here is correct against every opponent.as Actuary stated above it can dependw/ no reads, it's a bet, easy. :-) Link to post Share on other sites
pokerkid 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 whether to bet or not in first palce has much to do with your read.If he's a loose callnig station, easy bet.If he's a rock, not so easy.I actually think it's the other way around. If he's a loose calling station he's much more likely to call down to the river with a 10. If he's a rock I don't think he calls down here with anything less than Qx.I'd bet it against the rock and i'd bet it against the calling station as well, but I think the calling station has a 10 here more often than the rock does.I understand the fact that you get more calls with trash (besides a ten) here from the calling station. But any rock calls with Qx and you still beat that. P.S If you had AQ or KQ here the river bet is closer, but with KK i don't think the bet on the river is even near close. Make TP pay you off here. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerkid 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 So I win one if I'm ahead and lose two if I'm behind. Occasionaly he will be bluffing, and occasionaly he won't checkraise with a winning hand (trip 10s scared of a straight maybe). I don't know how to make gueses at percentages and figure it out, but I think I might have screwed up by betting in the first place.You have to be ahead here more than 2/3 of the time to justify a raise. (I think... so actuary back me up here) Link to post Share on other sites
pokerkid 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I probably should have consolidated this and my last two posts, but oh well...To the OP, I garuntee if you didn't leave sb's check/raise in the hand, everyone would've told you to raise this river. you should've just done something like this:River: (10 BB) T (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets...?Honestly Actuary, I don't even think it's as close as your making it sound. We're ahead of top pair here! I also think ur being affected by results oriented thinking a bit (I don't mean to be an ass... I'm just saying). Link to post Share on other sites
Emptyeye 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Yeah, I'm scared of the 9 on the turn much more than the board pairing tens on the river.This is a pretty easy bet/call for me. It's definitely a bluff enough times that I think it's profitable (Maybe it's selective memory, but lately I seem to be running into this situation [Where someone bluff raises and/or bluff check/raises me on the river] a lot. It's strange, because I don't think I've ever bet/folded on the river except in a Clarkmeister situation, and I certainly don't do it often enough that anyone who's paying attention might think I would actually fold on the river for one more bet.) Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I probably should have consolidated this and my last two posts, but oh well...To the OP, I garuntee if you didn't leave sb's check/raise in the hand, everyone would've told you to raise this river. you should've just done something like this:River: (10 BB) T (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets...?Honestly Actuary, I don't even think it's as close as your making it sound. We're ahead of top pair here! I also think ur being affected by results oriented thinking a bit (I don't mean to be an ass... I'm just saying).I agree with this 100%. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Super easy bet.Pretty easy call.What's villians most likely hand on the river?Are we ahead here more than 67% of the time?I'm with Actuary 100% here. Link to post Share on other sites
TJ_Eckleburg 0 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 A huuuuuuuge part of your winrate at low stakes is to just keep firing with winners. Playing defense is important, and relentlessly value-betting bad players is important.Yeah, for the c/r we're probably losing here. But you can't wuss out on the river just because the board pairs under you, and you'll make a lot more money betting... every... single... time, and calling the c/r. Link to post Share on other sites
Briguy 0 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I call the river C/R. I expect to see QT or T9 often enough, but not 1 time in 12. If he has KJ, put him on your buddylist under "likes to give away free cards when holding the current nuts". Link to post Share on other sites
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