can you fold kings before the flop?

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

I did it just ten minutes ago. Multiple raises prelfop, two all ins in from of me with fairly deep stacks. Turns out I had the best hand, was queens vs jacks. Dude ended up tripping jacks so I felt better about myself.

[iggymcfly 0]

You can construe a situation where you should lay down kings (it's a tournament, blah blah blah) but in a cash game...no. Just get used to eating it when you run into aces and plan on reloading. If you can't reload, you're playing too high.Now, postflop, this changes. This is one of the reasons I don't like pushing preflop.

Well, this is bad advice. You should actually be more likely to fold kings since you can get much deeper stacked. If you've got 300 bb in front of you, you're against a tight opponent who's got you covered, and you're willing to give up your whole stack under any circumstance with KK, you've got a leak in your game.

[fckthis 0]

You can construe a situation where you should lay down kings (it's a tournament, blah blah blah) but in a cash game...no. Just get used to eating it when you run into aces and plan on reloading. If you can't reload, you're playing too high.Now, postflop, this changes. This is one of the reasons I don't like pushing preflop.

Well, this is bad advice. You should actually be more likely to fold kings since you can get much deeper stacked. If you've got 300 bb in front of you, you're against a tight opponent who's got you covered, and you're willing to give up your whole stack under any circumstance with KK, you've got a leak in your game.

If you ever lay down kings in a game, w/o a solid read, you honestly suck.

[pete_95973 0]

I did it just ten minutes ago. Multiple raises prelfop, two all ins in from of me with fairly deep stacks. Turns out I had the best hand, was queens vs jacks. Dude ended up tripping jacks so I felt better about myself.

You shouldn't. It was a terrible fold. Folding KK when it is good is a far bigger mistake than calling against AA even when you suspect he may have it.

[Eastwood Jr. 0]

Kings run into aces once every 24 times you hold them approx.

For some reason I had it in my brain it was about 1 in 40 times. Can someone confirm/deny?Mark

1 in 24 sounds about right for a full table game.

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

I did it just ten minutes ago. Multiple raises prelfop, two all ins in from of me with fairly deep stacks. Turns out I had the best hand, was queens vs jacks. Dude ended up tripping jacks so I felt better about myself.

You shouldn't. It was a terrible fold. Folding KK when it is good is a far bigger mistake than calling against AA even when you suspect he may have it.

ummm.Thanks a lot buddy. If you don't make big laydowns once in a while, you're not really thinking. Was it a mistake? Perhaps. Terrible? not remotely. Iggy understands stack depth.

[tryptout 0]

In a cash game I would lay down KK after he went all in. Even if I had put in a much as you already did (because, like you said you still would have had $150) My experience in cash games is that the 4th reraise before the flop is AA 99.99% of the time.

Doesn't Phil Gordon say this also? Ok, that's a joke. Tough, because that 4th raise from a solid tight player basically screams aces. And he's got you covered. Personally, I can fold. I'll probably need an extended smoke break, but I can live with it. Then again, if there's any wiggle room in your read on the player, then like you say you're getting a not too-terrible price to call, but that's after you more-or-less priced yourself in. You could only wish that either a.) you hadn't re-raised quite so much; or b.) the stacks were even bigger and you wouldn't feel stuck on it. The problem is, I don't see what a re-raise to $60 or even $80 would accomplish there. Could you have got off it if you'd re-raised to $90 and then he pushed?Oh, and you're supposed to suck out.

[AceyDeucy 0]

You can construe a situation where you should lay down kings (it's a tournament, blah blah blah) but in a cash game...no. Just get used to eating it when you run into aces and plan on reloading. If you can't reload, you're playing too high.Now, postflop, this changes. This is one of the reasons I don't like pushing preflop.

Well, this is bad advice. You should actually be more likely to fold kings since you can get much deeper stacked. If you've got 300 bb in front of you, you're against a tight opponent who's got you covered, and you're willing to give up your whole stack under any circumstance with KK, you've got a leak in your game.

If you are in a situation where you are genuinely afraid enough of losing your money that you will lay down kings, you need to cash out and take your winnings home. If you ran up your intial buy-in to 300BB once, you can do it again (unless you cleaned out the fish and the table got tough, in which case you should be cashing out anyway). Regardless the recurring theme here is that if you can't stand to lose what you have on the table, you should not be playing.As I said, you can always contrue some elaborate situation. I suppose if you were in a cash game with 1,000,000 BB and there was one player with 1,000,001 BB and everyone else had 10,000BB and you had your case money on the table, then maybe you think about folding, if you know that the other chipzilla would ONLY risk it on aces...But, if you have 300BB and are getting it all in preflop, you are probably making some other errors as well. Regardless, laying down kings is incredibly weak, and if you let yourself get pushed off that hand, you will get robbed blind, deaf, dumb, and insensate.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Maybe.If you're exceptionally deep stacked, and so is the villain, maybe. And only then if you have an incredible read, or, he happens to turn his hand face up.Kings run into aces from time to time, I don't make it a habit to fold Kings preflop.

Remember DN did the same thing a few months back in a tourney thinking he had some guy read for aces, and the guy turns up QQ instead after DN folds? Kings run into aces once every 24 times you hold them approx. Play them for the nuts, and that 24th time when you actually run into aces... well, you at least have a 1 in 5 chance of sucking out trips.

Well said joe,

Not sure why any of this was directed at me. I said maybe, if he happens to turn his cards face up, then I would.

[tobytobey 0]

No

[tobytobey 0]

No

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I'm pretty sure I'd get dumber if I read this whole thread... so I just skimmed it, and I think this needs to be reiterated.

I know it's a very rare play but if the stacks are deep enough can you fold kings before the flop?No.Stop asking.good luck.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I'm pretty sure I'd get dumber if I read this whole thread... so I just skimmed it, and I think this needs to be reiterated.

I know it's a very rare play but if the stacks are deep enough can you fold kings before the flop?No.Stop asking.good luck.

I wish Smash would post more here.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I wish he would too, but there's a lot of stupidity in this forum he'd have to put up with if he did.The problem with having any success at all in limit hold'em (and smash has a lot) is it naturally makes you a limit hold'em intellectual elitist. It's a much more analytical, mathematical game, and us NL players like to just whip it out on the table and see who's is biggest.They don't mix well with us plebian no limit players.I love both games... but I always worry if I work on one too much it'll cost me in the other.I broke a 6-max NL table last night. Feels good to be alive.

[Blink20 0]

Ah, its been a while since I posted, this is a good enough thread to splash back in here.You can only fold Kings preflop when you are absolutely certain your opponent has pocket Aces. Simple enough, right? Well, you are almost never in a situation you can put your opponent on only aces. You need to be playing against the tightest weakest mouse of all to know that their reraise means aces. You have to know for certain that would be the only hand they would push on.So 95% of the time or greater, you are getting your money in there with kings. So it comes down to money management, you could call all in kings preflop every day all day and maybe one day you will run into aces three times in a session, it happens, so you gotta have enough of a bankroll to withstand losing some buy ins. Don't sweat it.Never worry about losing a buyin in situations like these. Set over sets, overpair vs overpair, someone catching a flush, etc etc, they are no limit and any sort of poker's inevitabilities which you should be able to just shrug off.Long story short, to the op's situation, you're playing your kings, esp live. You see his aces, the board doesn't help, dealer yells out, "chips on table 11" and you keep playing solid and getting your money in where it should get in.GL at the tables.