blinds ridiculously high

[zimmer4141 0]

Late in Party tourney, blinds 1500/3000.I have 24000 and QJs in CO. I raise to 6000, button and SB fold, BB pushes for 19k total. What do I do here? There is 27k in the pot, and I have to call 13k more. I really wrestled with this decision, and don't know if I played it correctly from the start.

[gobears 0]

With an M of barely above 5 or 8xBB, I think that you have to push or fold. I would push there with QJs.After the min-raise, that's a tough hand to play. You're behind but by how much? BB with an M barely above 4 could play a wide range. I think that I would have to call this getting 2.1-1.

[copernicus 0]

Push instead of raising, call. Unlikely that you are overall much worse than 2:1 and trusting gobears math its a go.

[pokerplayer24 0]

Call. As is min raising for 1/4 your stack is a mistake. With a hand like QJs just push and it makes your decision process a lot easier. As is I think this is a spot where if you win it gives you some room to work as you'll be around 50k and its pretty unlikely that you're way behind here. Usually have 2 middle cards on some sort of Ax or racing vs a low pp- mid pp.

[HoosierAlum 0]

Have to push or fold preflop. Im jamming every time.

[mk 11]

i might limp with this in the given situation. 1.) the blinds will often think you're getting cute with a monster, allowing you to scoop on any flop. 2.) this is a hand that obviously likes to see flops3.) it allows you to get away relatively cheaply if someone jams preflop.4.) any pf raise that isn't jamming commits you anyway (e.g. the situation presented)i think a limp in this situation has an excellent risk/reward ratio.

[copernicus 0]

i might limp with this in the given situation. 1.) the blinds will often think you're getting cute with a monster, allowing you to scoop on any flop. 2.) this is a hand that obviously likes to see flops3.) it allows you to get away relatively cheaply if someone jams preflop.4.) any pf raise that isn't jamming commits you anyway (e.g. the situation presented)i think a limp in this situation has an excellent risk/reward ratio.

Limping saves you from a push by a small stack looking for "almost first in vigorish" with a weak hand, but its more likely to encourage than scare away a push from Ax/broadway hand since he's never a big dog even if you do have the monster, and more than likely your limp is weakness.

[akaTonyG 0]

hand selectivity is key at this point in the tourney for you. I would have layed down the hand preflop. 24 000 in chips with the blinds 1500 3000 is alot of chips. i wouldnt worry until your down to 15 000 before you need to push. that gives you a couple rounds

[copernicus 0]

hand selectivity is key at this point in the tourney for you. I would have layed down the hand preflop. 24 000 in chips with the blinds 1500 3000 is alot of chips. i wouldnt worry until your down to 15 000 before you need to push. that gives you a couple rounds

Disagree. First in vigorish is key at this point in the tourney with an M of 5+, especially with BB sitting waiting for First in vigorish himself.If you wait till 15k and then start looking for first in vigorish and get it immediately the pot is 19500 and the BB has 12K to call, which is nearly automatic, unlikely to be worse than a 60/40 dog. If you get to 15k and are still waiting for a hand with better than a 60/40 edge you are likely to be down to 10,500 and every call is automatic.

[akaTonyG 0]

hand selectivity is key at this point in the tourney for you. I would have layed down the hand preflop. 24 000 in chips with the blinds 1500 3000 is alot of chips. i wouldnt worry until your down to 15 000 before you need to push. that gives you a couple rounds

Disagree. First in vigorish is key at this point in the tourney with an M of 5+, especially with BB sitting waiting for First in vigorish himself.If you wait till 15k and then start looking for first in vigorish and get it immediately the pot is 19500 and the BB has 12K to call, which is nearly automatic, unlikely to be worse than a 60/40 dog. If you get to 15k and are still waiting for a hand with better than a 60/40 edge you are likely to be down to 10,500 and every call is automatic.

the key to tournaments is survival. if your are gonn aplay j Q here with a min raise and dump 6000 then either you dont play the hand or you push your whole stack

[copernicus 0]

hand selectivity is key at this point in the tourney for you. I would have layed down the hand preflop. 24 000 in chips with the blinds 1500 3000 is alot of chips. i wouldnt worry until your down to 15 000 before you need to push. that gives you a couple rounds

Disagree. First in vigorish is key at this point in the tourney with an M of 5+, especially with BB sitting waiting for First in vigorish himself.If you wait till 15k and then start looking for first in vigorish and get it immediately the pot is 19500 and the BB has 12K to call, which is nearly automatic, unlikely to be worse than a 60/40 dog. If you get to 15k and are still waiting for a hand with better than a 60/40 edge you are likely to be down to 10,500 and every call is automatic.

the key to tournaments is survival. if your are gonn aplay j Q here with a min raise and dump 6000 then either you dont play the hand or you push your whole stack

Agreed, thats why virtually everyone, including me, said push.

[HoosierAlum 0]

hand selectivity is key at this point in the tourney for you. I would have layed down the hand preflop. 24 000 in chips with the blinds 1500 3000 is alot of chips. i wouldnt worry until your down to 15 000 before you need to push. that gives you a couple rounds

Disagree. First in vigorish is key at this point in the tourney with an M of 5+, especially with BB sitting waiting for First in vigorish himself.If you wait till 15k and then start looking for first in vigorish and get it immediately the pot is 19500 and the BB has 12K to call, which is nearly automatic, unlikely to be worse than a 60/40 dog. If you get to 15k and are still waiting for a hand with better than a 60/40 edge you are likely to be down to 10,500 and every call is automatic.

the key to tournaments is survival. if your are gonn aplay j Q here with a min raise and dump 6000 then either you dont play the hand or you push your whole stack

Actually the key to tournaments is accumulating chips. But you can believe its survival.

[copernicus 0]

akaTonyG...tell that to DN, Gus Hansen, Erick LindgrenHoosier....tell that to Dan Harrington, Howard Lederer, Phil HellmuthActually there an interesting post by Sirio11 (I think thats his screenname), a tourney pro who has a blog.He said his style has gravitated from survivalist toward accumulator, and he has increased his high finishes. Then he checked his ROI and found that despite the higher finishes the higher frequency of total misses more than offset and his ROI went down.In SnGs and small tourneys I think survivalist is the right approach. If you make it to the money you are never that far away from the chip leaders to not have a decent shot at moving up (especially if you are anygood HU).In huge tourneys I think the accumulators win out. There are too many minefields to cross to make it with a slowly building stack..someone is going to get you all in even though your a 70:30 favorite and youre going to get cracked sooner or later. And as you get closer to the money youre going to have to take more chances as the stacks smaller than you make their plays and some of them succeed and pass you.Better to push small edges and either get the big stack early or bust out and move on in the big ones, IMO.Of course a survivalist can get lucky early and become an accumulator just by the strength of his hands, not by strategy. He will swear up and down that survivalist is the right approach, when, in fact, it was just a preponderance of big hands early that got him there.

[gobears 0]

In huge tourneys I think the accumulators win out. There are too many minefields to cross to make it with a slowly building stack..someone is going to get you all in even though your a 70:30 favorite and youre going to get cracked sooner or later. And as you get closer to the money youre going to have to take more chances as the stacks smaller than you make their plays and some of them succeed and pass you.Better to push small edges and either get the big stack early or bust out and move on in the big ones, IMO..

I wonder if the pros with bigger bankrolls have an advantage in the big Sunday tourneys with big buyins. Would most amateurs play tighter and play more survivalist to try to make the money or are more amateurs willing to take risks a la the accumulator mode since they probably won their seat thru some cheap sat?I've read the thought that one should play ABC poker in the first hour but I think that is the time to take some chances, see more flops (especially on hands that can pay off big) to try to build up a stack.

[Jdr999 0]

In huge tourneys I think the accumulators win out. There are too many minefields to cross to make it with a slowly building stack..someone is going to get you all in even though your a 70:30 favorite and youre going to get cracked sooner or later. And as you get closer to the money youre going to have to take more chances as the stacks smaller than you make their plays and some of them succeed and pass you.Better to push small edges and either get the big stack early or bust out and move on in the big ones, IMO..

I wonder if the pros with bigger bankrolls have an advantage in the big Sunday tourneys with big buyins. Would most amateurs play tighter and play more survivalist to try to make the money or are more amateurs willing to take risks a la the accumulator mode since they probably won their seat thru some cheap sat?I've read the thought that one should play ABC poker in the first hour but I think that is the time to take some chances, see more flops (especially on hands that can pay off big) to try to build up a stack.

I feel the same way about the early levels in large field tournaments. Because of the starting chips compared to the blinds, the implied odds on hitting a monster hand with a marginal starting hand is huge.Early on, I'll play small pairs for a small raise pre-flop (3-5BB), and if I flop a set and someone else has a big hand, I double up. It's very easy to fold pocket 3's on a K-J-9 board, but it's hard to fold kings when the flop is 9-5-3

[mbreon 0]

Even though it has been said numerous times already, I agree with the push preflop. Pushing and folding are the only two options I would consider here.....