daniel and religion

[LAS22 0]

The point isn't about reliogion. You are right that a religion is a system of beliefs. Anyone can start a religion and decide that you should worship any object or being. Many of us are talking about a relationship with God.Religion divides vs. relationship with God that unites.

christianity has been extremely divisive since the time of jesus, certainly more than any other belief, so unless you are talking about having a relationship with some sort of "generic" god that has nothing to do with christianity or jesus you are contradicting yourself. i haven't noticed anyone in this thread talking generic. you cannot believe in jesus as the living son of god and the bible as being god's inspired word, and at the same time divorce yourself from any form of christian fundamentalism. if you do you are a hypocrite - might as well write your own bible.

I am talking about a personal relationship with Jesus, the one and only son of God. I just think too many people confuse religion and going to church, with having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.See I could care less if you stand, kneel, dance or roll around on the floor when you worship, I could care less if you take communion every week or once a month, those things don't matter to me.If you belive that Jesus is the son of God, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was beaten and crucified for my sins and will return again one day and they only way to inherrit the Kingdom of God is to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart. If we can agree with that, you are cool with me and don't have a problem calling you a brother or sister in Christ.

[crowTrobot 2]

If you belive that Jesus is the son of God, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was beaten and crucified for my sins and will return again one day and they only way to inherrit the Kingdom of God is to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart. If we can agree with that, you are cool with me and don't have a problem calling you a brother or sister in Christ.

speaking for the majority of humanity that doesn't believe that, that's a pretty divisive thing to say.

[BoBetter 0]

You know what book will really blow your hair back? The Power Of Myth, by Joseph Cambell.Basically he studied mythology and story telling, and how it relates to modern religion by studying across cultures. He studied everything from the American Indians (remember them?....oh yeah, manifest destiny basically killed off their entire race) to the Eskimos, to the far east, etc.It's weird when you look at history, humantiy, and the human mind without bias or fear, from a purely intellectual place.....you find truths that are more powerful than the imaginary tales used in mythology and religion.Is god real? Sure. Is the above poster's idea about jesus and the son of god real? Sure, it's as real as anything else, because the "idea" of it, is all that matters. God, and riteousness, are ideas in our minds and our imaginations. Cambell talks about this phenomemon and how it's played a role in humanity since the dawn of time. See, god is a feeling and an idea in our minds. It's us, at our best, and most riteous place. That is faith. The belief that the idea and capability is within us, not some imaginary place, or diety. Knowing that gives one freedom to really understand humanity and have compassion. These are things all religions try to accomplish, but from the wrong place, imho. It's simply amazing how similar the belief systems are across cultures, and how interchangeable they all really are. All the mythology and religions are similar in so many ways because they have one thing in common......the human imagination. We are all just a product of the thoughts and beliefs we decide are true for ourselves. The funny thing, is that there is no inherent, objective truth....because all mind decisions are subjective, and up to the individuals interpretation, and imagination.Life is but a dream. Dream is destiny.These are my beliefs.

[DarthTimmanus 0]

 Wow.  What year is it?  2005? No friggin way.  At least you revel in your superstitions, I guess.  I mean, wow.  You believe it cause the word of god tells you to?  Which one?  The severly edited, watered-down bible that we give to starving kids in place of food?  or maybe the Koran?  or the friggin USA today.  All equally the word of god.  There is one purpose to religion and one alone.  It uses a system of beliefs to attempt to spread a moral and ethical code.  Fortunately, this is no longer necessary as morals and ethics propagate on their own in the modern world.  In fact, if you rate country's based on the level of religious fundamentalism within it, the country's that have more, have more violence.  Religion has become a rationale for all kinds of terrible things (again not surprising when it is a system of belief based upon a fundamental mistake).  Long live Man....F God

It is amazing that it is the year 2005 and thanks to our smater society I am very comfortable with the word of God. The Bible, not the Koran or USA Today, is what I considered the Word of God. It is incredibly reliable and has been preserved with a small amount of Error. What makes the Bible special, I will try and tell you. First, it is a very unique book. It was Written over 1500 Years. Written over 40 Generations, Written from 40+ Authors, Written on 3 Continents: Asia, Africa, and Europe. Written in 3 Languages; Hebrews, Aramaic, and Greek.No Other book could make such a claim! With all the Different authors, it covers many different controversial topics in unity. It covers one major theme!!! The Major theme is the Story of Jesus Christ. Almost everything in the Old Testament points to Jesus, Everything in the New Tesatment either is a Record of his Life, Death and Resurrection, or letters on how to apply his Life, Death and Resurrection to daily Living.I gotta run to work, but if you want I can continue posting things about the Validity of the Bible. Or you can find the book called "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. He set out to try and discredit the Christian Faith by researching Empirical facts and Data. It is Organized without much conclusion (it contains more facts then preaching) so you can come to your own conclusion.

[DarthTimmanus 0]

You know what book will really blow your hair back?  The Power Of Myth, by Joseph Cambell.

I have studied Cambell before, very interesting work. I love studying Myth, which is one reason I really got into his works, as well as Star Wars. I also Love Tolkien, Lewis, and others like who were Very familiar with Myth and that is VERY evident through out any of their works... Just like Lucas in Star Wars.

[LAS22 0]

If you belive that Jesus is the son of God, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was beaten and crucified for my sins and will return again one day and they only way to inherrit the Kingdom of God is to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart.  If we can agree with that, you are cool with me and don't have a problem calling you a brother or sister in Christ.

speaking for the majority of humanity that doesn't believe that, that's a pretty divisive thing to say.

I wasn't speaking for anybody except myself. Everything I said in the post is straight from the Bible. They are not my thoughts, but God's. I will debate anybody ion the validity of those points.

[kk_rush 0]

speaking for the majority of humanity that doesn't believe that, that's a pretty divisive thing to say.

It may sound divisive but it is the basis of fundamentalist Christianity. A book I refer to skeptics is The Signature of God by Grant Jeffery (https://ww2.micahtek.com/nexolive/nShop_Detail.cfm?CFID=1582295&CFTOKEN=93630641). I don't necessary agree with EVERYTHING he says (e.g.) the Shroud of Turin, but he makes some interesting arguments.

[BoBetter 0]

You know what book will really blow your hair back?  The Power Of Myth, by Joseph Cambell.

I have studied Cambell before, very interesting work. I love studying Myth, which is one reason I really got into his works, as well as Star Wars. I also Love Tolkien, Lewis, and others like who were Very familiar with Myth and that is VERY evident through out any of their works... Just like Lucas in Star Wars.

and the bible......

[BoBetter 0]

If you belive that Jesus is the son of God, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was beaten and crucified for my sins and will return again one day and they only way to inherrit the Kingdom of God is to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart.  If we can agree with that, you are cool with me and don't have a problem calling you a brother or sister in Christ.

speaking for the majority of humanity that doesn't believe that, that's a pretty divisive thing to say.

I wasn't speaking for anybody except myself. Everything I said in the post is straight from the Bible. They are not my thoughts, but God's. I will debate anybody ion the validity of those points.

Did god write the bible? Wasn't it written by a whole group of people, over 70 years after Jesus Christ? I thought the stories were to be myth, and metaphor, not taken literally....

[DarthTimmanus 0]

You know what book will really blow your hair back? The Power Of Myth, by Joseph Cambell.

I have studied Cambell before, very interesting work. I love studying Myth, which is one reason I really got into his works, as well as Star Wars. I also Love Tolkien, Lewis, and others like who were Very familiar with Myth and that is VERY evident through out any of their works... Just like Lucas in Star Wars.

and the bible......

I do not know if when using the word Myth, we come to see the same thing. When conducting a Science experiment you have to define everything in grave detail so anyone who explores your research can understand what the heck your talking about. So let us Operationally define the word Myth.Myth- A Sacred story believed to be true.... Basic definition by Joeseph Campbell in Power of Myth videos with Bill Moyer.I think one problem that has arisen in common usage of the word Myth is that it implies Falsehood... Just because something is a Myth does not mean it is false. There are true Myths, there are false Myths, but there are ALWAYS myths. I would agree that you could call the story of Christ a Myth, but that does not imply falsehood.

[SLEEPYCHIEF 0]

Jesus and his teaching philosophies are great. Church is worst of the worst.

[DarthTimmanus 0]

Jesus and his teaching philosophies are great. Church is worst of the worst.

First I would like to say, yes Church does have alot of Problems... Some too crazy, some too conservative, some to vocal, some not vocal enough, some very accepting, some that ignore you if your not in your sunday best, some Boycott EVERYTHING, some say indulge in Everything...Church has a Bad rep if your not involved. Church as a Social function is trouble. Church should be there to help prepare people to understand the Word of God better, help them live out there daily life better, and accept with Love ANYONE who walks through the door. Church in the small spectrum is also a place for people to serve in and work in. When you start to get involved in church, you begin to realize that one reason that Churches look bad is because it is FILLED with imperfect people, like me, wanting to help others. One thing Daniel alluded to in that Blog is Church being the People. I think he is right. We go to a Chruch, but in all reality, every person who is a Christian is the Church as a whole. Not really goin anywhere with this.... Secondly, what Teaching Philosophies of Jesus were great? "No man may come to the father except through me?", "I am the true vine", "Turn the other Cheeck". My point is, alot of what he said was just Crazy talk if he was just a great Teacher of Philosophy. This is found in John 8: 23He said to them, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins." Jesus was talking to Jewish teachers at this time. Saying this to them should have got him stoned. It was Blasphemy to them. But he did not. That statement, as a great teacher, would be ludicris if he was not able to restore life for sins. If Christ himself was not able to raise himself from death, how could he raise others. If Christ was just a teacher, he was a horrible teacher. If Christ was the Messiah, and Only if he was, could he truely be the one who could forgive the payment of death for peoples sins.Again, I hope you dont mind me discussing.

[elaear 0]

i've always wondered...do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell? if so, what about people who have never been exposed to Christianity?

[Longshanks 0]

i've always wondered...do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell?  if so, what about people who have never been exposed to Christianity?

that is something nobody on this board can answer, talk to a pastor about it, it is a HUGE can of worms that I will not touch

[crowTrobot 2]

Almost everything in the Old Testament points to Jesus

that's because new testament authors used their knowledge of old testament texts to embellish their accounts of jesus' life. the whole jesus fulfilling old testament prophecy argument has been largely, if not entirely disproven by (neutral) biblical scholars.

[crowTrobot 2]

that is something nobody on this board can answer, talk to a pastor about it, it is a HUGE can of worms that I will not touch

it's more than a can of worms - it's (part of) a rather obvious major flaw in the plan of salvation as presented in the bible. if you talk to a pastor about it he'll just have to make up something to cover it up, which is what most christians do - gloss over the illogic of their belief for convenience.

[LAS22 0]

that is something nobody on this board can answer, talk to a pastor about it, it is a HUGE can of worms that I will not touch

it's more than a can of worms - it's (part of) a rather obvious major flaw in the plan of salvation as presented in the bible. if you talk to a pastor about it he'll just have to make up something to cover it up, which is what most christians do - gloss over the illogic of their belief for convenience.

What's your story Crow, you seem to take this whole discussion really personally and from a negative perspective?

[DarthTimmanus 0]

Almost everything in the Old Testament points to Jesus

that's because new testament authors used their knowledge of old testament texts to embellish their accounts of jesus' life. the whole jesus fulfilling old testament prophecy argument has been largely, if not entirely disproven by (neutral) biblical scholars.

I would be willing to enter this discussion. Where is the evidence for this statement? I want to know what ground they have to stand on. I am fairly familiar with the Jesus Seminar, who else? I had a friend just recently convert to Judiaism because of stuff like this. I am interested to know where you found this stuff out. Though if this is just your opinion based on things you have heard then I understand. I am interesed to hear this stuff.

[DarthTimmanus 0]

i've always wondered...do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell? if so, what about people who have never been exposed to Christianity?

If you would not mind, I love to research questions like this. I am not a Pastor, but am headed in that Direction. If you want to peacefully discuss something like this I am willing to explain what I believe. I do not know if what I would say would speak for Christians everywhere, but I would be willing to go for it. My answer would do its best to represent what the Bible says about this topic without explaining too much. I would try to let the text speak for itself. In my opinion it (the bible) is easy enough to understand. Give me sometime and I will post! Happy Holidays!!!

[crowTrobot 2]

What's your story Crow, you seem to take this whole discussion really personally and from a negative perspective?

it's not personal to me in the sense you mean, sorry if it sounds that way. religeous fundamentalism of any kind has a pretty bad track record for creating hopeless social boundaries and suppressing intellectualism throughout history. it is happening right now, and there's no reason to expect it not to continue. there is every indication that unless we can get past this it will be detrimental to our chances for long-term survival as a species. in other words there is a definite negative side to fundamentalist christian belief (or any other) for humanity as a whole, which i feel the need to point out in "feel good" threads like this. that's the angle i'm coming from.

[crowTrobot 2]

I would be willing to enter this discussion.  Where is the evidence for this statement?  I want to know what ground they have to stand on.  I am fairly familiar with the Jesus Seminar, who else?    I had a friend just recently convert to Judiaism because of stuff like this.  I am interested to know where you found this stuff out.  Though if this is just your opinion based on things you have heard then I understand.  I am interesed to hear this stuff.

yes, my opinion on stuff i have read, including the bible. it starts with the fact that there are too many obvious contraditions (and odd omissions) among the gospels both in events and against known jewish customs of the time for the gospels to be first hand accounts. i believe they are pretty clearly 2nd hand accounts at best, and must contain a lot of embellishment (to state it conservatively). if you are interested this problem is summarized pretty well and in an objective manner in the nat geo channel science of the bible series that is currently airing.

[LAS22 0]

What's your story Crow, you seem to take this whole discussion really personally and from a negative perspective?

it's not personal to me in the sense you mean, sorry if it sounds that way. religeous fundamentalism of any kind has a pretty bad track record for creating hopeless social boundaries and suppressing intellectualism throughout history. it is happening right now, and there's no reason to expect it not to continue. there is every indication that unless we can get past this it will be detrimental to our chances for long-term survival as a species. in other words there is a definite negative side to fundamentalist christian belief (or any other) for humanity as a whole, which i feel the need to point out in "feel good" threads like this. that's the angle i'm coming from.

I don't agree with you, but I can respect your opinion. Plus, this topic is always a good one to get an interesting discussion going on.

[brvheart 1,752]

Merry Christmas Everyone

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

I was reading Daniels journal and he talked about a discussion he had about religion. So, I was wondering what religion he believes. Does he believe in God?

His signature ends with "God bless." You do the math.

[davezz5 0]

Yes, faith is a good thing thing to have.If you ever want to take time out from poker, the following site is a good place for daily reflection and prayer.http://www.upperroom.org/devotional/Jay

maybe an existential approach to life and its accociated musings is a more constructive way forward........shuffle up and deal. 8)