daniel and religion

[elaear 0]

What's your story Crow, you seem to take this whole discussion really personally and from a negative perspective?

it's not personal to me in the sense you mean, sorry if it sounds that way. religeous fundamentalism of any kind has a pretty bad track record for creating hopeless social boundaries and suppressing intellectualism throughout history. it is happening right now, and there's no reason to expect it not to continue. there is every indication that unless we can get past this it will be detrimental to our chances for long-term survival as a species. in other words there is a definite negative side to fundamentalist christian belief (or any other) for humanity as a whole, which i feel the need to point out in "feel good" threads like this. that's the angle i'm coming from.

I don't agree with you, but I can respect your opinion. Plus, this topic is always a good one to get an interesting discussion going on.

to which part don't you agree? it sounded pretty spot on to me.

[elaear 0]

i've always wondered...do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell?  if so, what about people who have never been exposed to Christianity?

If you would not mind, I love to research questions like this. I am not a Pastor, but am headed in that Direction. If you want to peacefully discuss something like this I am willing to explain what I believe. I do not know if what I would say would speak for Christians everywhere, but I would be willing to go for it. My answer would do its best to represent what the Bible says about this topic without explaining too much. I would try to let the text speak for itself. In my opinion it (the bible) is easy enough to understand. Give me sometime and I will post! Happy Holidays!!!

since i have no intention of ever reading the bible, i'd love to hear your summary of what it is has to say about my questions.

[DarthTimmanus 0]

i've always wondered...do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell? if so, what about people who have never been exposed to Christianity?

If you would not mind, I love to research questions like this. I am not a Pastor, but am headed in that Direction. If you want to peacefully discuss something like this I am willing to explain what I believe. I do not know if what I would say would speak for Christians everywhere, but I would be willing to go for it. My answer would do its best to represent what the Bible says about this topic without explaining too much. I would try to let the text speak for itself. In my opinion it (the bible) is easy enough to understand. Give me sometime and I will post! Happy Holidays!!!

since i have no intention of ever reading the bible, i'd love to hear your summary of what it is has to say about my questions.

Give me some time to collect my thoughts and do some research...

[elaear 0]

Give me some time to collect my thoughts and do some research...

sure.

[Blankstare 0]

I could never say it better then this article.http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/200512_an...eist_manifesto/

[matthew r 0]

Christianity. Came about after his earlier crazy days of boozing. "A case for Christ" by Lee Strobel affected him deeply. Great book by the way.Fullhouse7

i would like to know where you read this, or some more specific info about "his earlier crazy days of boozing"... thanksand no, not just trying to be nosy...

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

To me, the core of my faith breaks down to this:The probability of even the complex protiens in the single celled organisms that some scientists claim we evolved from naturally occuring - even on a timeframe of billions of years - is mathematically about the same as your computer growing a mouth, eating you, and turning into a computer again. In short, it's impossible.Look around, look past the stuff that "pisses you off" about the world and really just sit in nature somewhere and look around. If after serious soul searching you can genuinely say that it all happenned accidentally and you refuse to accept that something or someone bigger than you didn't at least start it in motion, then I am truly amazed. Semantics and the sordid history of the "church" will of course turn you off to Christianity if you can't accept this simple point.Accept this point, and really look at Christ's teachings and past the fallen men trying to grasp something larger than themselves, and you may come to the same conclusion that I have. Living my life the way the Bible commands won't sap me of anything. When I die, I will have lived FOR something, tried to do good to my fellow man, enjoyed my life, and - if i'm right - spend eternity pretty dang happy. If I'm wrong, i still have a life that was great and had purpose.

[Nealyh_02 0]

Another interesting read is called Revolution by George Barna. It basically states that the current church setting is not meeting the needs of a lot of people. He looks into alternate ways of Christians worshipping God and not just relying on going to church on Sunday. It's very thought provoking.We are not called by God to GO to church, we are called by God to BE the church.

Frog in the kettle by Barna is not that bad either

[Nealyh_02 0]

I was reading Daniels journal and he talked about a discussion he had about religion. So, I was wondering what religion he believes. Does he believe in God?

I asked Daniel a while ago in a email about Christianity and poker...and how the two can go hand in hand...this was his response....I think it is pretty well thought out...I've been asked this question so many times in private e-mails that I think it's about time I address it here at the forum. I often have people ask me how I justify what I do and maintain my beliefs.Well,as another poster pointed out there is nothing in the Bible says that anything about gambling being a sin. Personally I think anything you do that becomes an obession can be sinful- eating too much, drinking too much, becoming obsessed with money, etc.As long as poker doesn't interfere with your relationship with God I don't see a problem with it. If you put gambling before God that would be a problem. If gambling is destroying your family, I see that as a problemI often get the argument that what I do isn't Godly, i.e. taking other peoples money. What endeavor or business would this not be true? You open a restaurant, that's a gamble. You get married, that's a gamble. You invest in the stock market, well we all know that's a gamble!I make my living by being better than my opponents at a game. Shaquille O'Neal does the same thing. He makes millions of dollars because he is better than hs opponents. Does he take money from people directly? Not exactly, but indirectly he does. He's the best player on his team and makes more money than they do. If other teammates improve their play they'll make more money.There are a million similar anologies you could use. Get a promotion at a company because you work harder than other employees. .. etc.It's not sinful to be rich. In fact in the Bible it states that some will have more than others. It's sinful to obssess about money and make it your God... I don't think I do that.Having said all that I do feel a moral obligation to use the gift I was given in a positive way. Whether it be to make a difference in someone's life or to aid those less fortunate.God Bless,Daniel Negreanu

[elaear 0]

To me, the core of my faith breaks down to this:The probability of even the complex protiens in the single celled organisms that some scientists claim we evolved from naturally occuring - even on a timeframe of billions of years - is mathematically about the same as your computer growing a mouth, eating you, and turning into a computer again. In short, it's impossible.Look around, look past the stuff that "censored you off" about the world and really just sit in nature somewhere and look around. If after serious soul searching you can genuinely say that it all happenned accidentally and you refuse to accept that something or someone bigger than you didn't at least start it in motion, then I am truly amazed. Semantics and the sordid history of the "church" will of course turn you off to Christianity if you can't accept this simple point.Accept this point, and really look at Christ's teachings and past the fallen men trying to grasp something larger than themselves, and you may come to the same conclusion that I have.

this (along with all "intelligent design" bullsh*t) is so so incredibly ignorant it infuriates me to no end. read "finding darwin's god" by kenneth miller, enlighten yourself about evolution, and feel dumb for ever thinking about what you just wrote.i'm sorry, but creationists piss me off.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Some scientists can come up with a way to make it sound plausible that it happenned by chance. I cannot accept that, and a large sect of legitimate science can't either.

[elaear 0]

Some scientists can come up with a way to make it sound plausible that it happenned by chance. I cannot accept that, and a large sect of legitimate science can't either.

no, you're absolutely wrong. show me a "scientist" who believes in creationism, and i'll show you a reject of the scientific community.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Unfortunately, we can play that game all day and at the end, I'm still an accountant without the scientific knowledge to debate you nor the time to acquire it. I have had significant discussions with friends who are doctors, as well as an atheist scientist who literally converted when he came to the realization that my original post centers around: we CANNOT be an accident and that there must be a greater power who had a hand in creating all of this.

[crowTrobot 2]

Unfortunately, we can play that game all day and at the end, I'm still an accountant without the scientific knowledge to debate you nor the time to acquire it. I have had significant discussions with friends who are doctors, as well as an atheist scientist who literally converted when he came to the realization that my original post centers around: we CANNOT be an accident and that there must be a greater power who had a hand in creating all of this.

how do you know you aren't all wrong then? in fact nobody knows if we are an "accident" or not and there is no firm evidence either way. however there is logical evidence that if there is a higher power he's not terribly interested in us individually.

[elaear 0]

Unfortunately, we can play that game all day and at the end, I'm still an accountant without the scientific knowledge to debate you nor the time to acquire it.  I have had significant discussions with friends who are doctors, as well as an atheist scientist who literally converted when he came to the realization that my original post centers around:  we CANNOT be an accident and that there must be a greater power who had a hand in creating all of this.

the problem in your thinking is that you have this notion that if evolution is a fact of nature (which it UNDOUBTEDLY is) then everyone might as well burn their churches down. well, that is not true. i myself am agnostic, yet i have no doubt that evolution is pure fact.i highly encourage you to read FINDING DARWIN'S GOD, BY KENNETH MILLER, like i originally said. kenneth miller is a christian biology professor at brown university, who disdains "ID" and creationists as much as i do.

[elaear 0]

Unfortunately, we can play that game all day and at the end, I'm still an accountant without the scientific knowledge to debate you nor the time to acquire it.  I have had significant discussions with friends who are doctors, as well as an atheist scientist who literally converted when he came to the realization that my original post centers around:  we CANNOT be an accident and that there must be a greater power who had a hand in creating all of this.

how do you know you aren't all wrong then? in fact nobody knows if we are an "accident" or not and there is no firm evidence either way. however there is logical evidence that if there is a higher power he's not terribly interested in us individually.

it depends on what you mean by "accident". if you mean that god tripped over his chemistry set, then no, probably not. if you mean that we are the product of chance, then yes, modern science has shown that we absolutely are an "accident".

[76clubs 0]

Yeah, DN said in a previous post that he would send anyone a copy of that book. I asked him for one and have not recieved it yet. I guess I will have to go out and buy it if I want to read it. Sounds like a great book.

i got my copy....

[crowTrobot 2]

if you mean that we are the product of chance, then yes, modern science has shown that we absolutely are an "accident".

it takes as much faith to believe that as it takes to believe in god. there is certainly a pattern of evidence that seems to indicate we are probably an accident, but still too many gaps for anyone to feel confident about it.

[elaear 0]

if you mean that we are the product of chance, then yes, modern science has shown that we absolutely are an "accident".

it takes as much faith to believe that as it takes to believe in god. there is certainly a pattern of evidence that seems to indicate we are probably an accident, but still too many gaps for anyone to feel confident about it.

it is not a matter of faith. if you believe in the scientific method, then you must believe in evolution -- there is THAT much evidence for it. these creationists who say that there is insufficient evidence are either scientifically ignorant, dense, or retarded to the point they are incapable of comprehending a scientific article in TIME magazine, let alone a biology textbook.there have been so many instances where creationists have attacked evolution because of a missing link in the evolutionary chain, but science then prevails when that missing link is discovered within months.there is literally enough evidence that supports evolution to say that it is a SCIENTIFIC FACT, equivalent to how gravity and relativity is a fact. the "debate" on evolution is simply a matter of christian fundamentalists putting their hands over their ears, yelling "LALALA GOD IS REAL GOD IS REAL GOD IS REAL GOD IS REAL", when it is just plain wrong to believe that if evolution is fact, then god must be imaginary.i'm not going to post any more about this. just read "finding darwin's god", since kenneth miller argues for evolution AND religion much more eloquently and more effectively then i'll ever be able to.

[dirtysal 0]

i've always wondered...do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell? if so, what about people who have never been exposed to Christianity?

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuseRomans 1:20Jesus warned us, "Take heed that no man deceive you." And we do, indeed, live in the Age of Deceit. Our entire society is totally driven by many myths, none more basic or insidious than the convictions of Evolution, the religion of our age. (Dismissing for this discussion the observations of microevolution, the variations within species, but rather using the term in its connotative sense, referring, in fact, to biogenesis: the notion that we are all the result of a series of cosmic accidents.)The ancient cultures worshiped gods of wood and stone. It is difficult to comprehend the insanity of paganism: who can tally the blood that has been spilled on the altars of the gods who are not and the demons who are! We, however, in our contemporary paganism, have invented the most insulting "god" of all. Instead of ascribing the awesome magnificence of the Creation to any of the false gods of the past, we have chosen to ascribe it all to randomness, or chance. That has to be the most insulting ascription of all: we have decided that no Designer was necessary - it all "just happened." "First there was nothing. Then it exploded!"http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/256/

[crowTrobot 2]

it is not a matter of faith. if you believe in the scientific method, then you must believe in evolution -- there is THAT much evidence for it. these creationists who say that there is insufficient evidence are either scientifically ignorant, dense, or retarded to the point they are incapable of comprehending a scientific article in TIME magazine, let alone a biology textbook.there have been so many instances where creationists have attacked evolution because of a missing link in the evolutionary chain, but science then prevails when that missing link is discovered within months.there is literally enough evidence that supports evolution to say that it is a SCIENTIFIC FACT, equivalent to how gravity and relativity is a fact. the "debate" on evolution is simply a matter of christian fundamentalists putting their hands over their ears, yelling "LALALA GOD IS REAL GOD IS REAL GOD IS REAL GOD IS REAL", when it is just plain wrong to believe that if evolution is fact, then god must be imaginary.

you're talking about evolution vs. biblical literalist creationism. that's not really an issue, because no intelligent person will believe in the latter. what may be an issue is whether evolution might have been "guided" in some way or not. we currently have no proven expanation for why speciation seems to work in spurts or for how complex organs evolved, and we aren't really even close to understanding a mechanism for life emerging spontaneously. it is certainly a matter of faith to think that we know enough to eliminate any chance of "god" completely, although it is of course nonsense to use our ignorance about such things to justify belief in the christian god.and btw we don't have a clear understanding of what gravity is at all, and relativity is not universally accepted as scientific fact - many scientists consider it likely to be just a scale-dependant approximation of a potentially radically different underlying truth, since it appears to be incompatable with quantum mechanics.

[crowTrobot 2]

i've always wondered...do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell? if so, what about people who have never been exposed to Christianity?

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuseRomans 1:20Jesus warned us, "Take heed that no man deceive you." And we do, indeed, live in the Age of Deceit. Our entire society is totally driven by many myths, none more basic or insidious than the convictions of Evolution, the religion of our age. (Dismissing for this discussion the observations of microevolution, the variations within species, but rather using the term in its connotative sense, referring, in fact, to biogenesis: the notion that we are all the result of a series of cosmic accidents.)The ancient cultures worshiped gods of wood and stone. It is difficult to comprehend the insanity of paganism: who can tally the blood that has been spilled on the altars of the gods who are not and the demons who are! We, however, in our contemporary paganism, have invented the most insulting "god" of all. Instead of ascribing the awesome magnificence of the Creation to any of the false gods of the past, we have chosen to ascribe it all to randomness, or chance. That has to be the most insulting ascription of all: we have decided that no Designer was necessary - it all "just happened." "First there was nothing. Then it exploded!"

i think you replied to the wrong post, dude : )anyway, it's not just micro evolution, it's an entire fossil record spanning billions of years which contradicts romans 1:20 - the fossil record is a pretty damn good excuse for questioning the christian god.

[dirtysal 0]

I personally don't have the guts to gamble my eternity that the Bible might be wrong.

[crowTrobot 2]

I personally don't have the guts to gamble my eternity that the Bible might be wrong.

so are you joining every other religeon for the same reason then? gotta cover all your bases you know.

[dirtysal 0]

I personally don't have the guts to gamble my eternity that the Bible might be wrong.

so are you joining every other religeon for the same reason then? gotta cover all your bases you know.

I don't like how these conversations tend to turn out,it always seems that the parties dont listen to each other then consider seriously what the other is saying.but this is what I believe and so do many many other intelligent people.... I've done lots of reading in this area and I choose to believe in the God of The Bible.Being a Christian,doesn't mean you have to check your brain at the door.a question for youHow can the prophecies be explained away? Daniel's 70 weeks and Ezekiel's 430 days for example.Are you familar with them?http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/552/http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/