s&g hand strat question (speedz needs you!)

[alf13 0]

i've found that mentality to be completely wrong for tourneys lately...even with 4bb or less, even 5 handed, you have SOME SORT of selection, and even if you don't, then wait 2 hands and go allin UTG with any two cards, just to be first in.  that's what's most important.if the limper is a bigger stack, push.  if the limper is short like you, don't.   it's that simple.a big stack can afford to limp JT or QJ or K9 or whatever, so you have SOME CHANCE of being ahead, and at least minor fold equity.here, you have no fold equity, and 95% of the time, you're at least marginally behind.

The Key word here is MARGINALLY behind...In this spot I think you take being a small dog to double up.The Key is that next hand...you will be desperate....and if you ait to be first...you are forcing a confrontation....in this case...you give yourself a chance to win a couple of BB which gains you one orbit.

[Pupsta 0]

i've found that mentality to be completely wrong for tourneys lately...even with 4bb or less, even 5 handed, you have SOME SORT of selection, and even if you don't, then wait 2 hands and go allin UTG with any two cards, just to be first in. that's what's most important.if the limper is a bigger stack, push. if the limper is short like you, don't. it's that simple.a big stack can afford to limp JT or QJ or K9 or whatever, so you have SOME CHANCE of being ahead, and at least minor fold equity.here, you have no fold equity, and 95% of the time, you're at least marginally behind.

The Key word here is MARGINALLY behind...In this spot I think you take being a small dog to double up.The Key is that next hand...you will be desperate....and if you ait to be first...you are forcing a confrontation....in this case...you give yourself a chance to win a couple of BB which gains you one orbit.

you're probably marginally behind 60% of the time, dominated 35% of the time, and dominating 5% of the time....you want to take a 60% chance to double up 40% of the time?you still have SOME selection, theoretically you could let blinds pass and then become a desparate shortstack, but you can at least have a CHANCE to get your money in as at least a marginal favorite

[alf13 0]

you're probably marginally behind 60% of the time, dominated 35% of the time, and dominating 5% of the time....you want to take a 60% chance to double up 40% of the time?you still have SOME selection, theoretically you could let blinds pass and then become a desparate shortstack, but you can at least have a CHANCE to get your money in as at least a marginal favorite

I understand your thinking here......BUT...you must remember that your numbers might be drastically different versus these $20 sng players...It is I BELIEVE much more likely that Mr. Limper limped with a marginal hand like T9 soooooooooooooted or a JT.....or for that matter...worst....But I do get your call for patience here...

[speedz99 145]

you're probably marginally behind 60% of the time, dominated 35% of the time, and dominating 5% of the time....you want to take a 60% chance to double up 40% of the time?you still have SOME selection, theoretically you could let blinds pass and then become a desparate shortstack, but you can at least have a CHANCE to get your money in as at least a marginal favorite

I understand your thinking here......BUT...you must remember that your numbers might be drastically different versus these $20 sng players...It is I BELIEVE much more likely that Mr. Limper limped with a marginal hand like T9 soooooooooooooted or a JT.....or for that matter...worst....But I do get your call for patience here...

I agree with the bolded portion about the villain's hand range.And Pupsta, we do have fold equity here. From experience it's getting folded around probably 20% of the time to my all-in.

[swass 0]

i've found that mentality to be completely wrong for tourneys lately...even with 4bb or less, even 5 handed, you have SOME SORT of selection, and even if you don't, then wait 2 hands and go allin UTG with any two cards, just to be first in. that's what's most important.if the limper is a bigger stack, push. if the limper is short like you, don't. it's that simple.a big stack can afford to limp JT or QJ or K9 or whatever, so you have SOME CHANCE of being ahead, and at least minor fold equity.here, you have no fold equity, and 95% of the time, you're at least marginally behind.

The Key word here is MARGINALLY behind...In this spot I think you take being a small dog to double up.The Key is that next hand...you will be desperate....and if you ait to be first...you are forcing a confrontation....in this case...you give yourself a chance to win a couple of BB which gains you one orbit.

you're probably marginally behind 60% of the time, dominated 35% of the time, and dominating 5% of the time....you want to take a 60% chance to double up 40% of the time?you still have SOME selection, theoretically you could let blinds pass and then become a desparate shortstack, but you can at least have a CHANCE to get your money in as at least a marginal favorite

If you let the blinds increase and then pass for one more orbit you are worse off than desperate. You are already nearing desperate shortstack status, and IMO will have to go allin when the BB hits you so that you at least have some money if/when you double up. KJ is too good too pass up with 3 more hands still to see. The chances are too good that the UTG limper has crap lower then yours - you may even have him dominated with his JT. I do see where your patience is coming from, and on the bubble - maybe I make this fold, but with 5 people still, you need to make a move.

[copernicus 0]

Ok, so I have a poker strat question...I'm posting it here because:1.  it's not really "general" strat2.  it's definately not limit (but I would have liked to post it there)3.  the "NL" and "tourney" sections don't get much traffic and I don't know who to trust thereThat said...I'm down to the last 5 in a $20 S&G on Party.  It is a typical table with no strong reads, and as usual it is getting tighter going down to the wire.  This is from memory, so the chip counts might be a little off.  Here we go:SB:  $2,200BB:  $1,750MP: $2,300CO: $715Button (me): $845  Blinds: ($50, $100) and going up next handI am dealt [Kc Jc]MP folds, CO calls, Hero raises (all-in), SB folds, BB folds, CO calls.So I was thinking that:1.  this is a decent hand to take a stand with if SB or BB call (CO will most likely fold to an all-in and call)2.  if SB and BB fold it's probably 50/50 that CO calls, and if he does I'm ahead more often than not3.  it's nice if everyone folds and I pick up some cash while leaving CO even more desperateNow obviously I'm asking because I lost the pot in one way or another.  Any comments on the play?

CO is screaming monster here, and even if he is really tricky trying a pre-flop post-oak bluff, youve still got big stacks behind you. I put CO on AA, KK, QQ, AKs at least 75% of the time.Its an ugly situation, but Ive got to fold here and wait for first in vigorish.

[Pupsta 0]

Ok, so I have a poker strat question...I'm posting it here because:1.  it's not really "general" strat2.  it's definately not limit (but I would have liked to post it there)3.  the "NL" and "tourney" sections don't get much traffic and I don't know who to trust thereThat said...I'm down to the last 5 in a $20 S&G on Party.  It is a typical table with no strong reads, and as usual it is getting tighter going down to the wire.  This is from memory, so the chip counts might be a little off.  Here we go:SB:  $2,200BB:  $1,750MP: $2,300CO: $715Button (me): $845  Blinds: ($50, $100) and going up next handI am dealt [Kc Jc]MP folds, CO calls, Hero raises (all-in), SB folds, BB folds, CO calls.So I was thinking that:1.  this is a decent hand to take a stand with if SB or BB call (CO will most likely fold to an all-in and call)2.  if SB and BB fold it's probably 50/50 that CO calls, and if he does I'm ahead more often than not3.  it's nice if everyone folds and I pick up some cash while leaving CO even more desperateNow obviously I'm asking because I lost the pot in one way or another.  Any comments on the play?

CO is screaming monster here, and even if he is really tricky trying a pre-flop post-oak bluff, youve still got big stacks behind you. I put CO on AA, KK, QQ, AKs at least 75% of the time.Its an ugly situation, but Ive got to fold here and wait for first in vigorish.

didn't know who yo uwere when i found out you were on the YSAPKY team, but now that i see one post from ya, i'm glad to be your teammate

[twinboyz 0]

The blinds will be 75-150 on the next hand. I don't see how you don't push in. You have to take a stand at some point. His call pre-flop does look suspicious given his stack size, but if you run into AA or KK, thats poker.