why do idiots bet the minimum with the nuts?

[iggymcfly 0]

I must have seen this at least four times in the last week, playing 3/6 NL, usually when they catch a card on the turn that no one would possibly give them credit for a big hand on. And then if you raise them, they just minimum raise you right back. I guess they just can't bear the thought of someone folding.Back when I used to play $10 sit & gos, I used to think of this as a red flag, but as I progressed, I completely disregarded it as a tell, thinking that "good players" wouldn't use it. Well, now at the 3/6 NL level, I've found a reappearance. I guess I'm going to have to start watching out for it again, as even though I see no purpose to actually using the play, it seems to be rather prevalent.

[pokerplayer24 0]

They're betting small in hopes that you raise. Its a decent play vs aggro players sometimes. When they min raise back it usually just means that they suck and they figure "my opponent has to call my raise since he has so much invested". Just people wanting to get paid off with monsters and a flawed poker mentality.

[Mr. Blonde 0]

Maybe they want to stick you to the hand so that you'll call another bet on later rounds. Going all in with the nuts every time isn't the best play sometimes.

[lboarts 0]

Your entire goal when holding the nuts should be to extract as much chips as you think you can from your opponent(s). How much you bet/raise at this point should be dependent on a few things:1. The texture of the board - Are there other strong possibilities out there?2. Your opponents' actions prior to you catching the nuts - who raised pf, who bet the flop, any raisers on the flop? i.e. putting your opponent on a hand.3. Opponents' image - LAG, TAG, calling station? etc.By looking at all this information together, you can then decide how much to try to extract. I, for one, almost always price my opponents into calling by giving them the best pot odds I think they need to call. Mini-raises are a great way to extract more chips from most players. Smarter players will sometimes lay their hand down to this bet, but most of the time you'll get paid off.I don't quite understand what OP is complaining about. It seems like you're bitching about them NOT pricing you out of the pot. I don't get it.

[Meeler09 0]

Every once in a while I'll min raise on a complete bluff to show the image of a bad player with the nuts.. You'd be surprised how many times it works.

[HurricaneKyle 0]

They think its sneaky, when in fact it pretty much tells you what they got. :wink:

[Advanex13 0]

Shouldn't you be thanking them for saving you money?

[bigcoled 1]

Many times aggressive players will re raise you all in there, it's the idea that it's easier to get a player to raise all in than call all in...also, you don't just go all in when you have the nuts, because only an idiot would call it, it's easier to get a good player to call a minimum raise then to get a bad player to call all in, because even a terrible player knows he doesn't want to risk all his chips...UNLESS...he thinks he has room to still get you off this hand, or you show anything that could be seen as a sign of weakness to make him think he's ahead in the hand...a minimum raise is like "letting out the line" a bit, just enough for them to hang themself on...there's no room for misinterpretation on an all in bet, you need to exract the most amount of chips possible, and maximize the chance that your opponent will make a mistake at some point in the hand...

[RayPowers 0]

Not to mention the most infamous of words: Misclick.I misclicked with the nut straight last night. I checked with the nut straight into a for sure better. He bet and I .... called. Where's that direct jack in when I need it. Effing laptop touchpads...Ray

[na3r0k 0]

sometimes you need to switch it up, it might be the correct play if the last time he was holding them he was betting more aggresively.

[lboarts 0]

Every once in a while I'll min raise on a complete bluff to show the image of a bad player with the nuts.. You'd be surprised how many times it works.

While your action is fine, you're line of thinking is completely skewed. Maybe you're surprised it works so much because you don't realize that you're actually a bad player representing a good player holding the nuts.For those of you agreeing with OP (that miniraising with the nuts is fishy) , please feel free to elaborate on your positions, as I'm very curious about why you think this is a bad play.

[lboarts 0]

sometimes you need to switch it up, it might be the correct play if the last time he was holding them he was betting more aggresively.

Agreed, switching up is very important in poker. It goes back to the old debate about which style is best to play. IMO, no one style is better than the rest, they all have their time and place, and knowing how to play them all and when to play them will only make you a better poker player.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

I laugh at when people minimum raise, especially in the $5 dollar SNGs on pokerroom. I saw one guy minimum raise preflop and then another minimum raise his minimum raise and then the original raiser re-minimum raised. I said "aces and kings?" and that's what they both had. So horribly obvious.

[Meeler09 0]

Every once in a while I'll min raise on a complete bluff to show the image of a bad player with the nuts.. You'd be surprised how many times it works.

While your action is fine, you're line of thinking is completely skewed. Maybe you're surprised it works so much because you don't realize that you're actually a bad player representing a good player holding the nuts.For those of you agreeing with OP (that miniraising with the nuts is fishy) , please feel free to elaborate on your positions, as I'm very curious about why you think this is a bad play.

Now that I think about it... thats completely right... I still don't like the min raise though for value.. If he's going to call that he'll call a 4x raise in most cases.

[kers2 0]

Minraising preflop is not the smartest thing to so, but minraising after the flop with the nuts is just another form of a value bet if you play it right.For example, lets say the pot is $300 and its down to you and one other player at the river. This player bets 200 into the 300 pot. If you have the nuts would you rather minraise here and put him into an almost certain crying call (or possible reraise), or raise 3-4x his bet?The point is to extract as much chips as possible from your opponent. You are trying to bet the amount you think he will call. If you know he will call a 3-4x raise, then do it, but its much more likely he will call a minraise and feel "pot commited".

[Stylin_Fish 0]

I had a guy minimum raise me when a 2 came on the river and he had a2 against my j5 on a board of QQX-5-2. I called and laughed at him and took his money about 10 minutes later.

[lboarts 0]

I had a guy minimum raise me when a 2 came on the river and he had a2 against my j5 on a board of QQX-5-2.  I called and laughed at him and took his money about 10 minutes later.

The point I'm seeing here is that you called that raise with a lowly pair of 5s, which means the miniraise was effective. The fact that your hand was best only means your opponent miniraised at the wrong time, but that doesn't negate the fact that you called a miniraise with relative garbage, compared to the board. I'm betting when you called you thought you were behind, but you called anyway.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

I had a guy minimum raise me when a 2 came on the river and he had a2 against my j5 on a board of QQX-5-2.  I called and laughed at him and took his money about 10 minutes later.

The point I'm seeing here is that you called that raise with a lowly pair of 5s, which means the miniraise was effective. The fact that your hand was best only means your opponent miniraised at the wrong time, but that doesn't negate the fact that you called a miniraise with relative garbage, compared to the board. I'm betting when you called you thought you were behind, but you called anyway.

I disagree.

[turd ferguson 1]

Sometimes I think the internet donkeys minimum raise because they don't even think to do otherwise. They don't take the time to look at how much is in the pot, or consider what pot odds they should be giving you with their bet. They just hit the raise button. I've seen it so often in small tournaments, and it happens so quickly that you know they don't even think about it. Their first reaction is just to hit the raise button. It is definitely +EV for me. It's quite possibly the worst play in no limit poker.

[lboarts 0]

I had a guy minimum raise me when a 2 came on the river and he had a2 against my j5 on a board of QQX-5-2.  I called and laughed at him and took his money about 10 minutes later.

The point I'm seeing here is that you called that raise with a lowly pair of 5s, which means the miniraise was effective. The fact that your hand was best only means your opponent miniraised at the wrong time, but that doesn't negate the fact that you called a miniraise with relative garbage, compared to the board. I'm betting when you called you thought you were behind, but you called anyway.

I disagree.

But you do agree with my last statement, correct?

[kers2 0]

Sometimes I think the internet donkeys minimum raise because they don't even think to do otherwise. They don't take the time to look at how much is in the pot, or consider what pot odds they should be giving you with their bet. They just hit the raise button. I've seen it so often in small tournaments, and it happens so quickly that you know they don't even think about it. Their first reaction is just to hit the raise button. It is definitely +EV for me. It's quite possibly the worst play in no limit poker.

Definitely see that all the time by bad players, and I just laugh, but there is still a point that the minraise can be used effectively by a good player after the flop.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

I had a guy minimum raise me when a 2 came on the river and he had a2 against my j5 on a board of QQX-5-2.  I called and laughed at him and took his money about 10 minutes later.

The point I'm seeing here is that you called that raise with a lowly pair of 5s, which means the miniraise was effective. The fact that your hand was best only means your opponent miniraised at the wrong time, but that doesn't negate the fact that you called a miniraise with relative garbage, compared to the board. I'm betting when you called you thought you were behind, but you called anyway.

I disagree.

But you do agree with my last statement, correct?

I didn't see your last statement. Absolutely not, I was pretty sure I had him beat. The way the hand was played, I knew he had a 2, I just wasn't willing to risk more chips(to raise) in case he did come over the top. May sound dumb but oh well

[lboarts 0]

Sometimes I think the internet donkeys minimum raise because they don't even think to do otherwise. They don't take the time to look at how much is in the pot, or consider what pot odds they should be giving you with their bet. They just hit the raise button. I've seen it so often in small tournaments, and it happens so quickly that you know they don't even think about it. Their first reaction is just to hit the raise button. It is definitely +EV for me. It's quite possibly the worst play in no limit poker.

It can be, but it can also be the best play. Poker is way too situational to make such a blanket statement.

[lboarts 0]

I had a guy minimum raise me when a 2 came on the river and he had a2 against my j5 on a board of QQX-5-2.  I called and laughed at him and took his money about 10 minutes later.

The point I'm seeing here is that you called that raise with a lowly pair of 5s, which means the miniraise was effective. The fact that your hand was best only means your opponent miniraised at the wrong time, but that doesn't negate the fact that you called a miniraise with relative garbage, compared to the board. I'm betting when you called you thought you were behind, but you called anyway.

I disagree.

But you do agree with my last statement, correct?

I didn't see your last statement. Absolutely not, I was pretty sure I had him beat. The way the hand was played, I knew he had a 2, I just wasn't willing to risk more chips(to raise) in case he did come over the top. May sound dumb but oh well

It doesn't sound dumb at all, it sounds like you had a very good read on your opponent. Because I didn't see how the hand played out, or know what his image was, I can't dispute what you're saying. Well played.

[turd ferguson 1]

Sometimes I think the internet donkeys minimum raise because they don't even think to do otherwise. They don't take the time to look at how much is in the pot, or consider what pot odds they should be giving you with their bet. They just hit the raise button. I've seen it so often in small tournaments, and it happens so quickly that you know they don't even think about it. Their first reaction is just to hit the raise button. It is definitely +EV for me. It's quite possibly the worst play in no limit poker.

It can be, but it can also be the best play. Poker is way too situational to make such a blanket statement.

I live my life one blanket statement at a time.