what do you think of this lay down

[Chez52 0]

Last night I was playing in a live game.....not that big $20 dollar buy in .25/.50 blinds. I have never played with these guys before so i folded hands i would normally play (K 6 suited on the button, Q 7 in the SB) should have played them would have flopped two pair twice.....but I was just getting to try to get a feel for the table since i never played with these poeple before.....I didnt play a hand for about 15 miuntes and then i look at KdKc in Mid Position.....I decided I wouldnt raise because i was getting some heat about not playing a hand and if I would have raised that may have tipped them off. So limped in as did most of the people at the table (7 person game BTW)The flop comes 9d2d6h everyone checkes for me i bet $2 dollars just to see where Im at.......I get two callers.......the turn is a 3d.....this made a flush possibility it was checked to me and seeing i had the Kd I checked hoping to get a flush.......the river as 6c pairing the board......the man to act first bets $6....and the other guy folds.....I had about $17 in front of me and a few hands before this kid did the same thing and turned over a flush....and i sensed that something was up.... I just had a bad feeling about it.....Maybe he had a flush.....Maybe the 6 gave him trips....or he could have a straight since there was no raising pre-flop....AT this point i think that i was beat I didnt have that much money in the pot so i decided to lay it down......Before I post his cards I want to see what you guys would have done

[Mister Hand 0]

Besides raise preflop?It's unlikely he's bluffing with two other people in the pot. I wouldn't fold every time, but I would more often than not.

[KDawgCometh 2]

there's a lesson to be learned from this. Winning a small pot with a big pair is much better than losing a decent sized one. So what if they had been raggin on you for playing tight, that's their problem not yours. This is a great case of FPS. Not playing K6 soooted and Q7 are normaaly good decisions anyway

[Chez52 0]

there's a lesson to be learned from this. Winning a small pot with a big pair is much better than losing a decent sized one. So what if they had been raggin on you for playing tight, that's their problem not yours. This is a great case of FPS. Not playing K6 soooted and Q7 are normaaly good decisions anyway

Whats is FPS???

[benhoug 0]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I can't think of a situation where I would not raise w/ KK. I mean sure, you want to be deceptive, but just limping into a pot w/ 6 other players and there's no way your Kings will hold up. It's better to win .75 than lose a few bucks. If you had raised I sure you would have gotten at least 1 or 2 callers and you could've taken the pot down on the flop...

[KDawgCometh 2]

Whats is FPS???

Fancy Play Syndrome. You should only attempt to be decptive at much higher limits where it is more of a mind game then where you were at

[TheIceman05 0]

Yeah, hold crap, you played this hand terribly.Wow. Holy crap.Ice

[halvey7 0]

Ya I think you misplayed that hand pretty bad, raising preflop then betting something (depending on pot size) on the turn is what I would of probably done

[troutsmart 0]

If you didn't feel good about it, then laying it down was probably the right move. However, as I'm sure you realize, not raising with KK was definitely a mistake. Home games are great fun. Last night I had the chance to play in a little game much like the one you describe. I was familiar with half of the players as we've played together quite a bit. However, there were a couple of new faces. This is why I love poker, all the different personalities you run into on a table. Seated across from me is the young kid, maybe 18. He works with half the guys at the table, and makes more money than most college graduates, yet he smells of pot. He laughs constantly, cackles would be a better description. Let's be honest, he's terrible at cards, folding only twice I remember (which was on a trip to the bathroom, from which he returned smelling even more of the grass). You couldn't help not enjoy this kid though, as he got such a rush being involved in hands. It didn't matter if he held AA or K3, they all looked liked monster to him. He built up a huge stack for our little game, after hitting a couple gutshots, and flopping two pair with 96 against KK. He then proceeded to hemorage those chips in a couple hands, laughing all the way. He bought in 5 or 6 times on the night, then finally decided he'd play Xbox, where he was actually quite good, and laughed constantly.In contrast, the player to his left was a gamer. He's a dead ringer for Jason Bateman, the actor. He folded the far majority of his hands, and always entered raising. My thoughts that he was playing too tight were soon dashed when he raised the pot containing 4 limpers and they all called. After the river, with two other players all-in, he quietly turned over T 7 with a board of A T 7 7 K Wow! Just like that he wiped out two of our better players in the game, one holding Q J and the other A K . My friend holding A K had nobody to blame, but himself, having limped in EP with such a hand, then simply calling after having a raiser and letting the third player in. T 7 hmm... I didn't ask him, but was I playing with a fullcontactpoker.com regular. Jason Bateman lookalike, are you out there? He proceeded to mix up his game the rest of the night, making very impressive calls and laydowns. I made the mistake of locking horns with him and lost over half my stack when I raised in LP with 9 8 and the flop came T 6 4 ...he checked, I bet a near pot sized bet,which he called promptly...so much for taking it down there. I put him on overcards. The turn brings a K . He checks, and I debate taking a free card or betting. I decide that I'll have to make a hand to win the pot if I don't bet at this point, so I bet out about 70% of the pot. He deliberates for some time and finally calls. I'm surprised at his call, and honestly can't put him on anything, but am thinking about QJ, JT, KJ, AJ, AQ, or a midpair. When the river is the most harmless card in the deck, the 2 , he checks. Now what? I started this hand with a large stack and now had almost a third of it in the pot, which was okay, but I wasn't about to just give up and turn over a 9 high only to lose to a QJ. How much to bet? We have about the same size stacks. I make a bold move and decide to bet nearly 70% of the pot again. I want him only calling with a premium hand and believe this bet accomplishes that. The loser of this hand, will have been majorly crippled. He sits and thinks about it, and starts saying he thinks he has me beat, but it is a big bet to call without a solid hand. He finally says," I think you have QJ or some kind of draw, so I call." My heart sinks, as he flips over A J . Wow! That was a heck of a call in my book, to which I could only shake my head in amazement. Read me and officially humbled me.Granted, that could have been a great call or absolutely a dumb call only a fish would make, but I lean toward the former. Maybe it's my ego, trying to save what little respect I have for myself, not wanting to be schooled by a fish. I'm wallowing in self pity. No, this guy later lays down AK to KK without a thought.Home games. Same small apartment, one player is stoned, and another is doing the stoning. After that hand, I was wishing I was stoned, or just cackling like the kid on the Xbox.

[Chez52 0]

First off I appreciate all the input you guys gave me even though you critizized me......trust me I would have too. 9 out of 10 times I would raise with KK.....I was trying to be a little fancy....but I think that by not raising I saved my entire stack......Usually with KK I would make it $2.50 to go. This kid would have called for sure a $2.00 bet with his hand.......Pocket 9's So basically he had me raped when the flop came 9 high. I would have have bet big to chase out any draws and he would hae raised with a set. I didnt know him well enough yet to put him on a set so I prob would have lost my stack that hand Considering the end result Im glad i played it a little conservativly. So I guess this was one of the rare times to slow play kings and lay them down.....I lost about $4.50 in that hand where I could have lost $2Thanks for the critique guys.....next time i play with these kids ill have a better understanding of how they play and i wont make the same mistake twice

[TheIceman05 0]

First off I appreciate all the input you guys gave me even though you critizized me......trust me I would have too.  9 out of 10 times I would raise with KK.....I was trying to be a little fancy....but I think that by not raising I saved my entire stack......Usually with KK I would make it $2.50 to go. This kid would have called for sure a $2.00 bet with his hand.......Pocket 9's  So basically he had me raped when the flop came 9 high. I would have have bet big to chase out any draws and he would hae raised with a set. I didnt know him well enough yet to put him on a set so I prob would have lost my stack that hand  Considering the end result Im glad i played it a little conservativly. So I guess this was one of the rare times to slow play kings and lay them down.....I lost about $4.50 in that hand where I could have lost $2Thanks for the critique guys.....next time i play with these kids ill have a better understanding of how they play and i wont make the same mistake twice

In all seriousness-Just because your opponenet would have flopped a set, that doesn't make the play you made "the right one." Reading strength and making the lay down was appropriate. Good play. But you can't start playing the "results game" here. Just because you might have lost an even bigger pot heads up DOES NOT make your limp on the flop any less horrible. You got lucky, but it was still a poor play. Anyway, that being said, good laydown. Way to read strength and dump a strong hand.Iceman

[Chez52 0]

If you didn't feel good about it, then laying it down was probably the right move.  However, as I'm sure you realize, not raising with KK was definitely a mistake.  Home games are great fun.  Last night I had the chance to play in a little game much like the one you describe.  I was familiar with half of the players as we've played together quite a bit.  However, there were a couple of new faces.  This is why I love poker, all the different personalities you run into on a table.  Seated across from me is the young kid, maybe 18.  He works with half the guys at the table, and makes more money than most college graduates, yet he smells of pot.  He laughs constantly, cackles would be a better description.   Let's be honest, he's terrible at cards, folding only twice I remember (which was on a trip to the bathroom, from which he returned smelling even more of the grass).   You couldn't help not enjoy this kid though, as he got such a rush being involved in hands.  It didn't matter if he held AA or K3, they all looked liked monster to him.  He built up a huge stack for our little game, after hitting a couple gutshots, and flopping two pair with 96 against KK.  He then proceeded to hemorage those chips in a couple hands, laughing all the way.  He bought in 5 or 6 times on the night, then finally decided he'd play Xbox, where he was actually quite good, and laughed constantly.In contrast, the player to his left was a gamer.  He's a dead ringer for Jason Bateman, the actor.  He folded the far majority of his hands, and always entered raising.  My thoughts that he was playing too tight were soon dashed when he raised the pot containing 4 limpers and they all called.  After the river, with two other players all-in, he quietly turned over T 7  with a board of A T    7 7 K  Wow!  Just like that he wiped out two of our better players in the game, one holding Q J  and the other A K .    My friend holding A K had nobody to blame, but himself, having limped in EP with such a hand, then simply calling after having a raiser and letting the third player in.  T 7  hmm... I didn't ask him, but was I playing with a fullcontactpoker.com regular.  Jason Bateman lookalike, are you out there?  He proceeded to mix up his game the rest of the night, making very impressive calls and laydowns.  I made the mistake of locking horns with him and lost over half my stack when I raised in LP with 9 8  and the flop came T 6 4  ...he checked, I bet a near pot sized bet,which he called promptly...so much for taking it down there.  I put him on overcards.  The turn brings a K .  He checks, and I debate taking a free card or betting.  I decide that I'll have to make a hand to win the pot if I don't bet at this point, so I bet out about 70% of the pot.  He deliberates for some time and finally calls.  I'm surprised at his call, and honestly can't put him on anything, but am thinking about QJ, JT, KJ, AJ, AQ, or a midpair.  When the river is the most harmless card in the deck, the 2 , he checks.  Now what?  I started this hand with a large stack and now had almost a third of it in the pot, which was okay, but I wasn't about to just give up and turn over a 9 high only to lose to a QJ.  How much to bet?  We have about the same size stacks.  I make a bold move and decide to bet nearly 70% of the pot again.  I want him only calling with a premium hand and believe this bet accomplishes that.  The loser of this hand, will have been majorly crippled.  He sits and thinks about it, and starts saying he thinks he has me beat, but it is a big bet to call without a solid hand.  He finally says," I think you have QJ or some kind of draw, so I call."  My heart sinks, as he flips over A J .  Wow!  That was a heck of a call in my book, to which I could only shake my head in amazement.   Read me and officially humbled me.Granted, that could have been a great call or absolutely a dumb call only a fish would make, but I lean toward the former.  Maybe it's my ego, trying to save what little respect I have for myself, not wanting to be schooled by a fish.  I'm wallowing in self pity.   No, this guy later lays down AK to KK without a thought.Home games.  Same small apartment, one player is stoned, and another is doing the stoning.  After that hand, I was wishing I was stoned, or just cackling like the kid on the Xbox.

That sucks man......sounds like a hell of a game though. When someone that is playing like a madman like that stoned kid....you really cant do anything expect hope that his rush comes to an end.....As far as that call....I mean you just gotta give him credit for a hell of a call....He showed in those two hands that you talked about that hes not amatuer or idiot.....hes a good concept for the game and I love playing games like that.....instead of an All-In fest or Amatuer Hour.....You fired 4 shells into the pot and I give you credit for that......maybe if you would have pushed all in he would have given it up...... Surprised how many times when I bluff I go all in and win and when i bet about $99 of my $100 stack I get called.......Two sweetest words in poker

[Guest XXEddie]

I like the fold because the bet was about 1/3 of your stack, if your gonna call you might as well go all-in. and that is a scary board for KK

[jakoye 0]

I think you should've folded pre-flop. Seriously.If you're gonna let other people raggin' on you affect you so much and not raise pocket Kings and let 6 people come along with you to the flop... just fold 'em.

[jakoye 0]

He proceeded to mix up his game the rest of the night, making very impressive calls and laydowns.  I made the mistake of locking horns with him and lost over half my stack when I raised in LP with 9 8  and the flop came T 6 4  ...he checked, I bet a near pot sized bet,which he called promptly...so much for taking it down there.  I put him on overcards.  The turn brings a K .  He checks, and I debate taking a free card or betting.  I decide that I'll have to make a hand to win the pot if I don't bet at this point, so I bet out about 70% of the pot.  He deliberates for some time and finally calls.  I'm surprised at his call, and honestly can't put him on anything, but am thinking about QJ, JT, KJ, AJ, AQ, or a midpair.  When the river is the most harmless card in the deck, the 2 , he checks.  Now what?  I started this hand with a large stack and now had almost a third of it in the pot, which was okay, but I wasn't about to just give up and turn over a 9 high only to lose to a QJ.  How much to bet?  We have about the same size stacks.  I make a bold move and decide to bet nearly 70% of the pot again.  I want him only calling with a premium hand and believe this bet accomplishes that.  The loser of this hand, will have been majorly crippled.  He sits and thinks about it, and starts saying he thinks he has me beat, but it is a big bet to call without a solid hand.  He finally says," I think you have QJ or some kind of draw, so I call."  My heart sinks, as he flips over A J .  Wow!  That was a heck of a call in my book, to which I could only shake my head in amazement.   Read me and officially humbled me.

After he called your pot-sized bet on the flop, I don't see how you can throw more money into this pot. MAYBE if you have a shot at winning the pot with overcards alone, but you didn't have big cards and were pretty sure that he did. So you end up betting half your stack on a stone cold bluff with only a gutshot straight to rescue you. Not good.If anything, the size of your bets might have encouraged him to call. Why would you be making such large bets with a made hand? If you had a straight, most likely you'd bet smaller in the hopes of encouraging a call or even a raise. Your large bets scream to me that you are bluffing. But then again, I do have the advantage of Monday morning quarterbacking.

[Guest XXEddie]

I think you should've folded pre-flop. Seriously.If you're gonna let other people raggin' on you affect you so much and not raise pocket Kings and let 6 people come along with you to the flop... just fold 'em.

why are you even playing....i mean if six people cap pre-flop, then maybed toss it, but not if six paeople limp.....you should stay away from cards for life if you would fold

[troutsmart 0]

jakoye responded:After he called your pot-sized bet on the flop, I don't see how you can throw more money into this pot. MAYBE if you have a shot at winning the pot with overcards alone, but you didn't have big cards and were pretty sure that he did. So you end up betting half your stack on a stone cold bluff with only a gutshot straight to rescue you. Not good. If anything, the size of your bets might have encouraged him to call. Why would you be making such large bets with a made hand? If you had a straight, most likely you'd bet smaller in the hopes of encouraging a call or even a raise. Your large bets scream to me that you are bluffing. But then again, I do have the advantage of Monday morning quarterbackingGood point about the larger bets and them screaming of a bluff. I like that analysis. I think his thinking was right in line with yours, which is good. The guy hadn't played with me enough to know that I always bet big, it is just my style. I did pick up a flush draw on the turn, counting my outs as 9 for the flush and 4 for the gutshot. I thought possibly and did in fact have 6 additional outs by pairing my 8 or 9. Funny thing is, all the players I play with regularly thought for sure I had AA or KK. Too bad I wasn't playing them. lol. My style is very tight-aggressive in these games, and though I bluff on occasion, I far more often show up with a very solid hand. Officially, the nuts on the hand would have been KK, which I would have played exactly the same, except the river bet would have been slightly smaller. I don't like suddenly throwing out a small bet in relation to the pot, just because I have the nuts. I always make anyone playing against me pay, whichpays off when I'm playing against the cackling kid who was higher than a kite. By the way, I would never bluff that kid. In hindsight, I think my biggest mistake has to do with what I mentioned earlier about the regulars putting me on a very strong hand. I think since I respected this guys play, I believed that a semi-bluff on the turn would work and felt strong about my chances on the river. I do this on occasion with the regulars, and it is a +EV play in those situations. They are each above average players who log many hours of successful online play, the very type of player I felt I was playing against. I don't plan on trying this on him again anytime soon, if he shows up in a game again. Down the road, once he is accustomed to my style, I might be able to pull this off. For now, I'll try to stay out of his way and focus on the rest of the table and more profitable areas. Lesson learned: don't always assume a player will play against you how you think he will play. Since I classified him as an above-average player, I attempted to represent a hand that I thought a good player would put me on. This could a very valuable lesson for Multi-table tournament situations where you encounter many new players, and have to adjust your style of play. Don't bluff off your chips, just because you think a player will read you how you think they should.Thanks for your positive criticism, and I appreciate your advice and thoughts about the overbetting.

[jaffa_cake 0]

If you really want to learn about the hand in question you should try and find out as much as possible about the table before playing no limit. If the table is tight and passive (likely), then if you have no chance of beating this guy then fold. If you have AA or KK, then raise about 1.5 x BB. see what the flop is like then betaccprding to that

[jakoye 0]

Good point about the larger bets and them screaming of a bluff. I like that analysis. I think his thinking was right in line with yours, which is good. The guy hadn't played with me enough to know that I always bet big, it is just my style. I did pick up a flush draw on the turn, counting my outs as 9 for the flush and 4 for the gutshot. I thought possibly and did in fact have 6 additional outs by pairing my 8 or 9.

I didn't see the flush draw. So you actually had more outs than I thought. Still, I wouldn't be too confident if a heart had come out on the river with my highest ranked heart being a 9. The fact that he was just calling your bets meant that he either had overcards or a draw (or both), so it wouldn't have been inconceivable for him to have higher ranked hearts. If he would've raised you at any point, that speaks like a high pair (for example if he would've raised you when the King hit on the turn). The fact that he never raised you, IMO, makes your 9 flush outs highly suspect. All outs are not created equally. I think your flush ones were fairly "dirty".But I like how you analyze your own play. It's what I try to do with my own play. It can only help.Good luck to you.

[troutsmart 0]

I didn't see the flush draw. So you actually had more outs than I thought. Still, I wouldn't be too confident if a heart had come out on the river with my highest ranked heart being a 9. The fact that he was just calling your bets meant that he either had overcards or a draw (or both), so it wouldn't have been inconceivable for him to have higher ranked hearts. If he would've raised you at any point, that speaks like a high pair (for example if he would've raised you when the King hit on the turn). The fact that he never raised you, IMO, makes your 9 flush outs highly suspect. All outs are not created equally. I think your flush ones were fairly "dirty". But I like how you analyze your own play. It's what I try to do with my own play. It can only help. This is a good point you make, and honestly not one I considered much during the hand. For some reason, perhaps because the flush draw came on the turn, I never put him on that particular draw. In my mind, I think my strongest suspicion was on QJ. I thought it was possible he had a K or T, but felt he would have reraised me on either the flop or turn. I guess what I'm saying, is that I felt strong that he was on a draw as well, but did have overcards. If any card T or higher hits on the river, I would have shut down. Again though, I admit my error in not suspecting a higher flush draw, being that I had him on a draw.I'm sure I'll think about this hand for a while. I've thought about other ways of playing it, and funny thing is, none sit right with me. I definitely wouldn't have played the hand any different up to my bet on the flop. That is fairly standard for me. Sometimes I mix it up, depending on my opponent. Thus, I really start to analyze the hand at the turn and river. The turn was the critical point. I had position and he had checked, giving me the opportunity to see a free card at the river with a decent amount of outs. I could have easily checked and checked again on the river or folded to a bet when I missed. I know a lot of players would favor this play. It was definitely the safe approach and would have saved me a ton of chips. However, I'm always looking for ways to win pots I'm involved in, when opportunities present themselves. I knew a nine high wasn't going to win the pot, and putting him on a draw, I fired away literally 90% sure he was going to fold. In my mind, he had to have AK, any set, or KT to call my raise with a made hand. I in no way felt he had any of those hands. I'm not exactly sure why I didn't, I just didn't feel he was slowplaying at all based on careful observation of any hand he was involved in previous. That being said, the only other hand I thought he could call with at the turn would be a very strong draw, which actually when I think about it, probably should have had a heart draw to it. So I'll analyze that turn bet over and over again, and don't know if I'll ever feel fine about anything. For the most part, I honestly was happy with my play. I'm still stunned that a player gambled over half of his chips calling down a bluff with AJ. When he flipped that over, I was dumbfounded and wondered if I had Stu Unger's ghost at my table. I've played with few players that would make that call based on how it played out, and not do so in stupidity. I almost felt like standing up and giving this guy a standing ovation. Wow! Still blows me away.Anyway, I think I've probably hashed this hand enough and bored anyone reading this to near mania. Sick thing is, like most of you I'm sure, this is just one of hundreds and hundreds of hands I just can't get out of my head. They haunt me when I sleep if I can actually get to sleep. I'm such a degenerate.Again, thanks for your feedback. You're keeping me thinking.

[Chez52 0]

I think you should've folded pre-flop. Seriously.If you're gonna let other people raggin' on you affect you so much and not raise pocket Kings and let 6 people come along with you to the flop... just fold 'em.

why are you even playing....i mean if six people cap pre-flop, then maybed toss it, but not if six paeople limp.....you should stay away from cards for life if you would fold

I really didnt let the others people ragging effect me mentaly....I thought from a stratagic standpoint that if limped and caught a set I could def break someone since they would never put me on it.......obviously it didnt work......sometimes you look brilliant when you do that other times you look like an idiot (BTW only 4 people decided to see a flop that hand with me.....so three other people)Had I have raised (Like i was suppose to and do most of the time) I would have surley lost my stack so i guess my timidness saved me......by no means do I think I played the hand the right way....in fact I played it about as worse as any amatuer would. But dont tell me give up cards.....Im sure your not perfect and made some mistakes along the way.....a lesser player still would have called with the kings....at least I had the disapline to know im beat and throw it away....

[Chez52 0]

I think you should've folded pre-flop. Seriously.If you're gonna let other people raggin' on you affect you so much and not raise pocket Kings and let 6 people come along with you to the flop... just fold 'em.

why are you even playing....i mean if six people cap pre-flop' date=' then maybed toss it' date=' but not if six paeople limp.....you should stay away from cards for life if you would fold[/quote'']Sorry Eddie......I orginally read your post a little fast......I looked at your first post where you agreed with my lay down.....my last post was in response to Jakoye.....I didnt know that you were talking to him not me......Sorry if i seemed lik an A$$hole.....It was my misunderstanding

[jakoye 0]

I really didnt let the others people ragging effect me mentaly....

This is the only part of your post that I disagree with. I think you DID let them get to you mentally. The fact that you even mentioned it means somethin'.

I thought from a stratagic standpoint that if limped and caught a set I could def break someone since they would never put me on it.......obviously it didnt work......sometimes you look brilliant when you do that other times you look like an idiot (BTW only 4 people decided to see a flop that hand with me.....so three other people)

I understand your reasoning, I just don't agree with it. You raise with pocket pairs to push people out so that your pp has a better chance of standing up. The only time I can see limping with Kings is if you're trying to trap someone head's up. I just can't see it, really, in ANY circumstances multi-player.But that's just me. You play poker the way you want to.

Had I have raised (Like i was suppose to and do most of the time) I would have surley lost my stack so i guess my timidness saved me......

Don't confuse one time results with best practices. You should raise with pocket Kings 99.9% of the time.

by no means do I think I played the hand the right way....in fact I played it about as worse as any amatuer would.

Yes.

But dont tell me give up cards.....

Fair enough. I was just having a little fun at your expense. Sorry if it was too harsh.

Im sure your not perfect and made some mistakes along the way.....

There is not even a number that could quantify them.

a lesser player still would have called with the kings....at least I had the disapline to know im beat and throw it away....

Yeah, you did make a good laydown in the situation you put yourself in. But I didn't criticize your laydown, I criticized your lack of raising with the Kings. And really, a TRULY good player would've raised with the Kings and then been able to make the same laydown. I've got the first part down... it's the second that I have trouble with!

[Smasharoo 0]

.Maybe the 6 gave him trips....or he could have a straight since there was no raising pre-flopMaybe you should have overbet the pot on the flop...

[The Sheriff JBJ 0]

there's a lesson to be learned from this. Winning a small pot with a big pair is much better than losing a decent sized one. So what if they had been raggin on you for playing tight, that's their problem not yours. This is a great case of FPS. Not playing K6 soooted and Q7 are normaaly good decisions anyway

Have to agree with this 100%Its vintage Super Series :wink: