the wrong laydown??

[Matt Over Aces 0]

Playing in the "Big Game" at Turning Stone Casino on a Friday night ($300 min buy in NL Hold-em, 5/10 blinds, 20 bring-in) the following hand came up: My stack at the start of the hand was about $2200. I was in MP with 2 2 . I limped after an early player limped, the blinds followed in and we saw a 4-handed flop of A :spade:2 3 . I love and hate the flop, but when it is checked to me, I bet roughly the pot, $90. An old pro who is in seat 1 quickly raises me 150 more. The BB takes his time (with an obvious flush draw) and then calls. The EP limper folds and it's back to me. I debate waiting to see the turn before putting in more money, but I decide that since there is at least one person drawing to the flush, I want to make him pay for it. It comes back to me and I raise to $700. The pro looks at me, says "You raised? I'm all in" with way more confidence than I'd ever like to be raised with. The guy with the flush draw puts in his last $800 and it's back on me. I think for about 2 minutes, knowing that if he has 33, I'm dead to one out, but if he has 45 for the nut straight, I am getting the correct price to gamble. I finally decide that there is a decent chance he has 33, I know that I am at least against 45 and so I fold my set face up. He turns over 45 for the nut straight. The flush never got there, but the turn was a 2 that would have made me quads. By the way, I also know that I made a mistake by raising so much and making it a much tougher decision for me. I folded with the reasoning that was was 95% certain that I was beat, I was just 50/50 on whether I was losing to a straight or a higher set. I know it only seems like I made a mistake because my card came, but what would you do in this situation.

[Royal_Tour 0]

what the fudge??.Is this all true, or was this a 1/2 nl game with a bit of a exaggeration?.since when do you need to re-raise to 700 so a flush isnt geting priced to call?. the flush wasnt getting priced to call when it was raised to 150.00.. hell even when you bet the pot his flush draw still isnt getting odds unless it was multi way, but as soon as the raise of 150 comes in. i think your re-raise was horribleno offence, you did manage to point it out yourself. P.S. YOu want draws to stay in. maybe you are nt playing above your BR, but seem like you are playing above your knowledge

[speedz99 145]

Eeeek. Terrible re-raise.The fold is questionable...but a tough call.

[Guest]

I think that the story is questionable.If it is true,

Eeeek. Terrible re-raise.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Op. here, and you can even check the odds if you were heads up against a flush. your a 75% - 25% fav. to win.http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_odds/texas...ToiMC4wMDUiO30=

[Staynerjohn 0]

Seems like you re-raised more out of pride than for info gathering...his raise would have told me to peel the turn and evaluate my hand...your set is so vulnerable in an unraise pot there...you have no idea what you are facing and your re-raise just added fuel to the fire...can I ask what your intent was with the re-raise?

[Matt Over Aces 0]

The story is true, it happend a few weeks ago on the Friday night before the Empire State Poker Championships (or whatever it's called this year at TS). I don't really care whether you question if it happened or not, I was just curious how you would have played it.I thought about just taking a card off, but since I knew at least one person was flushing, I really wanted him out of the hand.As for my raise, the small raise by the old guy was something he did routinely. If people came over the top of him, he'd often release the hand and I wanted him to know that I was serious about playing the hand.Agreed that it could have been accomplished more cheaply, but I made a relatively reasonable reraise to 700$ (460$ raise) into a pot of 800$ after 3 of us put in $240 (90$ + $150 raise) on the flop.My main question is:If you KNOW that you're losing the hand right now to a straight (which is favorable) or a higher set (drawing to one out), do you make the call or do you lay it down?

[Staynerjohn 0]

if you don't re-raise the answer is peel one...you said that the old guy would regularly bet as he did and then release...without the reraise and with your read, you were worried about the flush and a possible higher set...if it is the flush, then you have outs right? higher set, then you are looking for your 2 outer there...again taking the silly re-raise out that everyone agrees was just setting you up for the all-in re-raise- you can't play your set too weakly...you will get run over again and again with what most likely are the winning hands...in this case you call his $150 raise, peel the turn and hit your 2 outer...hello big pot

[chipsnski 0]

The story is true, it happend a few weeks ago on .My main question is:If you KNOW that you're losing the hand right now to a straight (which is favorable) or a higher set (drawing to one out), do you make the call or do you lay it down?

If I know I am behind but have a solid hand that could easily turn to be a winner, I am going to take the next card for as possibly cheap as possible. Especially when there is a "nut straight" "bigger set" potential out there.Example, $2-5, NL game.$45 to see the flop. 6 CALLERS to the raise.I flop a set of 10's with a board of 8-9-10 with two hearts. 6 people in the pot. Guy1 bets, guy 2 min raises, I smooth call so does 1 other guy and 2 folds. I know they are drawing and have mini-monsters but there is no way I am pushing them off their hands.

[dapokerbum 0]

Maybe I'm just a passive player but I would actually call and then what developed on the turn there is more to Hald em than the flop. With your thinking it would be better to call and see what happened next. Instead you threw away $700 of profit on nothing

[tswing 0]

It must be Al Krux?? right?

[hosshughes 0]

The main question is:If you KNOW that you're losing the hand right now to a straight (which is favorable) or a higher set (drawing to one out), do you make the call or do you lay it down?

You have 1 clean out with the case 2.You have 9 outs that may give you a win. (3 Aces, 3 3's, and 3 of whatever comes on the turn). Since you said you were 50/50 on the straight/overset read, you count these as 4.5 outs.So you have 5.5 outs with 2 cards to come. You presume that the flush drawer doesnt have any of your outs, which means your percentage 43/11 or basically 4 to 1. It's early so my math might be off but i think thats right.

[Matt Over Aces 0]

It must be Al Krux?? right?

The old pro was Joe Mack.Al Krux was at the table earlier in the evening, but he had left. It was the first time I played with him, but I don't think that I played more than one or two insignificant pots with him. I did play with him in the tourney the next day, as well as at the same $300 NL table the next day.2 important things:First, I didn't think I was behind at all until I got reraised all-in. At that point it became apparent that i was in trouble.Second, there were TWO other people in the pot. One person was on a flush DRAW (and called all-in after I reraised and was re-reraised) and I wanted him out of the pot. He wasn't factored into my final decision other than pot odds becuase if I was behind a straight and had to improve, it'd be to a FH or quads which would beat the flush he was drawing to.

[jayboogie 0]

You need to post the pot size as well as your opponents stack sizes. Given that you put in a huge re-raise on the flop and with so much money in the pot, I find it hard to believe this is a good laydown. How much money did the player in Seat 1 go All-In for exactly? Regardless, I think your getting just about the right price to call even if your sticking in your last 1400 or so in there. By my estimation, you're getting in the neighbourhood of 3:1 or 4:1 to call if you are putting all your chips in, against a straight and a flush draw, your about 37% ish to win, so mathematically, it's probably correct to call. As far as how you played the hand, I'd have probably waited for a safe turn to really start pushing my hand harder, but since you made such a big re-raise on the flop, I think you pretty much committed yourself to the hand and I really don't like the laydown much because of this. Pot size manipulation is so important in NL, it's really the key to becoming a good player when you get to the 10/20 NL levels and up.P.S. Next time you post a hand like this, don't post the results.

[Pokerghost2 0]

how much did the old man have? did he have u covered?if he started the hand with like 1k or 1200 u were pot commited after the huge reraise u made. i also agree with the previous poster, dont post the results. u really were in a pickle there if the old guy had u covered tho. no chance u were ahead given the limited info.

[Meatwad 0]

Never lay down anything, don't let them punks push you around, just put on the sunglasses to cover the tears and call it down.