doublesuited 0 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Have run into several hands like this recently and would like thoughts. All of the relative players in the hand are reasonable, tight and aggressive.NLHE with 5/10 blinds. All relative players have at least $1K in front of them In the BB with Kc 5d Folded to Button who open limp. SB limps. I check. Flop: Kd 8d 3d. SB checked. I bet 20. Button calls. Sb folds. Pot = 70 Turn: 7h. I bet 40. Button calls. River: KsWhat do you do? If you say check-call. How large a bet do you call? Link to post Share on other sites
BeanGW 0 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I like check/call because he may have missed and will bluff but could not call your bet. He also may have a very strong hand, and would then need to find the right price to sell it to you. I'd probably call a bet of 3/4 the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I wouldn't check river. He was either on a flush draw, or had an ace blank, my guess is ace diamond.If you were calling with a nut draw and overcard, missed completely, would you bluff at someone who bet each time? I don't think your check will get you more money.If he has the fourth king with a better kicker, you are going to lose money no matter what you do.If he flopped the flush, you caught the worst river you could catch, and you are going to lose some money.If your read that they are reasonable, tight and aggressive is right, than he won't likely raise you with anything short of the nuts.So if he raises you, fold.I would bet 200. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Id throw out 100 into this pot of 150, If I check it might enduce a big bluff that you scare you off. If he raises, I fold Link to post Share on other sites
Rocketwadster 0 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 What hands are calling that we can beat if we bet? Our hand is 3-kings with an 8 and a 7...we are not beating anything reasonable that I can see that would call our bet. Check. 8) Link to post Share on other sites
Blink20 0 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 What hands are calling that we can beat if we bet? Our hand is 3-kings with an 8 and a 7...we are not beating anything reasonable that I can see that would call our bet. Check. 8)I agree completely.Esp given that he is a TAG.If you had a different read on him, you could possibly get value from a worse hand calling...Your hand really sucks on this board, however, yo ucould call a bluff up to a certain amount, this is also very read dependent. Can't say with certainty one way or another how much you should call.. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Yeah, I would say check/call here. I would probably call any bet that is pot sized or less. Link to post Share on other sites
wannabe 0 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 easy check/call... betting is stupid.. its only gonna let him outplay you and make you lay down the best hand. I'm calling anything up to potsize bet here. all other points have been said.. he's not calling w/ a worse hand, and this allows him to make a bet, and not raise you for all your chips. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 You guys really think a check here is in order?Unless he limped with ace king...unlikely for a tight aggresive playermaybe king jack or King ten ten suited..Or a small flush made on the flop, but you would think he would raise the flop to protect from a suck out.A tight aggresive wouldn't slow play a made hand would he?So by betting you are keeping control of the hand, and will more than likely get a fold, but if you get a call you probably won, and if you get a raise, you lost, you store the play in your head and play it the same when you have the nuts.I would rather keep control and make him wonder if I'm bluffing with a 5x a 200 bet means he must put in half his chips to bluff you off this pot, or fold and only lose 75. I can't see a tight agressive player who can play well want to bluff on a person who bet every turn, and put in a pot+ size raise on river.But he may think his ace 8 is good for two pair top kicker and call.If you check and he bets 150 at you, you would probably have to think about it, and still call. He bets 250 you would probably fold.I will acknolwedge that I have probably less experience than many of you, so if I'm wrong I would like to know why. Link to post Share on other sites
loogie 115 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Check this river. Dude most likely missed his flush, and you're only getting more chips out of him when he bluffs. You never gave stack sizes, but I would call almost any amount that he bets here...maybe even all in. But, I bet he checks behind.Leading out here makes no sense at all. He's not calling with a worse hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 What do you do?Check/fold the flop in a miniscule pot?Why are we even looking at a river decision here? Link to post Share on other sites
loogie 115 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 But he may think his ace 8 is good for two pair top kicker and call.I will acknolwedge that I have probably less experience than many of you, so if I'm wrong I would like to know why.You've narrowed it down to one hand that he could have that would call your bet, AND it would have to be the Ace of diamonds, wouldn't it? Why else would he still be in the hand? So, you're essentially betting that he has this exact hand or maybe A7. This just isn't a wise move. However, if you check, A8 or A7 may try to bluff at you...along with many other hands that you beat. Link to post Share on other sites
TheMathProf 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I'd wonder why you're taking one of your hole cards and putting it out as the river.I would check it, but I'm a fish. Link to post Share on other sites
Egarim 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I don't understand why everyone is just throwing off the possibility of him slowplaying a big hand...I think u have 2 options. checkcall or bet from 60-100. Whoever said bet 200 doesnt know how to play nl. U can't go from 20 to 40 to 200. Not only that... by betting 200 u may commit urself to the pot if he was slowplaying... there's just no reason to bet this much.Also, I wouldn't just check and decide to call a certain amt or lower... Wait till he bets and reevaluate, determine if u have the best hand or not. I think the main goal of check calling here is to induce a bluff since he's not going to call u with many hands that you have beat. Also, by checking you avoid losing a lot more money if he slowplayed a big hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Egarim 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I'd wonder why you're taking one of your hole cards and putting it out as the river.I would check it, but I'm a fish.The deck is stacked. So the other guy could easily have quad kings. Link to post Share on other sites
allinbluff35 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 What do you do?Check/fold the flop in a miniscule pot?Why are we even looking at a river decision here?but TP with a flush draw dood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
doublesuited 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Author Share Posted August 13, 2005 I'd wonder why you're taking one of your hole cards and putting it out as the river.I would check it, but I'm a fish.The deck is stacked. So the other guy could easily have quad kings.I mistyped the hand. the river was a king of a different suit.Also to give some perspective. I bet the flop because i knew the button was tight enough that he wouldnt call with nothing so I figured I had a pretty good chance of taking down the small pot, something rather important in NLHE. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I figured I had a pretty good chance of taking down the small pot, something rather important in NLHE.Wrong game.Betting big to win little in NL is braindead. Link to post Share on other sites
doublesuited 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Author Share Posted August 13, 2005 I figured I had a pretty good chance of taking down the small pot, something rather important in NLHE.Wrong game.Betting big to win little in NL is braindead.Against a tight player, no. There is a pretty good chance this flop completely missed him. Definitely enough to risk 20 to win a 30$ pot.Against a loose player, I agree completely that you dont want to build a pot in this situation. But you need to take down some hands without a big hand for several reasons-- 1) to ensure you get some more action on your bigger hands and 2) keep your opponent playing defense. Link to post Share on other sites
nrs02004 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I dont really see too much wrong with a pot sized bet there (I would rather see it happen if you were on the button tho). I would say check call the river. Smash, I'm curious what you would do in this situation if you had been drunk earlier in the hand and accidentally bet out twice =), also why not make a pot sized bet on the flop? (I don't mean for this to sound like a challenge, as from your other posts I recognize that you are a better player than me, just kind of curious tho). Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Against a tight player, no. There is a pretty good chance this flop completely missed him. Definitely enough to risk 20 to win a 30$ pot. It's three handed.This flop has to miss both of them.Betting into this is assanine.Sorry.Getting involved in TINY pots, which this is, with marginal hands is the sign of a bad NL player. Link to post Share on other sites
doublesuited 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Author Share Posted August 13, 2005 Against a tight player, no. There is a pretty good chance this flop completely missed him. Definitely enough to risk 20 to win a 30$ pot. It's three handed.This flop has to miss both of them.Betting into this is assanine.Sorry.Getting involved in TINY pots, which this is, with marginal hands is the sign of a bad NL player.I think we have to agree to disagree on this one. Iw ill agree that the turn bet is questionable. Link to post Share on other sites
nrs02004 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 point taken smash Link to post Share on other sites
tdmlb24 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Bet the river, about $50 Link to post Share on other sites
Blink20 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Why are we even looking at a river decision here?Because that's what the OP asked about Link to post Share on other sites
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