did god creat man? or evolution?

[EarWaxEater 0]

A question that has been a puzzle to me all my life. It has been raised lately because of the publicity of some schools opting for "Intelligent Design" in classes.Then it just dawned upon me 2 minutes ago. God did not creat man. Why? Because if God is all powerful and perfect, then why would he create a creature like Man with so many weaknesses and faults?Why do I post this question here? Well, posting in a religious or scientific website would get biases opinions. Here, we get vast background of people with unbiased view because most of you care more on poker than the other two interests.

[Smasharoo 0]

The likelyhood that man didn't evolve from something is about equal to that he was placed on the planet by a giant yellow saucer of milk with a moustache who sings "Oklahoma".

[FOOSE1 0]

I have taken many courses on this same topic, and as a Christian believe that GOD did indeed create man. However, I feel that this will turn into a flame war if I throw out information that I know about Darwin, etc. So I suggest that you do some research of your own. There is a great website that I found in my search for the answer to this question. This guy was an Agnostic scientist who researched for years trying to find the same answer and has devoted his life to the same topic. The answers to probably every question you've ever had is on this website. Good Luck on your search.http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

[Boothy 0]

....... It depends. :roll:

[Wilderness 0]

I don't think you will get unbiased opinions here either, since Christians will obviously argue for God, while anyone who doesn't believe in him will argue for evolution.Personally, given what we know, I think its ridiculous for anyone to look at everything we've learned evolution and still continue to disbelieve it. I suppose you could say that God created evolution, if that's what it takes for you to sleep at night, but I don't have that problem.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Is that the only two choices we have?

[Pupsta 0]

I'm going to go with c) no farking clue. I don't know, you don't know, your pastor doesn't know, your science teacher doesn't know. My opinion is that there is a higher being that created matter, and that the matter evolved into what is today. I don't know if it's the christian god or whatnot, but some sort of celestial being.

[Tparks86 0]

It can't all be explained. It just can't. Christians are called to a small level of understanding and a large level of faith. We're given basic ideas and concepts, and truths about how God created the world, but there is so much that we don't know. There's so much that the best scientist, or theologan won't figure out. It's like this. ..God is on a level that is so much higher than us. If there's a God that created the world, and everything in it, think about that (holy crap, that is rediculous) then his understanding of things is so far greater than ours. I use this analogy. God trying to explain to us how everything happened, and how he created it all, and how it all took place would be like a man trying to teach an ant the alphabet. The levels of capacity and understanding are just too far off. The harder we try to "think" up a realistic answer the more we're kidding ourselves.

[redster 0]

boy i hate to think of the responses ill get to this, and i hate the only thing known about me is a somewhat negitive thing in most peoples eyes but anyway...man created god, not the other way around...theres no way something could create something like us, someone like me even, and consider this universe perfect...9/11, iraq, john kerry, tsunomi, no way a god could ever let these things happen...flame awayred

[FOOSE1 0]

Redster - No flaming just some thoughts from the Christian point of view. GOD created man. MAN sinned against GOD. GOD wiped out the entire "sinful" world with a great flood except Noah and his family (Noah's Ark story) so they could start the world over as a good world as GOD intended it. That didn't happen because MAN by nature is a sinful creature (we're not a perfect Universe). GOD realized we were not perfect and said he would never destroy the world in that way again. Instead he sent his son, Jesus Christ, to live as a human, experience the world first hand, and ultimately die on the cross for OUR sins. We are sinful and GOD has accepted us as such.GOD does not let these bad things happen. Sinful humans MAKE these things happen. Point to ponder: Everyone will probably agree that our society over the last 100 years has constantly gotten "worse" (and by worse I mean there are less morals than their use to be). All types of crime is up, divorce rate is up, people's morals are worse, sexual orientation, yadda . . . yadda . . . yadda. (Most) Christians believe that this is because the world is turning away from GOD. People do not look to GOD for answers like they used to. Instead they are looking for their own understanding of the world. So why then is the U.S. (more importatnly the world) experiencing more "bad things". To Christians it's simple. GOD blesses those who seek him out. Our nation (and world ) is turning it's back on GOD (WHICH IS WHAT THIS NATION WAS FOUNDED ON BY THE WAY). We are taking prayer out of school, out of sports, out of our courtrooms, etc. Ever heard "Ask and ye shall receive" . . . well nobody is asking anymore. Just my thoughts - flame ME if you wish.

[rog 0]

I think it's good to think about these things, and fun to discuss from time to time, but pointless nonetheless. The rules of evidence are not the same in science and religion. Faith and revelation constitute evidence from the religious perspective. Empirical measurement is the only evidence science recognizes. People from both camps dismiss the evidence of the other. Any attempt to disprove God using faith, or prove God using science are patently ridiculous, and bound to fail. Take Aquinas' proofs of the existence of God. They are now used as studies in logical fallacies in university level courses.Ultimately the two sides dont even have enough in common to carry on a discussion on this topic. That said, it is not a universal Christian view that evolution is wrong. There are many denominations that dont interpret the bible literally, and accept science, including evolution as being correct. The local Unitarian church here actually teaches a course on evolution because the schools fail to teach children what they consider an important scientific principle that is not at all inconsistent with faith in God and/or Christ.Rog

[MDXS 0]

redster wrote:

9/11, iraq, john kerry, tsunomi, no way a god could ever let these things happen...

You left out George Bush.FOOSE1 wrote:

Everyone will probably agree that our society over the last 100 years has constantly gotten "worse" (and by worse I mean there are less morals than their use to be)

This can't be argued. People have always been scummy.

All types of crime is up, divorce rate is up, people's morals are worse, sexual orientation, yadda . . . yadda . . . yadda.

Well, if we compare this to say, 1st century Rome, things haven't changed at all. 50% (or so) divorce rate, crime was probably worse then, and people engaged in all sorts of "unnatural" acts, though they didn't have any distinction between homosexual and heterosexual. This thinking that society is getting worse has been around since the beginning of Christianity and even before, extending back at least to the Greeks. That doesn't make it so. As for evolution, it makes perfect sense and for those who don't accept it (at least as the best model for describing how things got where they were), you're missing out on a lot of cool stuff.No offense intended in such a touchy subject, just getting my thoughts out.

[Eskimo 0]

Because if God is all powerful and perfect, then why would he create a creature like Man with so many weaknesses and faults?

Ah, but he did create us perfect.Adam and Eve were created perfect (without sin). Then once they sinned, they lost their perfection and original sin came into being.It is completely logical to believe in evolution and the fact that God created the universe.

9/11, iraq, john kerry, tsunomi, no way a god could ever let these things happen...

I book i recently read put it best... If you had a son and he wanted to go skateboarding would you tell him he couldn't skateboard because you were worried he might get hurt? Of course not! You'd let him skateboard, even if there was a chance he might get hurt. The same is true with God, he gave us free will and will not interfere with our free will.

Everyone will probably agree that our society over the last 100 years has constantly gotten "worse" (and by worse I mean there are less morals than their use to be)

And do you know why this is happening? John Paul II puts it best, "In the beginning of the 20th century we forgot what it meant to be a human being." We no longer value life as a sacred gift; we think life is disposable. That is greatest problem in the modern world. I would love to debate anybody on this issue.

[redster 0]

9/11, iraq, john kerry, tsunami, no way a god could ever let these things happen...

You left out George Bush.mxds, saying iraq was pretty much my shot at bush, i cant say i much agree with the war, but we already there may as well finish itFOOSE1im not here to flame either, i love an open discussion but i know people get heated up about these things. as far as saying god created man, all i want is more prove, in my heart i just cant believe it. as always is the case, i have no prove he didnt, and the only prove you have is the bible, so not much to argue about here. its just how i am, if theres ever a rapture ill be the first to admit im wrong but till then im having issues with it all...now on your pionts to ponder, let me say i 100% totally agree with you. im as open minded as an athiest can be i suppose, i hate holidays with a passion you could not believe, but even im tired of everyone bitching about the word christmas on a sign, are prayer in the schools. i think someone should hunt down the ACLU and....well i wont go there, they just better PRAY i never find a way to get away with murder lol, you want to know what wrong with this country, theres your start. anyway i dont want to start off on a rant, but like i said i agree with you here, things are going downhill fast, god or no god i think whats going on is wrong, and theres not much we can do about it...red

[MDXS 0]

mxds, saying iraq was pretty much my shot at bush, i cant say i much agree with the war, but we already there may as well finish it

To be honest, I completely glossed over Iraq. Nevermind. I agree with you though. Leaving now would make a mistake even worse.

[FOOSE1 0]

FOOSE1as far as saying god created man' date=' all i want is more prove, in my heart i just cant believe it. as always is the case, i have no prove he didnt, and the only prove you have is the bible, so not much to argue about here. its just how i am, if theres ever a rapture ill be the first to admit im wrong but till then im having issues with it all...Redster . . . I completely understand how you feel. For me the Bible is the truth. But I do understand the skepticism. Most Christians go through this same battle (they just don't admit it). Well, I'll admit it. When my wife and I first met we were both looking for answers. We were lucky enough to find them on our own. Now, our Faith is solid. What helped me more than anything was a class I took on Creation vs. Evolution. There was a 6 part series by a man named Ken Hamm. He was an agnostic scientist who devoted most of his life in search of this answer. After years of research he came to the conclusion that the "stories" in the bible on how the world was created could be backed by scientific evidence. I won't go into all the details but it really changed my life on how I viewed the world and how it was created. He has a website if you are interested in reading what he has to say on tons of different topics.http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.aspPlease don't misunderstand my intentions. I am not pressuring you. Just giving you some info on where to do some research if you want. The fact is, everyone has to find their own answer to this question. Nothing I can say (in a Poker Forum, LOL) will convince you or anyone otherwise. I just wish you good luck finding your answer, whatever it is.

[adamkadmon 0]

can't they both be true? is it imposibble? Beelzebubs tales to his grandson by g.i. gurjieff has some interesting metaphors and if you don't like those you can go to paul phillips church of apathy, he has some strong opinions on the subject. check out paul phillips journal for links.

[wrto4556 0]

I think the reason people made up a god, was because they can't imagine that when they die, that's all that happens. Your brain shuts down and you no longer exist. It's simple...just unacceptable for alot of people.

[MrConceit 0]

I think the reason people made up a god, was because they can't imagine that when they die, that's all that happens. Your brain shuts down and you no longer exist. It's simple...just unacceptable for alot of people.

Yeah, I somewhat agree, but it's considered somewhat rude to say it outright to devout christians (or those of any faith) to their faces. The majority of them were brought up that way, and you're in effect telling them that they or their parents can't "handle the truth". Oh I do also feel that it's a bit more of a "way to explain the world" thing than fear of death, though that factors into it quite a bit. I'm talking about the origin of religion, not christianity itself per se. Humans have always explained the things they don't understand in terms of greater powers beyond their ken. Wind spirits, Sun Gods, the list goes on and on. Many many ways over the years people explained phenomenon they didnt understand. It all just led (for western culture) eventually to monotheism, and from our perspective, to christianity.I do peronsally vote for option B, in that evolution (or something somewhat like it) created man, and then man created God. There are some problems with evolution theories explaining it all, but it's the best theory put out to date.

[redster 0]

Foose, ill check out that site sometime, i dont mind you trying to ummm convert me, i have a few christian friends and they push sometimes also, like i said im openminded, but i do draw a line...as far as answers , i think thats where you and i are different. im not looking for answers. i think mrconceit and wrto may have added a bit to what i was thinking. i just didnt know how to explain it. lol honestly i still dont. just glad theres a few people out there that agree with how i feel.either way there may be some hope for me, albeit little hope, cause im recently engaged to a lutheran, and as far as i can tell thats just a few notches below born-again, but she knows how i feel and doesnt try to change me, her parents on the other hand dont like it one bit, but i have this problem with living my life for jesus. im here to live life for myself, and i believe that i control all that happens good and bad. not what jesus sees fit for me to live. if i ever thought i didnt have a choice or free will as it may be, id quit living. maybe thats my answer...red

[ivan 0]

 i have this problem with living my life for jesus  

Try to imagine someone, with a straight face, exhorting you to have a personal relationship with Odin, Norse God of War, in the hope that when you die you may ascend to Valhalla? And telling you how awesome their life is, and their family's life, now that they've surrendered themselves to Odin?