Eddie-Money 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Hi, i've been reading for a while but this is my first post. I turned 18 last may and since have been playing online poker. I don't have hardly any money so i don't play for high stakes at all. I've been playing poker since i was a little kid though in family games and stuff like that and along with the poker craze have begun playing with friends all the time. My problem is this......I can't seem to be a consitsant winner at online poker. Whenever i am face to face with people i do very well, i am a consistant winner of home games and tournaments i enter. I win tournaments at my college all the time. I don't have a job and never have, and have always used my poker playing as a way to keep gas in my tank, but now i have difficulty finding games at school. Instead i have concentrated my efforts on online poker but can't seem to hit it big, and i don't know why. Anyone else have this problem? much more success offline than online?ThanksMy name is Eddie-Money on pokerroom Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Anyone else have this problem? much more success offline than online? Lots of people.Most of them are people who lose live, too, but don't keep records and fool themselves into thinking they're winning players. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Or, without being a dick like smash (no offense, you didn't offer much other than what you said), you play people not cards...which is what online poker is (straight cards - for the most part).My live game is stronger than my online game so I prefer live...I believe Jennifer harmon herself (duhn duhn) said it herself that her online game sucks cuz she can't "read" people as well...Stick to what you are comfortable with, and that sounds like live play.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie-Money 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Yeah i think i need to stick to live play as well, i just can't find a game around my college anymore. Its a small college and nobody seems to want to play with me after i took alot off em my first few weeks here. Don't get me wrong i am a profitable player online, its just not near as much and i have to grind it out alot more. I'll just have to keep playing and hopefully things will pick up.I finally got to a final table in a multi a few days ago, so things are looking up.Thanks for the replys.Eddie-Money Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Or, without being a dick like smash (no offense, you didn't offer much other than what you said), you play people not cards...which is what online poker is (straight cards - for the most part).No, I offered what is almost certainly the correct explination.Let's see, shall we?I'm going to be that Eddie doesn't keep records of his play, could't tell us how much he's won or lost this year, but is "Sure" that he's a winner becuase he knows he has money to sepnd when he leaves a game etc.Let's see if I'm right or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 That's fine, but you are only assuming and do not know for sure as you are claiming to be the most "probable" reason. I just gave another very valid option as to why (without claiming it to be an absolute). Online poker and poker are two very different games.Smash, I'm not looking to offend you or hurt your spirits, but many of your posts in reaction to anothers objection are very pompous.Good day sir, good luck with your 50-1000 goal.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Or, without being a dick like smash (no offense, you didn't offer much other than what you said), you play people not cards...which is what online poker is (straight cards - for the most part).No, I offered what is almost certainly the correct explination.Let's see, shall we?I'm going to be that Eddie doesn't keep records of his play, could't tell us how much he's won or lost this year, but is "Sure" that he's a winner becuase he knows he has money to sepnd when he leaves a game etc.Let's see if I'm right or not.I think it is stupid of you to assume that he was not actually a live winner. Believe it or not, some people are better in person than online, and you can't always assume you know everything about a player just because of a one paragraph post on this forum. That said, I have a theory of my own. Your home games and college tourneys probably had fairly weak competition. By going online you are jumping into a world of percentages, implied odds, etc, that your college buddies never heard of. Study the game, and you'll improve quickly. Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie-Money 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 In regard to what smash proposed.......you are correct in assuming that i don't keep records of wins/losses and i have no idea how much revenue i had last year from poker. all i know is that i made all my car payments and basicly spent money on whatever and had more money in my bank account at the end of the year than i did at the beginning so i'm pretty sure i played profitable poker. I appreciate ur posts and i hope u can take my word for this. I really should start keeping an accurate record though. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Eddie, just start a poker journal if needed.It's simple and reflects results as long as you're truthful.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 About 1% of people play better live than they do online.The other 99% tell themselves they do rather than fix the massive holes in their games. They play live, don't keep records and are convinced they play well, when really thy don't. In regard to what smash proposed.......you are correct in assuming that i don't keep records of wins/losses and i have no idea how much revenue i had last year from poker. The prosecution rests.Eddie, try reading Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller and then applying it to some low limit online games, as well as your live play.Post some hands you've played online and people here will be happy to help you become a better player.Alternately you could be an insecure idiot like many people and decide that you "Just don't do well online" and determine that your skills lie in your s33krit power to "read people" and look into their sould while playing $1/$2 with themGood luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 wow. Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie-Money 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thanks for all of the replys i will take all of the advise and try to improve my game. I consider myself a student of the game and will use these hardships online as a way to improve. Perhaps i will look into getting that book that smash suggested. If anyone else has and other readings to help improve my online game, i will take any advise i can get. I will aslo take any additional advise from anyone. Once again thanks for everyone who replied before and thanks in advance for all additional posts.Eddie-Money Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 try mike caro's book of poker tells.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
tekn0wledg 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I tink it's mind over matter to be honest. You have to convince yourself that playing online is no different than live play. Obviously it is, but you have to adapt and learn to love the online game as much as live games.I personally only miss the physical tells I get from live games, but there are similar things to watch for in online games.Alot of people experience what you are, particularly in the beginning of their online play. Stick with it and don't give up. If you give it enough time and enough practice you will start to win. Just avoid tilt and playing above your limits. Link to post Share on other sites
jayistheman 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 last year, i did better onlinethis year im doing better live.last year i played online morethis year i play live morei think its a matter of controlling your variance..... if you take a few beats online, then you might not have the means to put more money on quickly. therefore you take the loss, and quit. live, however, you have the money in your pocket and can keep playing. if you are a skilled player you will win anywhere consistently. you may not be playing online enough to handle the swings. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 About 1% of people play better live than they do online.The other 99% tell themselves they do rather than fix the massive holes in their games. They play live, don't keep records and are convinced they play well, when really thy don't. In regard to what smash proposed.......you are correct in assuming that i don't keep records of wins/losses and i have no idea how much revenue i had last year from poker. The prosecution rests.Eddie, try reading Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller and then applying it to some low limit online games, as well as your live play.Post some hands you've played online and people here will be happy to help you become a better player.Alternately you could be an insecure idiot like many people and decide that you "Just don't do well online" and determine that your skills lie in your s33krit power to "read people" and look into their sould while playing $1/$2 with themGood luck.I don't even know where to start with this load of junk."About 1% of people play better live than they do online." - just because you play better when you don't have to look anyone in the eye does not make it true for 99 out of 100 normal people. That doesn't even make any sense that EVERYONE is better online. "The prosecution rests" - once again, what the hell are you talking about? you are taking a small piece of his post out of context to prove your point. Did you completely ignore it when he explained that he made regular payments, and had pocket money constantly. Obviously, common sense says he was an overall winner.This brings me to your comment of "looking into their soul". If you don't understand reading people, I find it pathetic and it says a lot about online poker that you could be making money on those websites. It isn't about looking into people's soul, its about when they look at their chips, where they hold their hands, how aggressive their body language is.I'm sure you understand all of this, so why are you berating someone for saying they are a good live player? Get your head out of your ass and try to realize that some people are not posting to impress the fullcontactpoker junkies, they are just asking a legit question. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 About 1% of people play better live than they do online.The other 99% tell themselves they do rather than fix the massive holes in their games. They play live, don't keep records and are convinced they play well, when really thy don't. In regard to what smash proposed.......you are correct in assuming that i don't keep records of wins/losses and i have no idea how much revenue i had last year from poker. The prosecution rests.Eddie, try reading Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller and then applying it to some low limit online games, as well as your live play.Post some hands you've played online and people here will be happy to help you become a better player.Alternately you could be an insecure idiot like many people and decide that you "Just don't do well online" and determine that your skills lie in your s33krit power to "read people" and look into their sould while playing $1/$2 with themGood luck.I don't even know where to start with this load of junk."About 1% of people play better live than they do online." - just because you play better when you don't have to look anyone in the eye does not make it true for 99 out of 100 normal people. That doesn't even make any sense that EVERYONE is better online. "The prosecution rests" - once again, what the hell are you talking about? you are taking a small piece of his post out of context to prove your point. Did you completely ignore it when he explained that he made regular payments, and had pocket money constantly. Obviously, common sense says he was an overall winner.This brings me to your comment of "looking into their soul". If you don't understand reading people, I find it pathetic and it says a lot about online poker that you could be making money on those websites. It isn't about looking into people's soul, its about when they look at their chips, where they hold their hands, how aggressive their body language is.I'm sure you understand all of this, so why are you berating someone for saying they are a good live player? Get your head out of your ass and try to realize that some people are not posting to impress the fullcontactpoker junkies, they are just asking a legit question. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 About 1% of people play better live than they do online.The other 99% tell themselves they do rather than fix the massive holes in their games. They play live, don't keep records and are convinced they play well, when really thy don't. In regard to what smash proposed.......you are correct in assuming that i don't keep records of wins/losses and i have no idea how much revenue i had last year from poker. The prosecution rests.Eddie, try reading Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller and then applying it to some low limit online games, as well as your live play.Post some hands you've played online and people here will be happy to help you become a better player.Alternately you could be an insecure idiot like many people and decide that you "Just don't do well online" and determine that your skills lie in your s33krit power to "read people" and look into their sould while playing $1/$2 with themGood luck.I don't even know where to start with this load of junk."About 1% of people play better live than they do online." - just because you play better when you don't have to look anyone in the eye does not make it true for 99 out of 100 normal people. That doesn't even make any sense that EVERYONE is better online. "The prosecution rests" - once again, what the hell are you talking about? you are taking a small piece of his post out of context to prove your point. Did you completely ignore it when he explained that he made regular payments, and had pocket money constantly. Obviously, common sense says he was an overall winner.This brings me to your comment of "looking into their soul". If you don't understand reading people, I find it pathetic and it says a lot about online poker that you could be making money on those websites. It isn't about looking into people's soul, its about when they look at their chips, where they hold their hands, how aggressive their body language is.I'm sure you understand all of this, so why are you berating someone for saying they are a good live player? Get your head out of your ass and try to realize that some people are not posting to impress the fullcontactpoker junkies, they are just asking a legit question. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 About 1% of people play better live than they do online.The other 99% tell themselves they do rather than fix the massive holes in their games. They play live, don't keep records and are convinced they play well, when really thy don't. In regard to what smash proposed.......you are correct in assuming that i don't keep records of wins/losses and i have no idea how much revenue i had last year from poker. The prosecution rests.Eddie, try reading Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller and then applying it to some low limit online games, as well as your live play.Post some hands you've played online and people here will be happy to help you become a better player.Alternately you could be an insecure idiot like many people and decide that you "Just don't do well online" and determine that your skills lie in your s33krit power to "read people" and look into their sould while playing $1/$2 with themGood luck.I don't even know where to start with this load of junk."About 1% of people play better live than they do online." - just because you play better when you don't have to look anyone in the eye does not make it true for 99 out of 100 normal people. That doesn't even make any sense that EVERYONE is better online. "The prosecution rests" - once again, what the hell are you talking about? you are taking a small piece of his post out of context to prove your point. Did you completely ignore it when he explained that he made regular payments, and had pocket money constantly. Obviously, common sense says he was an overall winner.This brings me to your comment of "looking into their soul". If you don't understand reading people, I find it pathetic and it says a lot about online poker that you could be making money on those websites. It isn't about looking into people's soul, its about when they look at their chips, where they hold their hands, how aggressive their body language is.I'm sure you understand all of this, so why are you berating someone for saying they are a good live player? Get your head out of your ass and try to realize that some people are not posting to impress the fullcontactpoker junkies, they are just asking a legit question. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I'm not berating anyone.I'm stating a simple fact.Most people who think they play well live but not well online just don't play well.I have no problem playing live, I play live all the time. I win more per 100 hands playing live than online, but mainly because I'm playing people who are convinced they are better live players than they are online who really are just horrible.You know the type.Let me say it again:If you don't play well onnline, you don't play well.Stop lying to yourselves and get better. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Smash, what you said can be true, "if you dont play well online you dont play well live" - but there are parts of the game missing in both genre's. Again, as I said, and this may be lame of me, however, Jennifer Harmon herself said her online game is much worse than her live game (in this forum). I am only using her cuz she is a pro and someone you'd prob listen to because of that fact. Not coming from a lowly peon like myself.Miss harmon, if you read this, I mean no disrespect in using your "quote".- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 "How do I fare online? Wow, I just might be the worst online poker player in the world! LOL. "That is actually what she said. I doubt her complete sincerity (def. not the worst), but it prooves the point. A big part of the live game is not in the online game. Human contact, interaction, which is obviously a big part of her game and success.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
mreevit 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 About 1% of people play better live than they do online.The other 99% tell themselves they do rather than fix the massive holes in their games. They play live, don't keep records and are convinced they play well, when really thy don't. In regard to what smash proposed.......you are correct in assuming that i don't keep records of wins/losses and i have no idea how much revenue i had last year from poker. The prosecution rests.Eddie, try reading Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller and then applying it to some low limit online games, as well as your live play.Post some hands you've played online and people here will be happy to help you become a better player.Alternately you could be an insecure idiot like many people and decide that you "Just don't do well online" and determine that your skills lie in your s33krit power to "read people" and look into their sould while playing $1/$2 with themGood luck.I don't even know where to start with this load of junk."About 1% of people play better live than they do online." - just because you play better when you don't have to look anyone in the eye does not make it true for 99 out of 100 normal people. That doesn't even make any sense that EVERYONE is better online. "The prosecution rests" - once again, what the hell are you talking about? you are taking a small piece of his post out of context to prove your point. Did you completely ignore it when he explained that he made regular payments, and had pocket money constantly. Obviously, common sense says he was an overall winner.This brings me to your comment of "looking into their soul". If you don't understand reading people, I find it pathetic and it says a lot about online poker that you could be making money on those websites. It isn't about looking into people's soul, its about when they look at their chips, where they hold their hands, how aggressive their body language is.I'm sure you understand all of this, so why are you berating someone for saying they are a good live player? Get your head out of your ass and try to realize that some people are not posting to impress the fullcontactpoker junkies, they are just asking a legit question.I sometimes wonder why people get so touchy as to a member's question or reply to a question. Given that I think I'll elaborate on why I believe "Reading" people is not as hyped up as the WPT makes it to be. I was once a believer of this, believing that the only difference between a winning poker player and a losing poker player was the ability to "read" body language. I certainly agree that it is a very powerful skill of the consistent winner, but it is surely not the only one needed, and can be sacrificed without heavily affecting Hourly Rate. I believe this for two reasons:1)The ability to read a perfect stranger can only really be done if that player is a complete fish. You can only find these players at lower limits. 2)You can also read body language of other players, but only after many hours of play with this particular player can you be confident of your readReading player is based on more than body language, tone of voice, and direciton of the eyes. It is also, and more largely, based on the logic of how they bet their hands with regards to position and their exposed cards. If you completely base your entire read of a person on their body language, and if that person is not a complete fish, you may be proven wrong several times. This becomes more true the higher limits you play.In the defense of online poker, there are certain "tells" that players give off. Specifically, hesitation and time it takes to bet. That in addition to the logic of their betting patterns, which seems to remain consistent for many online players, is more than enough to provide an equal if not greater hourly rate than live play.Don't get me wrong. If I sat at a 1/2 PL HE, I could pretty much be confident of my reads every single time. You can't really be as confident sitting at 5/10 or 10/20 Limit. It certainly will give you an edge, but you will have more of an edge if you follow your instinct as it is right most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
jack24bauer24 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Comparing Jennifer Harman to any of us playing 10 25 cent poker on pokerstars is ridiculous...how many of us can read someone like Jennifer? To even compare the fact that Harman does much better in live games compared to the internet is quite idiotic really...comparing anything a top 10 in the world pro does against any of us (not including me, cuz i'm that good) is pretty illogical.If you do well live, you'll do well online. You might do better at one than the other, but you won't be amazing at one and suck at the other, you'll do more or less the same on each....if you have good game theories, mathematical skills and all around skill you'll do just aswell online as you do live.I might make the arguement that I do better online cuz I play multible tables and don't get bored like I do when i'm playing a single table at the casino and don't get to play a hand for an hour.A lot of what Smash says is true and makes complete sense.A lot of people also think cuz they have 5 100 dollar winning sessions in real life and one 500 dollar losing session that they are a winning player, cuz thats simply not the case. Link to post Share on other sites
Meotch08 0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 About 1% of people play better live than they do online. The other 99% tell themselves they do rather than fix the massive holes in their games. They play live, don't keep records and are convinced they play well, when really thy don't. I'm sure you can tell us all where you got those percentages.How dare I oppose the all knowing Smash. Link to post Share on other sites
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