flaw in ivey's game

[ldubble 0]

Hey everyone, I think I found a pretty big flaw in phil ivey's game that I want to share with yall. I don't claim that this is 100% accurate, but its just something I've observed and I want to get ur opinions on it. The flaw I have noticed with Ivey's game is that he overbets the pot quite a bit. This was very noticable on Day 6 of the WSOP. Here is the evidence...Hand 5 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, he comes in for a standard raise, Black reraises, and Ivey pulls some chips from his stack to shuffle them in one hand while he holds his cards in the other. Ivey counts out the chips and reraises right back at Black (I believe the amount is $500,000). Andrew Black, who is wearing his sunglasses upside-down (Marcel Luske-style), is taking his time here. Black moves all in, and Ivey quickly folds. Black shows Ad-2d as he collects the pot.Hand 8 - Joe Connor has the button in seat 9, Ivey raises, and Hachem calls. The flop comes Js-Jd-6c, Ivey checks, Hachem bets $150,000, and Ivey reraises to about $650,000. Hachem thinks briefly before saying, "All in," and Ivey quickly folds. In two hands, Ivey lost over a million in chips with vast overraises. I don't claim to be a poker pro, but I assume a $200,000-$300,000 raise in both instances would be able to determine whether or not his opponent had a hand. Furthermore, the hand Ivey eventually busts out on JJ vs KK could have been avoided in my opinion. CardPlayer's analysis of this hand wasn't clear, but what I did know was that Ivey had around $2.5 million at the time and the blinds were 25,000-50,000 I believe. I think that putting 50X BB in the pot with a middle pair (JJ is a middle pair) is a bit of an overbet again. For someone at this stage to call $2.5 million, they have to pretty much have QQ, KK, AA, or AK. The only hands that Ivey might have beat are 1010 or 99, which is not likely. I think that Ivey should have gotten away from this hand. Beyond just the World Series, we have also seen Ivey overplay his cards at the Reno WPT. The two pocket pairs were "unavoidable" as Mike Sexton says, but I thought Ivey once again overraised and overcalled in those situations. The Foxwoods meltdown in Season 1 where Ivey bet over 50X BB with AQ suited into Lederer (the other big stack in that tourney) was an overplay in my mind as well. Now don't get me wrong, I think Phil Ivey is the best poker player in the world today and his tournament results have been fantastic. However, I think he has a bad flaw of overbetting pots, especially in crunch time of big tournaments. Of course, Ivey has been plagued with a run of bad luck as well in these situations, but he can also avoid them if he didn't overbet and commit himself too much. Matusow was right in his CardPlayer interview, a player the caliber of Phil Ivey doesn't need to play big pots. However, when the pressure is on, Ivey always seems to be in all the big pots and more often than not this year, he's been on the wrong side.

[Spademan 94]

You're kidding right?On the wrong side? He's cashed in tourn after tourn after tourn leading up to the WSOP where he won a bracelet then made it to the final tables of the ME that started with over 5600 people... and he's been on the wrong side of the big pots more often than not?How do you think he got all those chips to be in position to raise so big, fold to a reraise, and still have enough chips do to it again, then still have enough chips to bust out on a tough read against K's?By under-raising maybe? Nope.You're wrong.

[Patricnz 0]

alls well that flames well

[Pokerghost2 0]

You're kidding right?On the wrong side?  He's cashed in tourn after tourn after tourn leading up to the WSOP where he won a bracelet then made it to the final tables of the ME that started with over 5600 people... and he's been on the wrong side of the big pots more often than not?How do you think he got all those chips to be in position to raise so big, fold to a reraise, and still have enough chips do to it again, then still have enough chips to bust out on a tough read against K's?By under-raising maybe?  Nope.You're wrong.

actually spademan, in the instances he quoted how can u say hes wrong? And has he overplayed AQ at the tail end of big tourns before? This is not to say hes not an incredible player because he is but when u make that big overbet w an avg hand preflop and someone comes over the top of u causing u to let the hand go i think thats a mistake. even if you are the best poker player alive. against the guy who had A2 either that guy was a complete donkey or he thought ivey was overselling his hand a bit and made a great play. my guess is...donkey.

[Booyakasha 0]

Hey everyone, I think I found a pretty big flaw in phil ivey's game that I want to share with yall. I don't claim that this is 100% accurate, but its just something I've observed and I want to get ur opinions on it.  The flaw I have noticed with Ivey's game is that he overbets the pot quite a bit. This was very noticable on Day 6 of the WSOP. Here is the evidence...Hand 5 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, he comes in for a standard raise, Black reraises, and Ivey pulls some chips from his stack to shuffle them in one hand while he holds his cards in the other. Ivey counts out the chips and reraises right back at Black (I believe the amount is $500,000). Andrew Black, who is wearing his sunglasses upside-down (Marcel Luske-style), is taking his time here. Black moves all in, and Ivey quickly folds. Black shows Ad-2d as he collects the pot.Hand 8 - Joe Connor has the button in seat 9, Ivey raises, and Hachem calls. The flop comes Js-Jd-6c, Ivey checks, Hachem bets $150,000, and Ivey reraises to about $650,000. Hachem thinks briefly before saying, "All in," and Ivey quickly folds.  In two hands, Ivey lost over a million in chips with vast overraises. I don't claim to be a poker pro, but I assume a $200,000-$300,000 raise in both instances would be able to determine whether or not his opponent had a hand.  Furthermore, the hand Ivey eventually busts out on JJ vs KK could have been avoided in my opinion. CardPlayer's analysis of this hand wasn't clear, but what I did know was that Ivey had around $2.5 million at the time and the blinds were 25,000-50,000 I believe. I think that putting 50X BB in the pot with a middle pair (JJ is a middle pair) is a bit of an overbet again. For someone at this stage to call $2.5 million, they have to pretty much have QQ, KK, AA, or AK. The only hands that Ivey might have beat are 1010 or 99, which is not likely. I think that Ivey should have gotten away from this hand.  Beyond just the World Series, we have also seen Ivey overplay his cards at the Reno WPT. The two pocket pairs were "unavoidable" as Mike Sexton says, but I thought Ivey once again overraised and overcalled in those situations. The Foxwoods meltdown in Season 1 where Ivey bet over 50X BB with AQ suited into Lederer (the other big stack in that tourney) was an overplay in my mind as well.  Now don't get me wrong, I think Phil Ivey is the best poker player in the world today and his tournament results have been fantastic. However, I think he has a bad flaw of overbetting pots, especially in crunch time of big tournaments. Of course, Ivey has been plagued with a run of bad luck as well in these situations, but he can also avoid them if he didn't overbet and commit himself too much. Matusow was right in his CardPlayer interview, a player the caliber of Phil Ivey doesn't need to play big pots. However, when the pressure is on, Ivey always seems to be in all the big pots and more often than not this year, he's been on the wrong side.

This might be the single handed dumbest post of the year. Phil Ivey has placed in the top 25 three of the last four years and your epiphany is that there is a big flaw in his game?JJ is NOT a medium pair - it is a strong hand heads up and he is ahead 55-45 against AK my friend. QQ, KK or AA are the only hands he's worried about. So, it's not a terrible - not a great one, but CERTAINLY not a terrible one.Ivey is mad-aggressive - he gets people to lay their hands down - he mucks quickly if he thinks he's beat - he clearly knows what he is doing.People tend to play more fearlessly against pro's - the hope of busting a pro - bla bla bla.Or even better, maybe you should point out your flaw to Phil Ivey - I am sure he would appreciate your intensely analytical theory on his weak play.How bout telling something to moneymaker - like - don't be a retard or 'how do you get so lucky?'Geez.

[Spademan 94]

actually spademan, in the instances he quoted how can u say hes wrong? And has he overplayed AQ at the tail end of big tourns before? This is not to say hes not an incredible player because he is but when u make that big overbet w an avg hand preflop and someone comes over the top of u causing u to let the hand go i think thats a mistake. even if you are the best poker player alive. against the guy who had A2 either that guy was a complete donkey or he thought ivey was overselling his hand a bit and made a great play. my guess is...donkey.

The instances he quoted are going to happen in every single tourn.Unless you think that a pro can play a tourn that big and never lay down a hand after a big raise. He had the stack to make those plays, and still have chips to make those plays again because of all the times his 'over-raise' worked.As to him 'overplaying' AQ at the tail end of tourns, I'm wondering if you saw the hands. He took a terrible beat on the last one I remember, and he was in a race situation in another I can remember. Getting your chips in when you're dominate or racing is not overplaying.Think big picture here, he's going to get caught with that aggression sometimes, and sometimes at the tail end of a tourn....but it got him there in the first place.

[shedrackle 0]

There is a flaw in Phil Ivey's game. He mentioned it in a interview recently. The flaw he mentioned; for a while he didn't take tournaments seriously because there were always a huge amount of cash games available.He said he's corrected this flaw. As we can all see from his recent wins and final table appearences he has indeed corrected this "flaw", if you would call it that.He's a great player. period!

[TheIceman05 0]

1) Cardplayer reports are horribly unreliable. 2) Ivey raises. Black reraises. How many chips are in the pot about now? I I don't know what the blinds were, so I'm just totally guessing here, but what if it were something like this?Ivey brings it in for 100K straight. Black reraises to 250. At this point, there's more than 700K in the pot. A 500K reraise isn't anywhere NEAR excessive.Trust me. Ivey doesn't overbet the pot. He just won't pussyfoot around. He sends that message that "if you want to get involved, it will cost you a big chunk of your stack." This is, uh, why he's so successfully bullying. If you play back at him, he won't hesitate to fire againIce

[mcpickl 0]

Hey everyone, I think I found a pretty big flaw in phil ivey's game that I want to share with yall. I don't claim that this is 100% accurate, but its just something I've observed and I want to get ur opinions on it.  The flaw I have noticed with Ivey's game is that he overbets the pot quite a bit. This was very noticable on Day 6 of the WSOP. Here is the evidence...Hand 5 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, he comes in for a standard raise, Black reraises, and Ivey pulls some chips from his stack to shuffle them in one hand while he holds his cards in the other. Ivey counts out the chips and reraises right back at Black (I believe the amount is $500,000). Andrew Black, who is wearing his sunglasses upside-down (Marcel Luske-style), is taking his time here. Black moves all in, and Ivey quickly folds. Black shows Ad-2d as he collects the pot.Hand 8 - Joe Connor has the button in seat 9, Ivey raises, and Hachem calls. The flop comes Js-Jd-6c, Ivey checks, Hachem bets $150,000, and Ivey reraises to about $650,000. Hachem thinks briefly before saying, "All in," and Ivey quickly folds.  In two hands, Ivey lost over a million in chips with vast overraises. I don't claim to be a poker pro, but I assume a $200,000-$300,000 raise in both instances would be able to determine whether or not his opponent had a hand.  Furthermore, the hand Ivey eventually busts out on JJ vs KK could have been avoided in my opinion. CardPlayer's analysis of this hand wasn't clear, but what I did know was that Ivey had around $2.5 million at the time and the blinds were 25,000-50,000 I believe. I think that putting 50X BB in the pot with a middle pair (JJ is a middle pair) is a bit of an overbet again. For someone at this stage to call $2.5 million, they have to pretty much have QQ, KK, AA, or AK. The only hands that Ivey might have beat are 1010 or 99, which is not likely. I think that Ivey should have gotten away from this hand.  Beyond just the World Series, we have also seen Ivey overplay his cards at the Reno WPT. The two pocket pairs were "unavoidable" as Mike Sexton says, but I thought Ivey once again overraised and overcalled in those situations. The Foxwoods meltdown in Season 1 where Ivey bet over 50X BB with AQ suited into Lederer (the other big stack in that tourney) was an overplay in my mind as well.  Now don't get me wrong, I think Phil Ivey is the best poker player in the world today and his tournament results have been fantastic. However, I think he has a bad flaw of overbetting pots, especially in crunch time of big tournaments. Of course, Ivey has been plagued with a run of bad luck as well in these situations, but he can also avoid them if he didn't overbet and commit himself too much. Matusow was right in his CardPlayer interview, a player the caliber of Phil Ivey doesn't need to play big pots. However, when the pressure is on, Ivey always seems to be in all the big pots and more often than not this year, he's been on the wrong side.

lol. what a joke.hopefully ivey reads this and takes your advice, since hes probably the best in the world right now, hes got nowhere to go but down

[nealdo17 0]

Hey everyone' date=' I [b']think[/b] I found a pretty big flaw in phil ivey's game that I want to share with yall. I don't claim that this is 100% accurate, but its just something I've observed and I want to get ur opinions on it. Since you asked for opinions, my opinion would be not to think anymore. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life. Cardplayer gives 3 pivotal hands with no background as to previous hands. TV probably wont accurately capture the story accurately either due to editing. What if Black had been reraising into him all night and been showing 2-7, 4-2, or K-4? Do you not reraise to get a sense of where you truly are in the hand?

[wontbez 0]

Hey everyone, I think I found a pretty big flaw in phil ivey's game that I want to share with yall. I don't claim that this is 100% accurate, but its just something I've observed and I want to get ur opinions on it.  The flaw I have noticed with Ivey's game is that he overbets the pot quite a bit. This was very noticable on Day 6 of the WSOP. Here is the evidence...Hand 5 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, he comes in for a standard raise, Black reraises, and Ivey pulls some chips from his stack to shuffle them in one hand while he holds his cards in the other. Ivey counts out the chips and reraises right back at Black (I believe the amount is $500,000). Andrew Black, who is wearing his sunglasses upside-down (Marcel Luske-style), is taking his time here. Black moves all in, and Ivey quickly folds. Black shows Ad-2d as he collects the pot.Hand 8 - Joe Connor has the button in seat 9, Ivey raises, and Hachem calls. The flop comes Js-Jd-6c, Ivey checks, Hachem bets $150,000, and Ivey reraises to about $650,000. Hachem thinks briefly before saying, "All in," and Ivey quickly folds.  In two hands, Ivey lost over a million in chips with vast overraises. I don't claim to be a poker pro, but I assume a $200,000-$300,000 raise in both instances would be able to determine whether or not his opponent had a hand.  Furthermore, the hand Ivey eventually busts out on JJ vs KK could have been avoided in my opinion. CardPlayer's analysis of this hand wasn't clear, but what I did know was that Ivey had around $2.5 million at the time and the blinds were 25,000-50,000 I believe. I think that putting 50X BB in the pot with a middle pair (JJ is a middle pair) is a bit of an overbet again. For someone at this stage to call $2.5 million, they have to pretty much have QQ, KK, AA, or AK. The only hands that Ivey might have beat are 1010 or 99, which is not likely. I think that Ivey should have gotten away from this hand.  Beyond just the World Series, we have also seen Ivey overplay his cards at the Reno WPT. The two pocket pairs were "unavoidable" as Mike Sexton says, but I thought Ivey once again overraised and overcalled in those situations. The Foxwoods meltdown in Season 1 where Ivey bet over 50X BB with AQ suited into Lederer (the other big stack in that tourney) was an overplay in my mind as well.  Now don't get me wrong, I think Phil Ivey is the best poker player in the world today and his tournament results have been fantastic. However, I think he has a bad flaw of overbetting pots, especially in crunch time of big tournaments. Of course, Ivey has been plagued with a run of bad luck as well in these situations, but he can also avoid them if he didn't overbet and commit himself too much. Matusow was right in his CardPlayer interview, a player the caliber of Phil Ivey doesn't need to play big pots. However, when the pressure is on, Ivey always seems to be in all the big pots and more often than not this year, he's been on the wrong side.

lol. what a joke.hopefully ivey reads this and takes your advice, since hes probably the best in the world right now, hes got nowhere to go but down

I too disagree, although I won't do it in a way that criticizes you for posting. While a good observation, I think Ivey understands the risks of his aggression and takes the risk in order to put himself in a position to win tournaments. I don't think we'd be seeing much of Ivey if he changed his style.

[Pokerghost2 0]

actually spademan, in the instances he quoted how can u say hes wrong? And has he overplayed AQ at the tail end of big tourns before? This is not to say hes not an incredible player because he is but when u make that big overbet w an avg hand preflop and someone comes over the top of u causing u to let the hand go i think thats a mistake. even if you are the best poker player alive. against the guy who had A2 either that guy was a complete donkey or he thought ivey was overselling his hand a bit and made a great play. my guess is...donkey.

The instances he quoted are going to happen in every single tourn.Unless you think that a pro can play a tourn that big and never lay down a hand after a big raise. He had the stack to make those plays, and still have chips to make those plays again because of all the times his 'over-raise' worked.As to him 'overplaying' AQ at the tail end of tourns, I'm wondering if you saw the hands. He took a terrible beat on the last one I remember, and he was in a race situation in another I can remember. Getting your chips in when you're dominate or racing is not overplaying.Think big picture here, he's going to get caught with that aggression sometimes, and sometimes at the tail end of a tourn....but it got him there in the first place.

yea, im not sure if the op found a leak or whatever im saying that hes human and made some mistakes on the hands the op quoted. ur wondering if i saw the hands regarding the AQ plays? well im sure i dint see all of them, but i did see 2. i have them on dvd in fact. the first "coinflip" was against howard lederers KK at foxwoods, the second was against kirill gerasimovs AKc at the wpt championships in season 1. So donkey he wasnt dominant or racing and yes i did see them plenty of times.

[karr2242 0]

I love these idiotic posts claiming tells on Ted Forrest and flaws in Ivey's game......they bring intense laughter to my days

[AK33 0]

JJ is NOT a medium pair - it is a strong hand heads up and he is ahead 55-45 against AK my friend. QQ, KK or AA are the only hands he's worried about. So, it's not a terrible - not a great one, but CERTAINLY not a terrible one. I don't know exactly what Ivey has in chips at this point but lets assume he was on a big stack. Putting in a lare raise is fine with this hand but I don't think he needs to go in with this here, think about it, if someone calls he is at best a 55-45 favorite as stated above, if he takes a flop I think he has a much higher chance of out playing anyone at his table, why wouldn't you take a flop??

[wontbez 0]

I love these idiotic posts claiming tells on Ted Forrest and flaws in Ivey's game......they bring intense laughter to my days

Really? Thanks!!!