Perhaps the pros misread Sklansky's book

[edingerlaw 0]

I still don't understand the professionals' mentality with coin flips. Aren't they suppose to have the edge after the flop and reading people? There is $7 million in prize money and millions more in endorsements if a professional wins the WSOP. (probably worth 15 million to the pro) I still don't understand the reckless play by some of the professionals. At a pro/am golf tournament do you ever see 1/2 of the pros not make the first cut? Ever?I understand the rationale for accumulation of chips. But can't the superior pro start accumulating chips in the second day by using theirsuperior play and reading of people against the internet players and other donkeys?As an aside, the winner of the local ND Indian casino WSOP qualifier made in through day one. She has 20 K in chips. She plays BASIC yet solid poker. She probably won't make it in the $, but she is one of only 1850players whose dream is still alive.

[93transam 0]

usually when they say its a coin flip situation its because someone is all in, so its just a race to the river to see who wins...sure they might realize this before they call their all in but in most cases they will have their stacks covered, etc. it all depends on the table image and how the game's been going.

[edingerlaw 0]

I was referring to coin flips where the professionals risk their tournament lives.

[Kendren 1]

I still don't understand the professionals' mentality with coin flips.  Aren't they suppose to have the edge after the flop and reading people?  There is $7 million in prize money and millions more in endorsements if a professional wins the WSOP.  (probably worth 15 million to the pro) I still don't understand the reckless play by some of the professionals.  At a pro/am golf tournament do you ever see 1/2 of the pros not make the first cut?  Ever?I understand the rationale for accumulation of chips.  But can't the superior pro start accumulating chips in the second day by using theirsuperior play and reading of people against the internet players and other donkeys?As an aside, the winner of the local ND Indian casino WSOP qualifier made in through day one.  She has 20 K in chips.  She plays BASIC yet solid poker.  She probably won't make it in the $, but she is one of only 1850players whose dream is still alive.

Maybe. The problem is if you have 15k or 20k in chips, all it takes is one time your cards don't hold up and you're done. Many of them would rather just bust out early and get to the 1000-2000 cash games than try to grind it out with a short stack against 1850ish people.

[AngloBoy 0]

The Pros are in these tournaments to win them though, and if as in your scenario they are already shorter stacked than the Internet qualifiers and they get AK they may as well take their chance.Just because you read someone, and outplay them doesn't mean you will always win.

[Smasharoo 0]

At a pro/am golf tournament do you ever see 1/2 of the pros not make the first cut? Ever?Golf is 90% skill 10% luck.Poker is 90% luck 10% skill.Do you see why your post is stupid now?

[Mr Monkey 0]

with a tournament that big u have to get chips and get lucky. i would do the samething. if u dont take risks how will u get enough chips to win. if everyone else is taking risks and u dont u will have no chance of winning. this isnt a 300 person tourney. who wants to sit their for 14 hours and not have much of a chance. u have to win a lot of coin flips so u might as well start early. if u get eliminated u say yourself a long days work.

[edingerlaw 0]

and they have 20 K in chips. Assuming they are playing well and catching some cards, they could easily get their stack to over 50-60K within the first couple of levels in day two. Presumably, they now areback in the thick of things.If a professional wins the 2005 WSOP, they are set for life. Why is there a need to gamble on day one?

[edingerlaw 0]

Poker is 90% luck and only 10% skill. LOL Who is the stupid one?

[93transam 0]

Poker is 90% luck and only 10% skill. LOL  Who is the stupid one?

i guarantee smasharoo would know better than you would.

[Smasharoo 0]

Poker is 90% luck and only 10% skill. LOL Who is the stupid one?Was that rhetorical, or did you want to be told that you were the stupid one?Let me know.LOL

[Kendren 1]

and they have 20 K in chips.  Assuming they are playing well and catching  some cards,  they could easily get their stack to over 50-60K within the first couple of levels in day two. Presumably, they now are back in the thick of things.If a professional wins the 2005 WSOP, they are set for life.  Why is there a need to gamble on day one?

All together now, kids, what does assuming do?Most pros don't want to have to rely on "catching some cards" on day two. They would rather put the pressure on now. And your poker vs golf analogy is so beyond idiotic I'm just skipping it. I'll just let Smash handle it.

[Mr Monkey 0]

when u start off with 10 000 chips it takes a long time to acumulate chips up to where u need to be without coinflips.. so when their are other players getting big stacks fast because of coin flips u better do the same thing or u will most likey be toast

[sqirel 0]

At a pro/am golf tournament do you ever see 1/2 of the pros not make the first cut? Ever? There is no such golf tournament where equal amounts of pros and amateurs compete to make a cut. There are, however, a small amount of amateurs in almost every golf tournament. In majors there are a few more but they never make up more than 5% or so of the field not 90% of the field like the world series. And like smash said luck has little to do with who wins a golf tournament while it has everything to do with who wins the main event. So this is a very bad comparison.

[suckerfish 0]

At a pro/am golf tournament do you ever see 1/2 of the pros not make the first cut? Ever?Golf is 90% skill 10% luck.Poker is 90% luck 10% skill.Do you see why your post is stupid now?

If poker was 90% luck then no one could be a consisitent winner in the game. Do you think grinders are a fairy tale? Read Sklansky and you'll get a better idea of what the true ratio is.

[93transam 0]

hes talking about the tournaments, where luck is about 90% of it.

[Smasharoo 0]

If poker was 90% luck then no one could be a consisitent winner in the game. Do you think grinders are a fairy tale? Read Sklansky and you'll get a better idea of what the true ratio is.I know more about poker than you will ever be able to comprehend.10% is a huge edge. Vegas was built with much smaller edges.Do you feel like an idiot yet, or should I keep going?Let me know.

[teneight 1]

smash is correct. poker tournaments are a huge luck fest. no less than 75% is luck and 25% skill. but 25% is still a big edge. this is gambling you know

[Herr Mensch 0]

I understand the rationale for accumulation of chips.  But can't the superior pro start accumulating chips in the second day by using theirsuperior play and reading of people against the internet players and other donkeys?

Yes. His name is Dan Harrington. He finished with a bit more than double his buyin after his flight. I don't know, but it would surprise me if he was ever all-in and behind a coin flip on Day 1. Perhaps he's too cautious at times, but look at a list of the all-time top WSOP moneywinners. Action Dan has climbed the ladder in the last two years. If I had to put money on one final tabler from last year to make it again this year, Dan is the man.Mensch

[Smasharoo 0]

but look at a list of the all-time top WSOP moneywinners.Then laugh about how meaningless that is when you realize Varkoni is way ahead of Johnny Moss.

[citystars 0]

90% luck? im sorry but that is a ridiculous amount of luck.I would say 50 skill 50 luck. Getting cards is luck,Getting your opponents whole stack is not luck, its not luck that his chips just fell into the pot is it?Your pretty full of yourself, you think your so much smarter then everyone else here but your really not, just because you have more posts then pretty much anyone here doesnt mean your smarter it means that you waste your time on here instead of doing something productive(try not to make a joke about how im wasting my time on here)Most of your posts are RETARDED anyways, with no value, and you really just post for the hell of it.again, getting the cards is luck, playing them and your opponents is skill.

[Smasharoo 0]

90% luck? im sorry but that is a ridiculous amount of luck.I would say 50 skill 50 luck. Getting cards is luck,Getting your opponents whole stack is not luck, its not luck that his chips just fell into the pot is it?Your pretty full of yourself, you think your so much smarter then everyone else here but your really not, just because you have more posts then pretty much anyone here doesnt mean your smarter it means that you waste your time on here instead of doing something productive(try not to make a joke about how im wasting my time on here)Most of your posts are RETARDED anyways, with no value, and you really just post for the hell of it.again, getting the cards is luck, playing them and your opponents is skill.8X10 glossy is $10.PM me for the adress to send the check too.HAHAHA.Man, I'm great.

[jayboogie 0]

What he's talking about is for a particular tournament, it's mostly luck. The edge you have over your opponents in a tournament is usually not huge, about 5-10% possibly over the weaker players, which is already very good. For a particular tournament, it is a crapshoot, but you take this 5-10% edge you have over a long period of time and you should end up very high on the positive end when it's all said and done.

[Kendren 1]

8X10 glossy is $10.PM me for the adress to send the check too.HAHAHA.Man, I'm great.

Only headshots available? Or do you have posed shots? My wife's birthday is coming up, would make a good gift

[Dogstooth5 0]

What he's talking about is for a particular tournament, it's mostly luck.  The edge you have over your opponents in a tournament is usually not huge, about 5-10% possibly over the weaker players, which is already very good.  For a particular tournament, it is a crapshoot, but you take this 5-10% edge you have over a long period of time and you should end up very high on the positive end when it's all said and done.

True, but a 5-10% edge may only be good over time if you have the bankroll to stay alive. Poker is mostly luck. DN has had a very unlucky run. Last year he had a very lucky run. There may be some skill involved, but overall it is luck. Thats why they call it gambling.Besides, 9 out of 10 poker players are losers.