serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 There should always be business that do better outside of the core, but those business park type developments are pretty antiquated planning principles already. There's a new movement for lots of those companies to go back downtown because that's how they attract the best talent. Writing on my phone so that's as in depth as I can get. Lol So those of us that live in the suburbs, are less educated? is that an actual study, or you pull that out of thin air, because thats a really weak argument...Better talent lives downtown?? Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 There should always be business that do better outside of the core, but those business park type developments are pretty antiquated planning principles already. There's a new movement for lots of those companies to go back downtown because that's how they attract the best talent. Writing on my phone so that's as in depth as I can get. Lol Arp and Serge aren't talking about small business park developments. In Markham there are some very large office buildings and complexes. Remember that Toronto has many different "city centers" so a large development at the 404 and 7 in Markham is in a more dense "downtown" like area compared to some suburban places in the US. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 York Region made a conscience decision to tax businesses less and residential properties more to attract those developments. It's why your property taxes are more on your house than one that is worth the same in Toronto. I would argue that is not the only reason why the dollar to dollar rate is higher, but Im tired of arguing. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Taxes are much higher in the suburbs than the GTA, but there are a lot of factors that contribute to this. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Taxes are much higher in the suburbs than the GTA, but there are a lot of factors that contribute to this. Two major factors. 1. Toronto taxes businesses higher than residential while it's the opposite in York Region. Not sure about Pickering 2. The reality is that it is just more expensive to provide municipal services to areas that have lower population density. The development charges on houses in places like Pickering probably should have been a lot higher the last 30 years which would have made the upfront cost of housing higher but lowered the cost of property taxes Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 So those of us that live in the suburbs, are less educated? is that an actual study, or you pull that out of thin air, because thats a really weak argument...Better talent lives downtown?? No, young talented professional people, on average, prefer the urban experience. They'd rather work at the new Google office in the redeveloped warehouse in East Liberty, Pittsburgh than in a sprawling campus in some automobile suburb. In general. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Arp and Serge aren't talking about small business park developments. In Markham there are some very large office buildings and complexes. Remember that Toronto has many different "city centers" so a large development at the 404 and 7 in Markham is in a more dense "downtown" like area compared to some suburban places in the US. Definitely and I've talked at length about the Growth Plan and the goals of intensifying the other centres. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 No, young talented professional people, on average, prefer the urban experience. They'd rather work at the new Google office in the redeveloped warehouse in East Liberty, Pittsburgh than in a sprawling campus in some automobile suburb. In general. Is this what the Urban planning books say? Because its a ludicrous generalization.. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Is this what the Urban planning books say? Because its a ludicrous generalization.. Go on. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Stop resorting to your insanely stupid textbook jab. There are no planning textbooks, for good reason. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Is this what the Urban planning books say? Because its a ludicrous generalization.. Is it? What if we restrict the discussion to "new" talent, aka new graduates. This does not represent the majority of talented people of course, but those people's decisions are more complicated, and often companies can best attract them by hiring when they're young. So for young people...I think it is a reasonable generalization to say they'd rather work "downtown." Not many recent grads dying to live/work in Pickering or Markham or even Don Mills. They want to live in the city, and downtown. 5-10 years later, with a wife and kids, they want to live in the suburbs. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Is it? What if we restrict the discussion to "new" talent, aka new graduates. This does not represent the majority of talented people of course, but those people's decisions are more complicated, and often companies can best attract them by hiring when they're young. So for young people...I think it is a reasonable generalization to say they'd rather work "downtown." Not many recent grads dying to live/work in Pickering or Markham or even Don Mills. They want to live in the city, and downtown. 5-10 years later, with a wife and kids, they want to live in the suburbs. hey I actually agree with Danny on something a lot of the tech industries don't hire old people like you Serge since you're over 30 now Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Ya lot of Pickering bashing in the thread...Lets keep it that way, keep the downtown bike riding tree huggers away..We love it out here... Zach...Ill reiterate every single one of my arguments come from real life experience..Yours comes from idealistics visions of a better society... Perfect example is the biking to work , where Arp pretty much echoed the way most probably feel... Assuming recent grads want to live in the city and downtown again is a generalization with no base of fact to it..In my experience recent grads are actually living with their parents for a longer time, before getting married..When they get married, they buy a nice size house out of downtown, one that they can afford... Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 hey I actually agree with Danny on something a lot of the tech industries don't hire old people like you Serge since you're over 30 now Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age as the article suggests, only because they cant afford to pay a decent wage Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 hey I actually agree with Danny on something a lot of the tech industries don't hire old people like you Serge since you're over 30 now Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age High-five! For what it's worth, I mostly agree with serge that wanting to live downtown after graduating is a poor decision. Ain't all its cracked up to be, and many of us waste a lot of experience, years and money thinking the city is 'cool' and suburbs are boring. Doesn't change that's what a lot of 'the best' want (a category I was not a part of, obviously). Ya lot of Pickering bashing in the thread...Lets keep it that way, keep the downtown bike riding tree huggers away..We love it out here... Zach...Ill reiterate every single one of my arguments come from real life experience..Yours comes from idealistics visions of a better society... Perfect example is the biking to work , where Arp pretty much echoed the way most probably feel... Assuming recent grads want to live in the city and downtown again is a generalization with no base of fact to it..In my experience recent grads are actually living with their parents for a longer time, before getting married..When they get married, they buy a nice size house out of downtown, one that they can afford... Zach's opinions comes from thinking and reading about experts who study and interview thousands of people. Yours come from your biased views on a few people of similar opinion, location and experience. That's fine, but there's a difference between anecdotes and science. And now you're telling Zach and I what "recent grads" do and want? Guessing if we're going to talk anecdotes, Zach and I with our hundreds of acquaintances who are also recent grads are probably in a better position to tell you what those people are doing/wanting. Also, just saying, many of the people you are involved with are those who want to buy houses. That might colour your view a little bit. It'd be like if I owned a bike store...I might overestimate how many people really love bikes... Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Is this what the Urban planning books say? Because its a ludicrous generalization.. http://qz.com/139794/inside-googles-new-1-million-square-foot-london-office-three-years-before-its-ready/ So why is Google building its new UK R&D center in some of the most expensive real-estate in the world (downtown London at the old King's Cross railyard) instead of some random suburb outside the A25 Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 http://qz.com/139794...fore-its-ready/ So why is Google building its new UK R&D center in some of the most expensive real-estate in the world (downtown London at the old King's Cross railyard) instead of some random suburb outside the A25 good article Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 High-five! For what it's worth, I mostly agree with serge that wanting to live downtown after graduating is a poor decision. Ain't all its cracked up to be, and many of us waste a lot of experience, years and money thinking the city is 'cool' and suburbs are boring. Doesn't change that's what a lot of 'the best' want (a category I was not a part of, obviously). Zach's opinions comes from thinking and reading about experts who study and interview thousands of people. Yours come from your biased views on a few people of similar opinion, location and experience. That's fine, but there's a difference between anecdotes and science. And now you're telling Zach and I what "recent grads" do and want? Guessing if we're going to talk anecdotes, Zach and I with our hundreds of acquaintances who are also recent grads are probably in a better position to tell you what those people are doing/wanting. Also, just saying, many of the people you are involved with are those who want to buy houses. That might colour your view a little bit. It'd be like if I owned a bike store...I might overestimate how many people really love bikes... again your argument is wrong and inaccurate....You have no clue what you are talking about, let alone a sensible argument to back..You have no idea who my friends and acquaintainces are, and your weak guess at my experiences is way off base...Bordering on revoltingly insulting..Ill give it a pass, as your intellectual history probably inhibits you from forming a much clearer argument.. LOL at Zach's opinions of experts who interview and study thousands of people...If you knew anything about statistics you would know that, if myself , Arp , Bob or anyone disagreeeing with you slightly, have an argument, it means that there are 100s of thousands of people like us that share the same view....they share these views because of REAL LIFE experiences, not anecdotes like you condescendly back up your conveniently misguided arguments.. its becoming beyond annoying to put up with the same arguments that my views are WRONG, MISGUIDED, UNEDUCATED , NON SCIENTIFIC...Well its the opposite I am afraid.. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 http://qz.com/139794...fore-its-ready/ So why is Google building its new UK R&D center in some of the most expensive real-estate in the world (downtown London at the old King's Cross railyard) instead of some random suburb outside the A25 Its a moot point...Google is a high tech company that needs to attract low paying geeks..Much like Facebook,Yahoo, Groupon ..All these companies have that Urban feel...My field of experience only included the Toronto situation.... Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 *****the point about intellectual history was supposed to be a joke that became a part of the argument..Actually I think Danny G is fairly a smart individual , that doesnt understand certain concepts.. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Its a moot point...Google is a high tech company that needs to attract low paying geeks..Much like Facebook,Yahoo, Groupon ..All these companies have that Urban feel...My field of experience only included the Toronto situation.... Google pays really well actually and central London is a very expensive place for their employees to live. If they were just after cheap labour they wouldn't be in London at all. They attract talent from all over the World to work for them and London and everything that it offers is a draw both for people from the UK and those who come from other places to work for them. The reality is that less young people are driving or even getting their driver's license today than when we were young and this is a trend not just in Canada and Europe but in the US as well. The higher somebody's education is the later in life they get married and the later in life they have children. Also the higher the level of education the less children people have. Young highly educated people without children are especially attracted to downtown areas just like people with kids are attracted to single family houses with a backyard and a quiet street where their kids can play road hockey. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Zach's opinions comes from thinking and reading about experts who study and interview thousands of people. Assumptions. And many big ones, not the least of all is " interview thousands" of people Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Google pays really well actually. Danny and Zach should go work for them..can they ride their bike to London? Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Serge, you seem to spend a lot of time telling others they are wrong instead of showing them. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 again your argument is wrong and inaccurate....You have no clue what you are talking about, let alone a sensible argument to back..You have no idea who my friends and acquaintainces are, and your weak guess at my experiences is way off base...Bordering on revoltingly insulting..Ill give it a pass, as your intellectual history probably inhibits you from forming a much clearer argument.. LOL at Zach's opinions of experts who interview and study thousands of people...If you knew anything about statistics you would know that, if myself , Arp , Bob or anyone disagreeeing with you slightly, have an argument, it means that there are 100s of thousands of people like us that share the same view....they share these views because of REAL LIFE experiences, not anecdotes like you condescendly back up your conveniently misguided arguments.. its becoming beyond annoying to put up with the same arguments that my views are WRONG, MISGUIDED, UNEDUCATED , NON SCIENTIFIC...Well its the opposite I am afraid.. Tell me how I'm wrong, I'm trying to have a cogent argument. You're a mortgage broker (or something similar) - so many of the people you talk to, I'm guessing, are homeowners and/or wanting to buy a house. Great! But that's only a segment of the population. And I know enough about statistics to know that your description is very much inaccurate, especially compared to actual scientific studies that control for biases like location, background, income, etc. And while you may talk to a wide variety of people, the most salient point is that their opinions will be subject to your interpretation and biases, just like any of us. I'm never even sure if you're kidding - you said they're REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES, not anecdotes. That's what an anecdote is. edit - Or at least, that was my intention of the word. I looked it up, and it seems the actual definition of anecdote suggests something that is amusing, and perhaps not true. So if that's what you thought I meant, than I apologize. My intention for the use of the word is the third definition for "anecdotal": "based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation" Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now