Off Off Topic: Cool Toronto People's Thread

[serge 904]

Question to the time arguments.

 

You argue that people are trading time in their cars to travel from the suburbs. But those same people don't have a problem with sitting, waiting for tons of time waiting for the slow and inefficient at times transit system.

 

 

[Zach6668 513]

How about the real airport. Pearson?

 

Are there good options for people without cars?

 

You can take a cab for $60 ish. And the bus options suck

 

Well, the airport rocket is pretty good, if you're going to the west end of the city (ie, it connects to the Bloor subway line). Takes a while if you need to connect elsewhere, but that's just a function of location, which is true for any mode.

 

However, it will be improved in the future. The Union-Pearson Express will offer rides direct to Union, with only 3 stops in between, but I think it'll be like $20... I'm a bit skeptical about this, and don't really consider it true public transit, as it won't be particularly affordable for everyone. Lots of people will opt to take the $2.70 token TTC ride at the expense of an hour or so of time. It will cater to the businessmen and women who come through, moreso than the rest of the city. Not that it's a bad thing, it's just not the best public transit we could have built.

 

Had Rob Ford not cancelled Transit City, we'd have an LRT line under construction to the airport right now. Instead, the Eglinton LRT is being built just to Weston/Mt. Dennis, and the airport extension is decades away.

 

 

OK, so what is with the city not allowing a friggin bridge to be built to the Island airport instead of that stupid ferry. How is the ferry in any way an improvement?

 

They're building an underwater walkway, which should be completed soon, as an alternative. The ferry will remain, though.

 

Zach said it, but I'd guess cabs save a ton on congestion, since they effectively regulate themselves. They're expensive to run, so market pressures ensure there's approximately the right amount actually around at any time. Probably doesn't seem like it, since most of us picture bumper-to-bumper NYC traffic, made up of 90% cabs, but that's just one situation, and we don't know that isn't actually a best-case scenario.

 

The biggest thing is that when you get done with it, it doesn't have to go park for 8 hours, it gets to pick up new people.

[mrdannyg 274]

Question to the time arguments.

 

You argue that people are trading time in their cars to travel from the suburbs. But those same people don't have a problem with sitting, waiting for tons of time waiting for the slow and inefficient at times transit system.

 

Well, its an overall measure of time of course. I don't think anyone would argue they'd prefer (in terms of time only) that they'd prefer to hop on two buses and a subway, with total travel+wait time of an hour, rather than waiting an hour in traffic (although subways are far more predictable than traffic, since there's no traffic jams). But yeah, if it takes you 40 minutes to get downtown because you have to walk, bus and subway, then you're only saving 35 minutes over an hour+15 drive.

 

Now, I'd personally prefer to spend an hour on the bus than an hour in my car, since I can sit back on my phone, close my eyes, not worry about traffic and save $15 per day, but those are all personal preferences. Many others have the same decision and take a car.

 

They're building an underwater walkway, which should be completed soon, as an alternative. The ferry will remain, though.

 

The biggest thing is that when you get done with it, it doesn't have to go park for 8 hours, it gets to pick up new people.

 

Glad to hear, though still don't get the big issue with a bridge. Seems like such an obvious solution that I'm missing something.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

 

 

Glad to hear, though still don't get the big issue with a bridge. Seems like such an obvious solution that I'm missing something.

 

You're missing that the David Miller, Adam Vaughan, Olivia Chow types don't want an airport there at all so they stopped the bridge

[Zach6668 513]

There was an interesting interview on the Daily Show on Tuesday, with an author and parent of a child with regressive autism. Some touching stuff.

[serge 904]

Just reading that council past the bike lane project. All this while the Gardiner situation is a mess. Workers essentially only work 9-5. The congestion in this area is unbelievable. Joe Warmington has a column today in the Sun

 

It's too slow.

[Zach6668 513]

Don't know what the bike lane trial has to do with the Gardiner.

[serge 904]

Drivers screwed in both scenarios. As usual.

 

That's the goal isn't it?

[Zach6668 513]

Lol

[Zach6668 513]

Ok, let's have a short, serious discussion.

 

Where would you suggest bike lanes go?

 

Would you prefer bikers continue to mix with vehicular traffic, slowing down the lane they ride in, constantly darting through red lights, and endangering others?

[serge 904]

Ya hilarious. But true.

 

Everything that is done creates more traffic. Gridlock. Driver outrage. How many bikers are we appeasing? So we can cut more lanes.

[Zach6668 513]

Relevant reading from the other day: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/13/a_few_bad_cyclists_shouldnt_stop_us_from_building_bike_lanes.html

[serge 904]

Bikers should be off the road. Simple. Go rude your bike in a park. Bike trail.

[mrdannyg 274]

Bikers should be off the road. Simple. Go rude your bike in a park. Bike trail.

 

I actually think a rule that prevents bikes from being on any main road or sidewalk (main road defined loosely, basically they'd only be allowed on little-used residential streets) is both intellectually honest and a better solution than some options being proposed. I don't think it's the "best" solution, but it's also not totally crazy.

 

If we were starting all over designing roads, I can't imagine anyone would propose that vehicles with a max speed of 15-20 km/h, poor visibility and no safety protection would be allowed on the same surfaces as cars.

[Zach6668 513]

Bikers should be off the road. Simple. Go rude your bike in a park. Bike trail.

 

 

"Yeah, get in your car and join me on the congested freeway!!!"

[Zach6668 513]

For another north-south link, what about University Ave?

 

The point where it's split by the boulevard could look like this, without taking away a single foot of road space previously allocated to drivers:

 

[gruven 530]

Hey, been busy, anyone got Cole's notes on the 50 pages of urban warfare arguing?

[Babying 613]

Hey, been busy, anyone got Cole's notes on the 50 pages of urban warfare arguing?

 

Zach - Bikes are good

 

Serge - Cars are good

[Zach6668 513]

Well, no.

 

Zach - we need to rebalance street uses away from only cars to increase efficiency, lessen pollution, improve safety, etc.

 

Serge - cars only, nobody else is important except drivers

[serge 904]

Zach----Go Transit, bikes and screw the cars

 

Serge---Let me drive downtown and park for cheap

[Zach6668 513]

Zach - grounded in reality with facts and trends

Serge - in some sort of dystopian fantasy land

[Zach6668 513]

This is fun.

[serge 904]

Zach...Backs up views with twitter links and wiki pages

 

Serge----Backs up views with actual real life experience

[gruven 530]

This is better than watching City Council....

[serge 904]

This is better than watching City Council....

 

Hey Chris did you hear the Habs beat Boston.?

 

And the Leafs still didnt make the playoffs...

 

More details in the Playoffs thread..