Off Topic, Kinda.....

[iBeaver 409]

Oh but we're America! We do what we want and how we want. There is no one greater. /throw up

 

 

I think most are not upset because essentially the stance of the avg American citizen does not care about anything that doesn't directly effect them personally and while this effects some it doesn't effect the vast vast vast majority. We are on a whole apathetic. Hence why our government does the things that it does. Plus I'm pretty sure we voted for this and they just stretched the rules to the point of no return.

[iBeaver 409]

And what Adam said...

[Fenxis 99]

Oh and since I admittedly could be arsed to read much about this, why ate the angriest a couple Canadiens? Is the US doting on Canada? Is Canada doing the same thing? Seems odd the Americans are meh and you guys are all bent out of shape. But again, I only know the basics.

 

I doubt Canada is doing the same thing, if for no other reasons jurisdiction. That being said I know a few people in the security line of work and none of them have a FB account -- which makes me think the agencies are trigger happy with requests for information.

 

Does seem odd to me that Americans don't care. I don't really understand it, unless a lot of you are like Adam, and had just given up any hope of privacy or your government being lawful.

 

I'm more curious/puzzled about what registers on the American care-o-meter and what doesn't. Seems like the notion of security overrides everything else.

[digitalmonkey 929]

It's not just about emails and phone calls. It's about drones, DNA samples, facial recognition capabilities, etc. It goes on and on.

 

The USG is taking away your rights and freedoms and is on its way to becoming a police state. Can they be stopped? I have my doubts, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Apathy is their best weapon.

 

http://www.policymic.com/mobile/articles/14592/a-ron-paul-supporter-and-an-ex-marine-get-questioned-by-the-fbi-here-are-4-reasons-that-america-is-turning-into-a-police-state

 

Being a Canadian is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Canada will just follow in the USA's footsteps. Besides, this isn't really about political boundaries, it's more about class structure. The US government is just a tool for the worlds richest.

 

Conspiracy theories, tinfoil hats...it all sounds so far-fetched to some. It's not.

 

The USG knows exactly what it takes to shut down a city the size of Boston.

 

 

 

 

[ajs510 122]

I'm more curious/puzzled about what registers on the American care-o-meter and what doesn't. Seems like the notion of security overrides everything else.

 

I get touchy when my actual everyday life starts getting picked at. I've always assumed I'm being watched or at least capable of being watched/tracked and I got over it a long time ago...I'm talking like pre-9/11 I had made peace with the fact that total privacy online is a fallacy. I've already redacted a couple posts I was going to make in this thread alone just because I know how easy it is to read the post, search my user name, and figure out exactly who I am. It's not paranoia, it would be so, so simple to do. I watch what I say and do on the Internet and on cell phones, they're simply not the slightest bit secure. If a hacker with a laptop and a 1-bedroom apartment operating under the fear of incarceration can post naked pictures from Scarlett Johansson's cell phone, imagine what the US government operating with unlimited resources and total impunity can do. And then realize they're doing it, all day, every day.

[mrdannyg 274]

It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't want to get myself all bent out of shape about something that has been going on for years and isn't going to change no matter how many people are upset about it and no matter how many congressmen/Senators have something to say about it. Like Steve said, the concept of online/cellular privacy basically never existed in the first place and certainly hasn't existed since 9/11 and the Patriot Act. The simple truth is that every single one of us is carrying around a microphone, camera, and GPS transmitter with us everywhere we go, and we're doing so willingly. Me getting pissy about finding out that I was right all along isn't going to stop them, ir's just going to make me upset.

 

 

And no, you're correct...I don't expect any better of them. I think the Patriot Act was somewhat well-intentioned when it was enacted, but it's since been used as the basis for the total destruction of the 4th Amendment...probably irreparably. Both parties are at fault, Bush and the Republicans enacted it, and Obama and the Democrats abused it. They're not going to stop under any circumstances.

 

It's funny how we can strongly disagree on certain specific issues, and live so oppositely, and yet at our core, I don't think there's anyone who's values/opinion/perspective I agree with more.

 

I also think your summary of Bush and Obama's roles are spot on.

 

Oh but we're America! We do what we want and how we want. There is no one greater. /throw up

 

 

I think most are not upset because essentially the stance of the avg American citizen does not care about anything that doesn't directly effect them personally and while this effects some it doesn't effect the vast vast vast majority. We are on a whole apathetic. Hence why our government does the things that it does. Plus I'm pretty sure we voted for this and they just stretched the rules to the point of no return.

 

I may be annoying about this issue, but for all I hate on people for having the opinion of "I don't do anything wrong, what do I care?", I have no problem with people thinking this way.

 

It's not just about emails and phone calls. It's about drones, DNA samples, facial recognition capabilities, etc. It goes on and on.

 

The USG is taking away your rights and freedoms and is on its way to becoming a police state. Can they be stopped? I have my doubts, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Apathy is their best weapon.

 

http://www.policymic...-a-police-state

 

Being a Canadian is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Canada will just follow in the USA's footsteps. Besides, this isn't really about political boundaries, it's more about class structure. The US government is just a tool for the worlds richest.

 

Conspiracy theories, tinfoil hats...it all sounds so far-fetched to some. It's not.

 

The USG knows exactly what it takes to shut down a city the size of Boston.

 

I'm doubly afraid being Canadian, because the U.S. has shown a willingness to do whatever the hell it wants. And here's polite ol 'Canada next door with lots of water and oil. More American (or any other country) influence in our lives is either negative or neutral, never positive. And the trend for how much influence the U.S. has over Canada over the next 5, 10, 100 years is going to be a straight trend upwards.

[ajs510 122]

It's funny how we can strongly disagree on certain specific issues, and live so oppositely, and yet at our core, I don't think there's anyone who's values/opinion/perspective I agree with more.

 

I also think your summary of Bush and Obama's roles are spot on.

 

Bro hug? <grin> I like talking policy with you too, even if we're on diametrically opposed sides of the argument it's always civil, well-informed and topical. Never personal

 

I'm always amused by all the people I know on FB who were so vocally anti-Bush and his policies who now have exactly nothing to say about Obama, who is probably worse. "He's going to close Gitmo!" Yup...5 years later, still open to new "visitors". "He won a Nobel Peace Prize!" Yup...and started more wars and drone-striked more villagers and kept us in Afghanistan long past our welcome...etc, etc, etc. I could go on and on, but I've already done that.

[mrdannyg 274]

Bro hug? <grin> I like talking policy with you too, even if we're on diametrically opposed sides of the argument it's always civil, well-informed and topical. Never personal

 

I'm always amused by all the people I know on FB who were so vocally anti-Bush and his policies who now have exactly nothing to say about Obama, who is probably worse. "He's going to close Gitmo!" Yup...5 years later, still open to new "visitors". "He won a Nobel Peace Prize!" Yup...and started more wars and drone-striked more villagers and kept us in Afghanistan long past our welcome...etc, etc, etc. I could go on and on, but I've already done that.

 

To be honest, Obama's tenure scares the crap out of me. I don't even see a 'left' any more. There's just 'right' and 'far right'. The only thing positive he's done is push the minority of the population who take it as a point of pride to be 'right' so far to the 'right' that they're basically absurd at this point, totally out of touch with the rest of the world. The other side of that, of course, is that the U.S. as a whole, seemingly on the verge of joining the rest of the progressive world just a few years ago, is less progressive than even a pessimist would've considered.

 

I do sometimes get my back up when you're FB pro-gun posts leak into other 'right' issues, but I know the reasons you are pro-gun, and I don't disagree with them. I just have to remember not to read your comments - can't tell how many times I have typed out something very angry to your dad, then thought better of it

 

That was my long way of saying that I agree - I would've been as militantly pro-Obama as anyone 5 years ago, and now...well now, I don't see any option. When people are referring to Rand Paul as the only solution 'left' of Obama, well, you don't have any good options.

[ajs510 122]

Heh, my Dad is so far right he basically only has one toe hanging onto the edge at this point. He and Ted Nugent would probably get along very well if they met. It would be utterly pointless to argue with him, he wouldn't find any merit in anything you said no matter how well articulated it was. There is literally no changing his mind about any political issue...Democrats are evil Communists out to destroy the world and anyone who disagrees is stupid.

 

I posted this picture once because it pretty perfectly describes me and my Libertarian leanings.

 

 

 

Left versus Right politics is really what's destroying the United States...it's almost foolish to even call them "United" anymore. National politics has nothing to do with the actual issues anymore, it has to do with seizing power and then keeping it. It's not about doing what's right, it's about doing what a votable majority will believe is right on election day. So many people gravitate towards the middle that it's really very sad a national candidate hasn't been able to take advantage of that fact yet and bring about some real positive and healing change. Rand Paul is really the only person I'm currently aware of that I would feel good about voting for in 2016...and I'm terrified by my belief that Hillary will win it in a walk and make Obama look like a declawed housecat with her reign.

[mrdannyg 274]

Heh, my Dad is so far right he basically only has one toe hanging onto the edge at this point. He and Ted Nugent would probably get along very well if they met. It would be utterly pointless to argue with him, he wouldn't find any merit in anything you said no matter how well articulated it was. There is literally no changing his mind about any political issue...Democrats are evil Communists out to destroy the world and anyone who disagrees is stupid.

 

I posted this picture once because it pretty perfectly describes me and my Libertarian leanings.

 

 

 

Left versus Right politics is really what's destroying the United States...it's almost foolish to even call them "United" anymore. National politics has nothing to do with the actual issues anymore, it has to do with seizing power and then keeping it. It's not about doing what's right, it's about doing what a votable majority will believe is right on election day. So many people gravitate towards the middle that it's really very sad a national candidate hasn't been able to take advantage of that fact yet and bring about some real positive and healing change. Rand Paul is really the only person I'm currently aware of that I would feel good about voting for in 2016...and I'm terrified by my belief that Hillary will win it in a walk and make Obama look like a declawed housecat with her reign.

 

Man, I just agree the hell out of all of that.

 

There's zero chance Hillary wins it. Bet all your money on the Conservatives winning. Anyone on the left is going to be too depressed over Obama to get out and vote, and you know the right is going to jump at the chance to get their own guy in with all the momentum in their favour. Some will argue that Hillary will have a chance because of the female vote, but I just don't see the enormous majority of women that would be necessary to get her in wanting her as the first female prez.

 

Policy-wise, what do you think Hillary would be like? Farther right than Obama? Or just a militant left? Really, Obama is the Libertarian's worst nightmare - if we're using your chart above, he's the far left and far right, with nothing in the middle.

[ajs510 122]

The GOP only has a chance if they nominate the correct candidate...and they still don't seem to have learned the lesson that nobody wants to elect a hoary old rich white guy anymore. Not even the white guys. If they get behind Rand Paul (which I doubt they will, even if he's their best chance at securing the big seat) and get him a strong running mate that connects with voters, then maybe there's a shot. I think you're underestimating just how beloved Hillary is with the Left...it will take a very, very strong GOP candidate to beat her. You're also underestimating the female vote...it's enormous and it's 80% pro-Hillary. It was huge enough in 2008 to get Sarah Palin on the ticket (who I'm incredibly NOT a fan of) and it's bigger now...females delivered the White House for Obama in both elections.

 

I don't see Hillary being further right, I think she'd probably be further left than Obama. I can't see how the economy can survive 12 years of escalating debt and increased social programs that we can't reasonably afford...really believe we're in a heap of trouble already and a fiscal conservative in the White House ASAP is the only thing that has a chance at righting the ship. To be honest, I don't know how the economy is surviving now...it's such a house of cards Ponzi scheme that it's only a matter of time before the whole thing crashes and takes Social Security with it.

 

I can't see Paul Ryan as being electable if he didn't get it done for Romney, too much of the same show to really make an impact. I like some of his politics though...mostly on the financial side of things. If a strong-GOP candidate publicly relaxed on some of the social issues (abortion, gay rights, etc) while staying strong on the fiscal and constitutional issues, they'd win in a cakewalk. So far every GOP star has been too afraid of losing the religious votes to back away from the party line of "abortion bad, gays bad" which is so completely out of touch with reality for practically any voter under 40.

[serge 904]

lots of politics in here

[ajs510 122]

I think Paul Ryan would really do the most good as Speaker of the House...get his strict fiscal politics working on the budget issues in a big way in the House. I wouldn't be shocked if he isn't in Congress a lot longer though, Wisconsin is leaning Democrat as evidenced in the Presidential election.

[ajs510 122]

lots of politics in here

 

There hasn't been a hockey game for four days, I'll get back with the program after tonight.

[iBeaver 409]

It's not just about emails and phone calls. It's about drones, DNA samples, facial recognition capabilities, etc. It goes on and on.

 

The USG is taking away your rights and freedoms and is on its way to becoming a police state. Can they be stopped? I have my doubts, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Apathy is their best weapon.

 

http://www.policymic.com/mobile/articles/14592/a-ron-paul-supporter-and-an-ex-marine-get-questioned-by-the-fbi-here-are-4-reasons-that-america-is-turning-into-a-police-state

 

Being a Canadian is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Canada will just follow in the USA's footsteps. Besides, this isn't really about political boundaries, it's more about class structure. The US government is just a tool for the worlds richest.

 

Conspiracy theories, tinfoil hats...it all sounds so far-fetched to some. It's not.

 

The USG knows exactly what it takes to shut down a city the size of Boston.

 

 

What freedoms am I losing? I hate that phrase. People use it a little too much. Give me specifics. What can I do today that I will not be able to do tomorrow now that the most obvious has now been confirmed. No disrespect and bit trying to be a dick but you can't believe everything Anon says. Half of them are still going through puberty

[Whiskers 680]

Why do you guys even have an off-topic thread?

 

Don't want to mix it up with the seven non-hockey posters left on here?

[FCP Bob 1,314]

I think Paul Ryan would really do the most good as Speaker of the House...get his strict fiscal politics working on the budget issues in a big way in the House. I wouldn't be shocked if he isn't in Congress a lot longer though, Wisconsin is leaning Democrat as evidenced in the Presidential election.

 

LOL at Paul Ryan knowing anything about Economics. He's a fraud and his so called "budget" is pure fiction and would balloon the deficit while massively shifting wealth to the wealthiest Americans.

 

I'm sorry but as much as I think the left wing NPD in Canada has ideas that would destroy Canada I also think the Republicans and people like Paul Ryan also have zero understanding about how Macro Economics actually work. The difference to a certain extent is that Canadian lefties actually believe that their ideas will work where a lot of the Republicans don't give a shit but it's what their paymasters want.

 

If you want to compare the political spectrum in Canada and the US there is no equivalent in Canada to the Republican Party, they are to the right of everybody in the World these days pretty much. The Conservatives in Canada would be middle of the road Democrats while the Canadian Liberals would be the left wing of the Democratic Party and the US has nothing close to the Socialist NDPers.

[ajs510 122]

Why do you guys even have an off-topic thread?

 

Don't want to mix it up with the seven non-hockey posters left on here?

 

Are there seven left?

[ajs510 122]

LOL at Paul Ryan knowing anything about Economics. He's a fraud and his so called "budget" is pure fiction and would balloon the deficit while massively shifting wealth to the wealthiest Americans.

 

You're the last person I'm going to argue economics with, if you say he's wrong I believe you.

[Zach6668 513]

I have an economics degree and I wouldn't argue with Bob, haha.

[FCP Bob 1,314]

You're the last person I'm going to argue economics with, if you say he's wrong I believe you.

 

Here's a pretty good take on the Ryan Budget.

 

http://swampland.tim...wrong-solution/

 

I could also link to a bunch of stuff from people like Paul Krugman but he's so polarizing that often his ideas are lost by readers who can't get past their disdain for him.

[ajs510 122]

Is it wrong to believe that we could fix a whole lot of problems by outlawing the medical insurance industry entirely and letting the free market dictate the price of health care? If health care was reasonably affordable in the first place, there would be virtually no need for Medicare.

[Zach6668 513]

I like Krugman. I'm not familiar with a lot of his work, but I just remember reading some of his stuff back in school. He's on the Daily Show every once in a while too.

[FCP Bob 1,314]

Is it wrong to believe that we could fix a whole lot of problems by outlawing the medical insurance industry entirely and letting the free market dictate the price of health care? If health care was reasonably affordable in the first place, there would be virtually no need for Medicare.

 

The economics of healthcare is a really complicated topic.

 

One thing that people need to understand is that the free market doesn't always work and there are certain "markets" with health care being broadly one of them that a pure free market is going to be a failure.

 

Here's some light reading on the topic. This is an online course from a UK University aimed at both Economics students and lay people interested in the topic.

 

The Economics of Healthcare

[Zach6668 513]

Is it wrong to believe that we could fix a whole lot of problems by outlawing the medical insurance industry entirely and letting the free market dictate the price of health care? If health care was reasonably affordable in the first place, there would be virtually no need for Medicare.

 

How would getting rid of insurance lead to affordable surgery?