mrdannyg 274 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 there has never been a player that received 100% of the vote for Hall of fame on the first ballot in baseball. How could anyone vote against Derek Jeter? Same way they didn't vote for Greg Maddux, or any of the other players that were better than Jeter. If Jeter is the first player to get 100% (a very real possibility, which is why I'm so cranky about it now that you mentioned it), it is just further proof that HHOF voters, as a collective, are morons. In just over 10,000 at-bats, Tim Raines accumulated over 66 WAR. In 12,500 at-bats, Derek Jeter has accumulated 73.5 WAR. Based on a 3-year peak and 5-year peak, Raines was better. If you ignore the postseason (a huge if), you could make the argumen that Raines has as strong a HOF argument as Jeter, and yet Raines isn't even in, and Jeter might get 100% of the vote. Now, Jeter is a sure-fire hall-of-famer, based on his actual numbers (which were amazing until the last few years), and his postseason accomplishments absolutely should be considered, as even though they are largely a product of opportunity, he has also been excellent when presented with the opportunity (career 121 wrc+ in postseason and most of those years were before his defense took a crap). Basically what I'm saying is, sportswriters should be only a *little* more inclined to vote for Jeter than Raines, and yet Raines won't get in while old white guys will be lined up around the block to caress Jeter's first-ballot plaque. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Everytime I see that WAR stat, it reminds me of Corsi and I hate it.. Its not just about stats, he is a classy superstar that has won many championships. You are smoking crack if you try to convince me that Raines had a better career than Jeter.. its not all about WAR Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Everytime I see that WAR stat, it reminds me of Corsi and I hate it.. Its not just about stats, he is a classy superstar that has won many championships. You are smoking crack if you try to convince me that Raines had a better career than Jeter.. its not all about WAR Jeter definitely has some benefits that aren't captured by WAR. For one, postseason stats aren't included in the career WAR stats, and that is enormous in Jeter's case. If he'd had a worse career than Raines, that would still put him over the top in the minds of statheads and sportswriters alike. It's also not easy playing under pressure and in the spotlight like Jeter has, though it can't be ignored that it's similarly hard to put up good numbers when your teammates suck. Jeter is a great example of the times it isn't all about WAR. But he's also an example of how sometimes you need to put down the headlines and actually look at the stats. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 On the site I bet on both the Leafs and Raptors are 40-1 to win their respective championship. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 On the site I bet on both the Leafs and Raptors are 40-1 to win their respective championship. Raptors are probably the 3rd best team in the East after Cleveland and Chicago That makes them a huge long shot to actually win the Championship Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Raptors are probably the 3rd best team in the East after Cleveland and Chicago That makes them a huge long shot to actually win the Championship Cleveland is a huge favourite at only +250. No trade in hockey or UFA signing can obviously make one team that much better. I think the NHL futures are a better bet IMO. Long shots come in much more frequently in NHL. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 There's something about Jeter that always rubbed me the wrong way...besides the Yankees uniform, that is. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 There's something about Jeter that always rubbed me the wrong way...besides the Yankees uniform, that is. See, I tried to hate him. Don't like the yankees, don't like their stars. But damn... he just comes to play. He's low key, but scores the hottest babes in the world. Virtually NOBODY has anything bad to say about him, and in sports stars that's almost non-existent. I appreciate him. He's one of a kind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 See, I tried to hate him. Don't like the yankees, don't like their stars. But damn... he just comes to play. He's low key, but scores the hottest babes in the world. Virtually NOBODY has anything bad to say about him, and in sports stars that's almost non-existent. I appreciate him. He's one of a kind. This is about Mariah Carey isn't it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pezeveng 207 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 there has never been a player that received 100% of the vote for Hall of fame on the first ballot in baseball. How could anyone vote against Derek Jeter? Mariano Rivera imho was more important to the yankees than any other player. I had to look up his stats and they are insane. Especially in the playoffs. 8-1 record .070 era 141 innings only 11 earned runs 2 homers allowed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 They've come up with a cool app for Canada's Smartest Person. Will let you play along live during the show, but also do quizzes and whatnot on a daily basis. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 They've come up with a cool app for Canada's Smartest Person. Will let you play along live during the show, but also do quizzes and whatnot on a daily basis. It would be pretty cool if you won..I know you cant say.. Chris T , Canada's smartest person (except when coming to AHL team picking) Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Wow Derek Jeter. Talk about dramatic end. Walk off winning hit in last at bat in New York. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 See, I tried to hate him. Don't like the yankees, don't like their stars. But damn... he just comes to play. He's low key, but scores the hottest babes in the world. Virtually NOBODY has anything bad to say about him, and in sports stars that's almost non-existent. I appreciate him. He's one of a kind. He never says anything useful. He was made a symbol and he did nothing to dissuade it, but also not nearly enough to be given the title. He was a great player for a long time, and he played hard and did all the right things (except for when he refused to move from SS when they traded for A-Rod, even though A-Rod was a much superior defensive player at the time). If he was anything but the SS for the Yankees when they had a good team, he'd get 10% of the press. Also, he's been a below-average, and maybe harmful player for the last couple years, so if he was really some super-human captain, maybe he'd be willing to do something other players don't. In 2013, when he played 17 games and was worth -0.6 WAR, he was the highest-paid shortstop in the MLB. That's not really a point against him, just a note that if most players were single-handedly responsible for 20% of an average team's payroll, and were hurt all year and put up negative numbers when he did play, then came back for a retirement tour that saw him hurt his team more than he helped them on their way to finishing out of the playoffs...they wouldn't be getting quite the lovefest he was! Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Ever heard the term nobodies perfect? Stop nitpicking, it seems silly to me to be so negative about a player who was great, for one team his whole career and didn't harm anyone and acted with class, but had some warts in your analysis. This is like telling someone who just won the Boston Marathon that it wasn't that big of a deal because he stumbled at two points during the race. Honestly, you sound like you're trying way too hard to be the guy who knows better than the rest of the world. Negativity shouldn't always be the default stance of analysis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Ever heard the term nobodies perfect? Stop nitpicking, it seems silly to me to be so negative about a player who was great, for one team his whole career and didn't harm anyone and acted with class, but had some warts in your analysis. This is like telling someone who just won the Boston Marathon that it wasn't that big of a deal because he stumbled at two points during the race. Honestly, you sound like you're trying way too hard to be the guy who knows better than the rest of the world. Negativity shouldn't always be the default stance of analysis. Bang on. He quotes 2013 numbers of a player who was 39. The man is one of the greatest baseball players to play the game. Period. For a lot more reasons than his WAR at the end of his career. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Ever heard the term nobodies perfect? Stop nitpicking, it seems silly to me to be so negative about a player who was great, for one team his whole career and didn't harm anyone and acted with class, but had some warts in your analysis. This is like telling someone who just won the Boston Marathon that it wasn't that big of a deal because he stumbled at two points during the race. Honestly, you sound like you're trying way too hard to be the guy who knows better than the rest of the world. Negativity shouldn't always be the default stance of analysis. Bang on. He quotes 2013 numbers of a player who was 39. The man is one of the greatest baseball players to play the game. Period. For a lot more reasons than his WAR at the end of his career. He was a fantastic player. But you both make statements that are the reason I point out the negatives. Arp - your comparison was to the guy who won the Boston Marathon. Serge - you say he is "one of the greatest baseball players to play the game." He was a great baseball player. One of the best SS of our generation. He gets extra points for playing his whole life with one team...but not really, considering that team was also the highest-paying team and he was always a guaranteed starter at his position of choice. He most likely never beat his wife, took drugs, assaulted a child or commited vehicular manslaughter. Considering that if he even looks the wrong way it gets in 26 newspapers and an hour-long segment on ESPN, that is impressive. I don't like to be negative, but when we're talking about a great player as if he is one of the best of all-time, just because he's played for the yankees and is one of the greatest media personalities of our time, then I feel the need to be negative. We can look at what an incredible player he was without exaggerating things. When breathless media coverage creeps into our analysis, we should try to ignore it, and I think it is too much a part of Jeter's legacy. Jeter was among the top 3 shortstops to play in the last 20 years, and maybe the best full-time shortstop over that period. He also played on a lot of playoff teams (5-time World Series champion), and generally played well in the playoffs. He was the second-highest paid player (after AROD) over that span, but he was always impressive under pressure, and he was under more pressure than just about anyone else, justified or not. He probably didn't deserve to be on 14 all-star teams and definitely didn't deserve 5 gold gloves, but he was consistently among the top 5 players at his position for 15 years. Is that positive enough? Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 You have your opinion, I have mine. All I saw was you pointing out the 5-10% of someone's wrongs, when they are 90-95% right. Is he the greatest ever? No. SO WHAT? I cant enjoy a player without making sure I know what his faults are? I think you're just sensitive to all the media attention he's getting, and you like to consider yourself a baseball expert (which I think you are) and so feel the need to point out some of the things that believe it or not, we know. I know he isn't the best of all time, but when you are talking about subjective things about sports, why belittle great players? Do I think he deserves every accoloade he gets? Of course not, nearly no one does! But if you cannot appreciate the great moments he had as a baseball fan, not to mention the ending last night, without bringing up his WAR and how he played when he was 38, and how he was great, but he probably didnt deserve every gold glove, just like 3/5......well then its just sad. Its the stupidest thing amongst sports fans, to pick on the greats and show they aren't THAT great. Save your energy for something more worthwhile, IMHO. Like I said, you have your opinion, I have mine. I like that mine has me erring on the side of positivity. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 He's the greatest of all time at life in my eyes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Sad that Jeter can't find a soul mate and has to move from woman to woman searching for true love. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Sad that Jeter can't find a soul mate and has to move from woman to woman searching for true love. lol. Am I the only one who feels like no way Mariah could handle LF and should be DH'ing? Chris? Didnt know who Hannah Davis was, glad I had to google that name. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Obviously Mariah Carey had someone play LF for her while she diva'd it up on the sidelines. Also, Jeter is obviously a manwhore...which is probably why there's a lot of bro-love for him. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Impressive list. He dated Mariah Carey when she was hot. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Impressive list. He dated Mariah Carey when she was hot. I asked Mariah Carey out for dinner when she was dating Jeter. True story. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 I asked Mariah Carey out for dinner when she was dating Jeter. True story. Where did you end up taking her? Link to post Share on other sites
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