A H L Discussion

[digitalmonkey 929]

Great. Can we just make it a min. of 1 game then?

 

Why?

[digitalmonkey 929]

No, that's completely incorrect.

 

We're basing it on pool points PER GAME when in the lineup. How does that account for fewer AHL games for certain teams?

 

And regardless, one season where the Pens play 30 doesn't mean they'll only play 30 AHL games the next season.

 

I was referring specifically to Crosby who is in the lineup whenever he's available.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I agree with that, but would rather use NHL games, not AHL games. Sure we play 75ish games in a regular year, but there are about 180 days in a regular NHL season, NHL teams play on fewer than half of those, so in general, the average MAX number of games an AHL player could play in a regular season is about 35-40. Whereas we could double the sample size using a player's full NHL season. You'd then need to set a minimum like 25 NHL games played or something along those lines. This doesn't allow for "team management", as Dale put it, however. I tend to think that's a bizarre concept anyways, as more often than not it leads people to playing sub-optimal lineups because they want to get a certain guy in for a game, or don't want to mess with someone's PPG, etc.

 

In another pool, we use total points which obviously doesn't use the average, but it does give a lower ranking to players who were injured, which I think is ok. You get hurt by not having them in your lineup, but you can sign them cheaper if it's a contract year, to balance it out. It doesn't take into account any sort of differences between teams game night days, and I'm fine with that. That gets sorted out in the auction, for people who pay attention to that kind of thing, and in the decision whether or not to re-sign the player.

 

So a scenario where I choose to dress Brendan Smith over someone like Sergei Gonchar (even though I'm 3rd overall) so I can get Smith 10 AHL games is bizarre because my lineup is sub-optimal?

[digitalmonkey 929]

Using Crosby as the example again:

 

Using AHL games or NHL games wouldn't make much of a difference. His AHL PPG is 1.00 while his NHL PPG is 1.04.

[Zach6668 513]

So a scenario where I choose to dress Brendan Smith over someone like Sergei Gonchar (even though I'm 3rd overall) so I can get Smith 10 AHL games is bizarre because my lineup is sub-optimal?

 

Yes, I find that bizarre.

 

Using Crosby as the example again:

 

Using AHL games or NHL games wouldn't make much of a difference. His AHL PPG is 1.00 while his NHL PPG is 1.04.

 

Crosby (and the other handful of guys who are automatically your #1 player) are outliers in this discussion.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Why?

 

Why no minimum GP?

 

Cause why limit "team management".

[digitalmonkey 929]

Why no minimum GP?

 

Cause why limit "team management".

 

Ignoring goalies, I have the following free agents on my team:

 

Sergei Gonchar

TJ Brodie

Tom Gilbert

Matt Niskanen

Brenden Dillon

Brendan Smith

Matt Irwin

Steve Bernier

Ryan Smyth

Kevin Porter

Marian Hossa

Marian Gaborik

Guillaume Latendresse

Jeremy Welsh

Brian Flynn

Ryan Garbutt

 

The ones in bold are the players I have been tracking. I was also tracking Dan Hamhuis until I traded him.

 

Brendan Smith played his 10th game of the AHL season last night...0.5 points...0.050 ppg

Tom Gilbert has played 12 AHL games...1.5 points...0.125 ppg

I have TJ Brodie at 11 games, but the website has him at 10 games...I'll have to doublecheck this.

Matt Niskanen is currently at 6 games played with 2 points for 0.333 ppg. I have him slotted in for 4 more lineups, but depending on what he does in the next few games I'll have to decide whether I want him to play 10 games or whether I'll take the 1 year/10% raise hit.

Brenden Dillon has only been in 3 AHL lineups and I resolved sometime ago to sign him for 1 year at $0.50 next year.

 

This is part of what I consider team management. I don't see how not having a minimum GP requirement would result in more team management. I think it would actually result in less.

 

The way it is now allows GMs to have more of a say in their team rather than just leaving it up to NHL circumstance.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I agree with that, but would rather use NHL games, not AHL games. Sure we play 75ish games in a regular year, but there are about 180 days in a regular NHL season, NHL teams play on fewer than half of those, so in general, the average MAX number of games an AHL player could play in a regular season is about 35-40. Whereas we could double the sample size using a player's full NHL season. You'd then need to set a minimum like 25 NHL games played or something along those lines. This doesn't allow for "team management", as Dale put it, however. I tend to think that's a bizarre concept anyways, as more often than not it leads people to playing sub-optimal lineups because they want to get a certain guy in for a game, or don't want to mess with someone's PPG, etc.

 

In another pool, we use total points which obviously doesn't use the average, but it does give a lower ranking to players who were injured, which I think is ok. You get hurt by not having them in your lineup, but you can sign them cheaper if it's a contract year, to balance it out. It doesn't take into account any sort of differences between teams game night days, and I'm fine with that. That gets sorted out in the auction, for people who pay attention to that kind of thing, and in the decision whether or not to re-sign the player.

 

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/_ahl/aug2012/AHL-2011-12-Final-Forward-Stats-and-Rankings.htm

[Zach6668 513]

Ok, so the average max is around 45? My point stands.

[Zach6668 513]

Or, more importantly, maybe, the average GP by the players with 10 or more games was 32.82 gp last year.

 

I'd much rather take their PPG average over upto 82 gp, with a minimum of say, 25 NHL games to qualify, or something more along those lines.

 

I'm not arguing the AHL change or anything, I'm just describing what I think would be a better way to do things. Note this isn't even how we do things in the FCHL. I'm 50/50 between this method, and theirs.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I like it better that GMs have some way of influencing the salaries of their players rather than leaving it completely up to the actual NHL results.

[Zach6668 513]

I mean, I don't really know how much influence we really have. We can try to target a guy to a certain tier or something, but it still comes down to how he plays on the ice. Like, you've probably clinched a playoff spot already, say one of your top guys has been mediocre on game nights, and is sitting in tier 2 or even tier 3 when he should realistically be tier 1 or tier 2 respectively. Are you going to bench him the rest of the way to keep him in that tier? Even that doesn't guarantee it, of course, as you're relying on other guys in the league, and whatever. Would you do this? I dislike that it gives you incentive to submit a sub-optimal lineup.

 

On the other hand, I see where you try to get a guy 10 games. And you can spread the games around between similar caliber players, for sure.

[Zach6668 513]

Going to give some kids a shot tonight.

 

Beau Bennett (farm) and Ondrej Palat will be making their AHL debuts.

[serge 904]

Manipulating salaries by sitting eligible players is worse than a team losing on purpose

[Zach6668 513]

Both the guys I mentioned are in my top 8 forwards, fwiw, who are, except for Grabner, Sutter, and Cooke, all interchangeable.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Manipulating salaries by sitting eligible players is worse than a team losing on purpose

 

Why?

[Zach6668 513]

ooooh, I'm playing Arpy.

[Zach6668 513]

So, here's a real world example of why I think we've swung the pendulum way too far with the rule changes a couple of years ago.

 

Alex Burmistrov - drafted at $2.50, because we jacked up draft salaries.

 

Forced up to the NHL after scoring 33.5 AHL points in 150 NHL games over 2 seasons. He's not a very useful AHL player with a career 0.223 pool PPG entering this season.

 

This season, he has 5 AHL points in 24 NHL games (22 AHL appearances). He'll finish tier 3, which means he'll be signable to a contract of $3/$3/$3.

 

$3 a year for a player whose numbers would be (slightly above) average for a DEFENSEMAN.

 

Like, I would take one or two of these changes alone, but all of them, once combined, the effects are exponential, and brutal.

 

I'm ok with him being forced up to the main team, he had played 150 NHL games. Sure.

 

I'm ok with jacking up draft salaries a little, sure.

 

I guess the worst part here, is he has to take a pay raise for being the ~175th best forward in the league? That's crazy. And combine with his already high draft salary, we're compounding things way too much. IMO.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I think you're using the old tier system. Things may actually be worse.

 

Here's the new tier system that we used for this season:

 

http://www.alternati...opic.php?t=7674

 

 

I just checked...you're right that he would be $3.00, $3.00, $3.00...but it's actually tier 4 (the best tier).

[serge 904]

 

 

Why?

 

If you are sitting a top end player to manipulate contracts, you aren't putting best lineup in. ( you not you but collective you)

[Zach6668 513]

I think you're using the old tier system. Things may actually be worse.

 

Here's the new tier system that we used for this season:

 

http://www.alternati...opic.php?t=7674

 

hahahahahahahaha yup, I sure am. Shame on me for using the Rules link on the website. lol.

[digitalmonkey 929]

If you are sitting a top end player to manipulate contracts, you aren't putting best lineup in. ( you not you but collective you)

 

Oh ok....It's only acceptable when trying to get a better draft pick. Got it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I was going for an Arp post. Good?

[Zach6668 513]

Is the min salary raise just for year 1, or is it every season?

[digitalmonkey 929]

Is the min salary raise just for year 1, or is it every season?

 

Just for the first year.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

ooooh, I'm playing Arpy.

 

really appreciate you coming out of your tank cocoon for this matchup, picking up free agents and calling up farm players just in time for your game against me.