France Bans Burqa

[Roll the Bones 74]

another problem is that many of the women that are enslaved live in fear of speaking out, for fear of being beaten, or abandoned and homeless, etc. Anyway, maybe we just need to write the law so it doesn't specifically target the Burqa, and base it on a health or mental health issue.We value facial recognition and face-to-face interaction and any clothing that is worn on a systematic and continuous basis by concealing the facial area with the intent to deny those inherant rights of our citizens is deemed to be damaging to both the individual whether imposed or self-imposed and harmful to society as a whole on the basis of health and security and palinisms and other stuff.

[Balloon guy 158]

another problem is that many of the women that are enslaved live in fear of speaking out, for fear of being beaten, or abandoned and homeless, etc. Anyway, maybe we just need to write the law so it doesn't specifically target the Burqa, and base it on a health or mental health issue.We value facial recognition and face-to-face interaction and any clothing that is worn on a systematic and continuous basis by concealing the facial area with the intent to deny those inherant rights of our citizens is deemed to be damaging to both the individual whether imposed or self-imposed and harmful to society as a whole on the basis of health and security and palinisms and other stuff.

I agree, passing a law supporting the ability of the government to identify all of us at all times is a great way to backdoor shoving our beliefs down the muslims throats.

[Roll the Bones 74]

I agree, passing a law supporting the ability of the government to identify all of us at all times is a great way to backdoor shoving our beliefs down the muslims throats.

sweet, we finally agree on something!

[Balloon guy 158]

sweet, we finally agree on something!

Don't forget Rush and Neil Peart being the greatest drummer ever.

[Don Giovanni 0]

I'm not sure why it's a surprise that France would do this. This is a natural progression of the nanny state. If they have a say in your medicine, in your music, in your TV, in your food, in your language, in your retirement, of course they will also want a say in your clothes.

this isnt simply an issue of the government wanting to outlaw certain fashions because the government wants to control things cause thats just what they do. i agree with you that nanny states are the problem, but for more precise reasons. this is cultural relativism, invariably created in nanny states, approaching its endgame.we dont need to ban burkas in the US because we make immigrants submit to our culture and system of law just like everyone else is. not so in france. the funny thing is that all of the miseducated idiots in the US who will criticize this the most want desperately for us to move closer to the french and european model of society.

[hblask 1]

No joke, when I picked up Legedu Naanee in several fantasy football leagues early this week I thought of hblask.

One of the teams in the league I'm in is called "Flacco Seagulls". I think "Naanee State" would be better. I may have to see if I can get him....

[timwakefield 68]

Let's just be clear that there is no way a law like this would pass in the US. France has a different legal system and a different cultural situation compared with the US. I think it's a big source of confusion in this discussion. Are we asking: is it legal for France to pass such a law? (yes) Should we pass a law like this? (no) Should France have passed this law? (hard to answer)

What surprised me was how much support there is for is. 82% of Frenchies are for it. I don't see why there's a difference though between whether we or France should pass a law like this, it just happens that they can and we can't. Our system of government is quite probably better overall because we can't pass laws like that (at least not without calling it something other than it is), but as far as the question of should, I don't see why that differs since we both have multinational citizens, religions, races, etc. I think it's a good law probably, and it's too bad it can't be done here. What is the purpose of a burqa even? I thought it was because men are such awful creatures that if they catch a little glimpse of that shoulder they'll rape you like there's no tomorrow, and then everybody else will probably rape you too cuz they rapin errrbody out here. Or does the burqa have some other, slightly less idiotic reason for existing?

We should not allow human sacrifices, ritual genital mutilation, and the like to go on simply because they are someone's religion.

Wait, but that's precisely what male circumcision is.

It is funny to me that when France disproves of the US, some people are so worried of our standing in the world community, yet France has no qualms doing whatever it wants.Guess we are back to freedom fries?

The only reason anybody dislikes the French is because they're snooty, but I gotta tell you that there are some really cool French people. Sexy women too, that's no joke. I mean, the Nazis stormed all through Poland and a whole bunch of other places too like it wadn't no thang, I dunno why only France gets blamed for being wimps. They basically starred in WWI, and had almost 2 million military deaths. Also that whole thing where they cut off all their leaders' heads. That was kind of hardcore. Just saying...(also they have amazing food and art).

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I think it's a good law probably, and it's too bad it can't be done here. What is the purpose of a burqa even? I thought it was because men are such awful creatures that if they catch a little glimpse of that shoulder they'll rape you like there's no tomorrow, and then everybody else will probably rape you too cuz they rapin errrbody out here. Or does the burqa have some other, slightly less idiotic reason for existing?

Do you know what else I don't understand? Yarmulkes. I mean, if you're head's cold, wear a hat. But this whole "covering one's head in God's presence" thing seems silly to me. We should ban those too.

[ShakeZuma 585]

I'm not getting into this argument, but just saw this article profiling some of the issues resulting from the religion of peace.edit: ok, maybe I'll get in a little. now I'm all for freedom of religion, but in line with what vb's been arguing, I like to look at it from a statistical standpoint. at what point do we start to say, "you know, a lot of these people want to kill other people for pretty ridiculous reasons"? at some point (>10%?) you have to start thinking that there maybe a central link to people being fuckall crazy. I mean, if any cartoonist should be killed it should be that ass clown bil keane.edit 2: I instantly regret posting this and getting involved in this conversation. I hate myself and request a muslim to kill me for being an infidel.

[timwakefield 68]

Do you know what else I don't understand? Yarmulkes. I mean, if you're head's cold, wear a hat. But this whole "covering one's head in God's presence" thing seems silly to me. We should ban those too.

Well that's not a fair example, because a yarmulke is a little hat. Everybody wears hats, and hijabs are certainly allowed. A burqa is similar to a yarmulke in that it's a type of clothing worn by people of specific religions for specific reasons. The similarity ends there. Are you saying we should allow any type of clothing that isn't physically dangerous? Also I didn't say we should ban it, I said it's too bad we can't. A woman in a burqa walks into a bank. [Drumroll]. Seriously though, she can't, can she? Any bank I've ever heard of will totally flip their shit if somebody in a mask strolls in. Oh wait I guess that isn't ever a problem because, along with wearing burqas, they are of course forbidden to work or go to school or interact with men who are not their husband. But it's religious, so it's ok?

[timwakefield 68]

"In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause in a speech at the Chateau of Versailles southwest of Paris."The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement—I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic."

[Balloon guy 158]

"In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause in a speech at the Chateau of Versailles southwest of Paris."The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement—I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic."

Interesting that the S&M neck collars were not added to that bill.So it's not really about 'signs of debasement'.I have a friend who did the 100th anniversary of Saudi Arabia celebration ( 1,000 3' balloon release ) and he had invited me to help ( then Clinton bombed the aspirin factory and the word was handed down to minimize any Americans in this event and I got asked not to come ( interestingly my brother-in-law was the head of intelligence for the Navy in Bahrain and sent the list of target packages and the Clinton WH picked this specific target( I asked him about later)))What were we talking about?Oh yea...anyway he told me about the mall in Riyhad that had two levels, the top one for men, the bottom one with a walled entrance for women. This way they could shop because no male was allowed in the lower levels for any reason.So women got an entire women only mall..don't tell me women don't run things even when being subjegated...

[vbnautilus 48]

Are you saying we should allow any type of clothing that isn't physically dangerous?

Burqas are unhealthy. There are a couple studies showing that they lead to vitamin D deficiency.http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/...R56610220070625Plus, major tripping hazard.

[Balloon guy 158]

Burqas are unhealthy. There are a couple studies showing that they lead to vitamin D deficiency.http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/...R56610220070625Plus, major tripping hazard.

Goat meat is very high in D you racist.

[timwakefield 68]

VB you totally glossed over the 'Ritual genital mutilation for religious purposes is wrong!' vs 'male circumcision' fallacy. I think it's actually an illustration of how religious and cultural behaviors that seem bizarre and even horrifying to some people can seem not only normal but even innate to humanity when seen by others. Seriously, if I can derail the thread for a moment in a potentially awkward direction, why is circumcision still practiced by Jews as well as non-Jews?

What were we talking about?

Clinton bombed your brother-in-law and you celebrated with 1,000 balloons is what I got.

[vbnautilus 48]

VB you totally glossed over the 'Ritual genital mutilation for religious purposes is wrong!' vs 'male circumcision' fallacy. I think it's actually an illustration of how religious and cultural behaviors that seem bizarre and even horrifying to some people can seem not only normal but even innate to humanity when seen by others. Seriously, if I can derail the thread for a moment in a potentially awkward direction, why is circumcision still practiced by Jews as well as non-Jews?

I was making a pretty obscure reference to this: http://www.slate.com/id/2266154/It was probably the latter consideration that helped impel the majority of American Orthodox Jews to give up the practice of metzitzah b'peh, a radical form of male circumcision that is topped off, if you will forgive the expression, by the sucking of the infant's penis by the rabbi or mohel so as to remove any remaining blood or debris. A few tiny sects still cling to this disgusting ritual, which in New York a few years ago led to a small but deadly outbreak of herpes among recently circumcised babies. On that occasion, despite calls for a ban on the practice from many Jewish doctors, the vastly overrated Mayor Michael Bloomberg chose an election year to say that such "free exercise" should not be interfered with.(from Christopher Hitchens)So you can see how far Bloomberg is willing to go with this "religious freedom" nonsense.

[antistuff 0]

another problem is that many of the women that are enslaved live in fear of speaking out, for fear of being beaten, or abandoned and homeless, etc. Anyway, maybe we just need to write the law so it doesn't specifically target the Burqa, and base it on a health or mental health issue.We value facial recognition and face-to-face interaction and any clothing that is worn on a systematic and continuous basis by concealing the facial area with the intent to deny those inherant rights of our citizens is deemed to be damaging to both the individual whether imposed or self-imposed and harmful to society as a whole on the basis of health and security and palinisms and other stuff.

that is their problem and is not justification to pass laws telling people what they can and cannot wear. this is so black and white and simple its not even funny.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I was making a pretty obscure reference to this: http://www.slate.com/id/2266154/It was probably the latter consideration that helped impel the majority of American Orthodox Jews to give up the practice of metzitzah b'peh, a radical form of male circumcision that is topped off, if you will forgive the expression, by the sucking of the infant's penis by the rabbi or mohel so as to remove any remaining blood or debris. A few tiny sects still cling to this disgusting ritual, which in New York a few years ago led to a small but deadly outbreak of herpes among recently circumcised babies. On that occasion, despite calls for a ban on the practice from many Jewish doctors, the vastly overrated Mayor Michael Bloomberg chose an election year to say that such "free exercise" should not be interfered with.(from Christopher Hitchens)So you can see how far Bloomberg is willing to go with this "religious freedom" nonsense.

That is gross. And Bloomberg, predictably, is right again. There's no point in banning such a practice.Also, this is pretty much the epitome of pointless political issues that are aimed at dividing people. Even bringing it up seems like a waste of time.

[BaseJester 1]

The whole point is that forcing women to wear burkas is an anti-social behavior.

I agree, but I believe that the reason for the French making this law is to **** with the Muslims. Outward expression of religion is the thing they don't like; the anti-social nature of this expression is an excuse for (and bonus to) the ban.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

So, the people on my side on this issue are Balloon Guy, antistuff, and HBlask. It's like bizarro world.

[hblask 1]

So, the people on my side on this issue are Balloon Guy, antistuff, and HBlask. It's like bizarro world.

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

I, like you, am quite liberal when it comes to social issues. It's the government's role in the economy where we differ.

[Balloon guy 158]

So, the people on my side on this issue are Balloon Guy, antistuff, and HBlask. It's like bizarro world.

I don't really have a side here.I am against the government making a law like this.But I am also against the French in general.Not a big fan of muslim's So a law by the government of France that screws muslims...man I am conflicted...Any chance I can just continue to disagree with everyone about this whole thing?

[hblask 1]

I, like you, am quite liberal when it comes to social issues. It's the government's role in the economy where we differ.

I completely understand that, because that's where I used to be on the political spectrum. But then I started looking behind the curtains, and saw that social freedom is inherently tied to economic freedom. It's pretty rare where the two are successfully separated, and usually it's the wrong way (*).(*) Although if you have economic freedom, you tend to be in a position to ignore or avoid govt social overreach.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I don't really have a side here.I am against the government making a law like this.But I am also against the French in general.

I was mad at the French too. But then I was on the bus this morning and saw an incredibly pretty French girl, and suddenly all my ill feelings went away.Also, I saw a Muslim wearing a Burka the other day, but it was in Switzerland, not France. I wonder what would have happened had she tried to cross the border? (Of course, nothing would have happened because the border that I cross every day is completely unguarded, but that's beside the point).