Rules/etiquette

[aaa777kkk 0]

I was playing at a local card room and the following situation happenned:Player A was making huge bets trying to push Player B off of his hand. It didn't work, Player B called all the way down to the River and showed a straight for the winner. Player B then asked to see Player A's hand, Player A seemed to think that was in poor taste to ask, stood up, reached over and mixed his cards in to the muck so the could not be found or seen.1) what is the rule? should Player A have been required to show since he was called?2) was it in poor taste for Player A to ask?3) was it in poor taste for Player B to mix his cards in the muck instead of showing?Thanks.

[kobe2odom8 14]

standard

[CrookedLink 0]

1) Yes2) Hell Yes3) Meh.

[JustLikeNegs 1]

3,1,2

[king_tanner 84]

If player B didn't want to look like a dick he should have waited for player A to show his hand before showing his own hand. I can see how player A would be frustrated with player B, but both players are showing bad taste.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

I was playing at a local card room and the following situation happenned:Player A was making huge bets trying to push Player B off of his hand. It didn't work, Player B called all the way down to the River and showed a straight for the winner. Player B then asked to see Player A's hand, Player A seemed to think that was in poor taste to ask, stood up, reached over and mixed his cards in to the muck so the could not be found or seen.1) what is the rule? should Player A have been required to show since he was called?2) was it in poor taste for Player A to ask?3) was it in poor taste for Player B to mix his cards in the muck instead of showing?Thanks.

If asked to show, he has to show. This is bad form though and shouldn't be done unless you suspect colluding. It is wrong for the player to mix his cards up into the muck.

[Merby 3]

yes

[aaa777kkk 0]

If asked to show, he has to show. This is bad form though and shouldn't be done unless you suspect colluding. It is wrong for the player to mix his cards up into the muck.

Do you ask because you suspect collusion or because you called his bet and would like to know whether he was on a complete bluff or if he had some kind of legitimate hand? He was pushing the table around for quite a while with a big stack of chips, I would like to know what he was doing.I thought Player A maybe broke an unwritten rule by asking but Player B was acting like a jerk by forcing his hand in the muck in case the dealer wanted to turn them up.

[GOCUBSGO 77]

Pretty sure neither one of them would be welcome at my local casino game. Asking to see someone's mucked cards are fighting words around these parts.

[king_tanner 84]

The only time I ask to see cards after a pot is when my cards are turned up and the guy is looking at the board shaking his head for 10 minutes. MUCK EM OR SHOW EM ALREADY!

[FARGOpokerND 22]

Do you ask because you suspect collusion or because you called his bet and would like to know whether he was on a complete bluff or if he had some kind of legitimate hand? He was pushing the table around for quite a while with a big stack of chips, I would like to know what he was doing.I thought Player A maybe broke an unwritten rule by asking but Player B was acting like a jerk by forcing his hand in the muck in case the dealer wanted to turn them up.

You can ask, but its generally not looked well upon. If Player A bets and Player B calls, if Player B wants to see Player A's cards, he should just not flip his cards over first, thus forcing Player A to outright muck his hand or turn his hand over. Player A technically has to show down first since he was the one that made the bet and he got called. If Player A chooses to muck when it is his turn to show his cards, Player B should be awarded the pot and then Player B can muck his cards without having to show as well.

[bbgun 0]

You can ask, but its generally not looked well upon. If Player A bets and Player B calls, if Player B wants to see Player A's cards, he should just not flip his cards over first, thus forcing Player A to outright muck his hand or turn his hand over. Player A technically has to show down first since he was the one that made the bet and he got called. If Player A chooses to muck when it is his turn to show his cards, Player B should be awarded the pot and then Player B can muck his cards without having to show as well.

Some casinos will not award a pot unless you table both cards...

[TrueAce13 18]

Some casinos will not award a pot unless you table both cards...

I've never heard of this, but yeah...if player B really wants to see player A's cards, he shouldn't show right away

[FARGOpokerND 22]

Some casinos will not award a pot unless you table both cards...

I suppose this is true (Although I have never been to a casino that has that rule, and I think it is a silly rule, but that isn't the point )

[Merby 3]

Some casinos will not award a pot unless you table both cards...

This is true. In order to be awarded the pot at showdown, the winning hand must table all of their cards and not just the card that allows the had to win the pot.

I've never heard of this, but yeah...if player B really wants to see player A's cards, he shouldn't show right away

Bbgun was referring to both cards in a player's hand and not both hands. But yeah, that is a safe and unoffensive way to do it. Occasionally, player A will just say, "you're good" and muck his hand. Most dealers will direct the last aggressor to reveal his hand once it becomes apparent that neither player wants to show their hand first. If neither player makes a move to show their hand, often another player at the table will just pipe up and ask to see all hands (just to get the hand over with and on to the next hand).

[Fade2241 0]

Some casinos will not award a pot unless you table both cards...

Yep, if there is a showdown this is true and *both* is the key word. You can't table just one card to win, you have to show both.

[Shark527 0]

Then what about this example from the last time I played at a casino.I'm getting low on chips and push all in on a board when I have top pair/straight draw. Folds around to a guy who calls and announces that he has a gutshot draw and nut flush draw. He is holding his cards up off the table showing what he has and waiting for me to show, thinking I'm going to do the same. At my casino, you do not have to show cards until showdown. He asks if I'm not going to show and gets offended when I shake my head no.Man fumbles to flip his cards back over facedown. Bink, river diamond and he has DA NUTS.He demands to see my cards. I told him I'm out after this hand and I'm not going to show. He again demands to see my cards and says that he is not going to show until I do. We have a 30 seconds back and forth about him showing his cards. He has the nuts on the river and is refusing to show to see an inferior hand with a player who has already announced they were not buying back in.Instead of pushing the issue like I wanted on his behavior (%$#! You @$$hole), I slowly slide my cards with two fingers across the table until the hit the muck. He again demands to see the cards and commands the dealer to flip them over.The dealer gets tired of he bantering and flip over the cards. Man see's my hand and says "Thank you" before finally collecting the pot. Etiquette here?

[BaseJester 1]

Etiquette here?

He called. Show your hand.

[tbrick412 0]

Then what about this example from the last time I played at a casino.I'm getting low on chips and push all in on a board when I have top pair/straight draw. Folds around to a guy who calls and announces that he has a gutshot draw and nut flush draw. He is holding his cards up off the table showing what he has and waiting for me to show, thinking I'm going to do the same. At my casino, you do not have to show cards until showdown. He asks if I'm not going to show and gets offended when I shake my head no.Man fumbles to flip his cards back over facedown. Bink, river diamond and he has DA NUTS.He demands to see my cards. I told him I'm out after this hand and I'm not going to show. He again demands to see my cards and says that he is not going to show until I do. We have a 30 seconds back and forth about him showing his cards. He has the nuts on the river and is refusing to show to see an inferior hand with a player who has already announced they were not buying back in.Instead of pushing the issue like I wanted on his behavior (%$#! You @$$hole), I slowly slide my cards with two fingers across the table until the hit the muck. He again demands to see the cards and commands the dealer to flip them over.The dealer gets tired of he bantering and flip over the cards. Man see's my hand and says "Thank you" before finally collecting the pot. Etiquette here?

go find his car and slash his tires

[Dratj 0]

He called. Show your hand.

yep, i agree, you are first to act, show your hand. I agree the other guy is also being a douche but so are you.

[Jam-Fly 8]

1) Yes2) Hell Yes3) Meh.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

Then what about this example from the last time I played at a casino.I'm getting low on chips and push all in on a board when I have top pair/straight draw. Folds around to a guy who calls and announces that he has a gutshot draw and nut flush draw. He is holding his cards up off the table showing what he has and waiting for me to show, thinking I'm going to do the same. At my casino, you do not have to show cards until showdown. He asks if I'm not going to show and gets offended when I shake my head no.Man fumbles to flip his cards back over facedown. Bink, river diamond and he has DA NUTS.He demands to see my cards. I told him I'm out after this hand and I'm not going to show. He again demands to see my cards and says that he is not going to show until I do. We have a 30 seconds back and forth about him showing his cards. He has the nuts on the river and is refusing to show to see an inferior hand with a player who has already announced they were not buying back in.Instead of pushing the issue like I wanted on his behavior (%$#! You @$$hole), I slowly slide my cards with two fingers across the table until the hit the muck. He again demands to see the cards and commands the dealer to flip them over.The dealer gets tired of he bantering and flip over the cards. Man see's my hand and says "Thank you" before finally collecting the pot. Etiquette here?

So let me get this straight, you bet and he called. It is your responsibility for turning it over before him. If you don't want to turn over first, you can muck. So why did you spend 30 seconds arguing with him over showing your cards? If he wants to see yours first, you either oblige or just muck your cards.What he did....getting them turned over and arguing with you is a direct result from you pushing the subject more than it needed to be pushed.

[Merby 3]

Then what about this example from the last time I played at a casino.I'm getting low on chips and push all in on a board when I have top pair/straight draw. Folds around to a guy who calls and announces that he has a gutshot draw and nut flush draw. He is holding his cards up off the table showing what he has and waiting for me to show, thinking I'm going to do the same. At my casino, you do not have to show cards until showdown. He asks if I'm not going to show and gets offended when I shake my head no.Man fumbles to flip his cards back over facedown. Bink, river diamond and he has DA NUTS.He demands to see my cards. I told him I'm out after this hand and I'm not going to show. He again demands to see my cards and says that he is not going to show until I do. We have a 30 seconds back and forth about him showing his cards. He has the nuts on the river and is refusing to show to see an inferior hand with a player who has already announced they were not buying back in.Instead of pushing the issue like I wanted on his behavior (%$#! You @$$hole), I slowly slide my cards with two fingers across the table until the hit the muck. He again demands to see the cards and commands the dealer to flip them over.The dealer gets tired of he bantering and flip over the cards. Man see's my hand and says "Thank you" before finally collecting the pot. Etiquette here?

It sounds like you are playing a tournament here. In that case, there are some casinos that insist on both players tabling their hands once all in on the turn. It sounds like this rule was not in force at this particular casino, but the other player may not have known that.EDIT: In terms of etiquette (if the must-show at all in rule was not in force) you were the first to breach etiquette by refusing to show your hand even though you put in the last raise. He could have kept his hand hidden until you were forced to show your hand, but showed his hand anyway, while asking to see yours. It was poor etiquette on his part to press the issue after it was clear that you lost the hand, but not surprising, given that he had expected that both hands had to be shown on the turn after the all in was called. As for trying to slide your cards into the muck, that is not just poor etiquette, but against the rules as an opponent had already asked to see your hand upon showdown. The dealer had to show your hand, so I hope at the very least, you bore him no ill will.

[Acekob 0]

I was playing at a local card room and the following situation happenned:Player A was making huge bets trying to push Player B off of his hand. It didn't work, Player B called all the way down to the River and showed a straight for the winner. Player B then asked to see Player A's hand, Player A seemed to think that was in poor taste to ask, stood up, reached over and mixed his cards in to the muck so the could not be found or seen.1) what is the rule? should Player A have been required to show since he was called?2) was it in poor taste for Player A to ask?3) was it in poor taste for Player B to mix his cards in the muck instead of showing?Thanks.

[StrippersNBlow 0]

If someone asks to see your hand in that situation, you should show them both, 1 in each eye.