jmbreslin 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Just prior to the FT of a micro 45-man turbo, 11 or 12 left at this point (top 7 pay).PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 500/1000 Blinds 125 Ante (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG (t20639)MP (t7223)Button (t16684)SB (t12904)Hero (BB) (t15525)Hero's M: 7.31Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, 102 folds, Button calls t1000, SB calls t500, Hero bets t3000, Button calls t2000, SB calls t2000Flop: (t9625) 5, 5, 7(3 players)SB checks, Hero bets t4000, Button calls t4000, 1 foldTurn: (t17625) 4(2 players)Hero checks, Button bets t4000, Hero ???I realize now my PF raise was probably on the small side, but with a very healthy stack prior to the bubble I want to be a bit careful about committing too much of it. Feel free to comment on all streets, though. Link to post Share on other sites
fakepoo 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Wow, you really put yourself in a tough spot. By raising so small preflop, the buttons calling range is probably the same as his button-limping range which probably contains hands that could have a 7 or 5 in them. Also, by c-betting so small and checking the turn, you are telling him that you missed so now he can value-bet his 7 as well as his 5 and can make small bluffs to try to push you off of high cards.As played, I probably shove over his bet on the turn to maximize value from a 7 or a draw. If he has a 5, he would have shoved the river anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Just jam pre. You have 15bbs, don't know how else you are gonna play it Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Just jam pre. You have 15bbs, don't know how else you are gonna play itor bet big pre and shove this flop all day. i mean seriously an M of 7ish is not that healthy of a stack. and it is way short to ever fold this kinda hand. deep enough imo to open with the intent of shove a lot of flops, or just pushing pre. kinda depends on style imo. i think it nets out about the same, maybe slightly better to shove preflop, but not a ton.shove pre>betting bigger preflop then shoving this flop>>>>>>>>>>>> your play. you shouldnt be see hardly any turns unless it is getting checked down with a stack this short! you have a very good PP and everyone is short. get it in, hope to hold against 2 overs and have a biigg stack going onto the final table.just taking down the limps like 50% the time is not a bad result seeing how you have a whole orbit before the BB again, just punish the limpers late it these things, people limp fold a ton in these spots bc they dont know what to do with there hands, exploit them! Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Just jam pre. You have 15bbs, don't know how else you are gonna play itSrsly...Failing that, jam the flop Link to post Share on other sites
RakeMyBlind 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 15 big blinds in a 45 man turbo is by no means desperation. 45 man turbos play very different than regular mtts/sngs. The raise pre is OK maybe 3500, but I would have definitely shoved this flop. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 This is an absolutely standard jam PF with 15 BBs over two limpers. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 its a turbo. I think this is pretty standard shove in any variation of tournaments (stts, 45 mans, mtts). We are oop. and...we have...15bbs. Jam Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 15 big blinds in a 45 man turbo is by no means desperation. 45 man turbos play very different than regular mtts/sngs. The raise pre is OK maybe 3500, but I would have definitely shoved this flop.You do realize that it being a turbo is a stronger case FOR jamming pre, not against it? Link to post Share on other sites
RakeMyBlind 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 You do realize that it being a turbo is a stronger case FOR jamming pre, not against it?In turbo 45 man's you often see yourself sitting with less than 10 big blinds or from what I have seen railing some guys. Also, I don't remember who but I remember hearing something similar from a regular poster here(I'll look it up and quote it). I am not saying that shoving the 10's here is a wrong I'm just saying that a 15 big blind stack in a 45 man is not an "OMG I have to shove the bottom of my range here" type of stack.I'm eating a popsicle with my daughter and they have "jokes" on the sticks. What kind of music does a blacksmith listen to?I'm off to find that quote. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 TT is not remotely close to the bottom of your range.You're doing this for value, not as a steal. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 In turbo 45 man's you often see yourself sitting with less than 10 big blinds or from what I have seen railing some guys. Also, I don't remember who but I remember hearing something similar from a regular poster here(I'll look it up and quote it). I am not saying that shoving the 10's here is a wrong I'm just saying that a 15 big blind stack in a 45 man is not an "OMG I have to shove the bottom of my range here" type of stack.I'm eating a popsicle with my daughter and they have "jokes" on the sticks. What kind of music does a blacksmith listen to?I'm off to find that quote.m below 8ish, big pocket pair, raising over limpers= shove the best option. i mean a standard open accomplishes the same basic thing sometimes, but it forces us to be able to fold out bad flops. i hate to have to do that, leave us open to maybe get bluffed. if we open and see a bad flop, we are screwed with a tiny m and have to tooth and claw onto the final table.By the way, from my experience in turbo MTT, people play the short stack part ssooo bad, shove you good hands and let villain be a moron and call with q9. a8's and other crap like that hoping to be in a race. i mean villains tend to play these spots sssooo bad. punish them! i mean your behind what? 3% of villains overall ranges, and a slight favorite a lot when you do get called. really easy spot imo Link to post Share on other sites
RakeMyBlind 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 TT is not remotely close to the bottom of your range.You're doing this for value, not as a steal.Not what I meant, 10's is definitely not the bottom of my range here. I'm just trying to find out when the correct "danger zone" is in these 45-man turbo's. Like how short would you have to be to open shove QJ? Sorry that I drug this out, I'm learning and obviously suck bad. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Not what I meant, 10's is definitely not the bottom of my range here. I'm just trying to find out when the correct "danger zone" is in these 45-man turbo's. Like how short would you have to be to open shove QJ? Sorry that I drug this out, I'm learning and obviously suck bad.it is slightly more advanced then my m is this im in danger zone. this is why villains drop the ball in these spots a lot. its more about seeing the options, how much we have to commit, and knowing it sucks when we have to fold on a bad board or bluff away our whole stack. m of 7 isnt a horrible stack, but for this specific spot, we have had our options limited. does that help? Link to post Share on other sites
RakeMyBlind 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 it is slightly more advanced then my m is this im in danger zone. this is why villains drop the ball in these spots a lot. its more about seeing the options, how much we have to commit, and knowing it sucks when we have to fold on a bad board or bluff away our whole stack. m of 7 isnt a horrible stack, but for this specific spot, we have had our options limited. does that help?Guess it depends on the situation as to when/what we shove. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Good discussion. In hindsight I think I agree with the shove preflop. I would rarely open-shove 15BB, but when the dead money in the pot represents 20% of my stack and nobody has shown strength, that's an ideal spot to shove. Avoids difficult decisions postflop, and in micro 45-turbos you will get called by hands like A8, small-med pairs, and QJ.As to the question about danger zone, I'm usually looking to open-shove once I get down to about 10BB. I will sometimes open-shove slightly larger stacks (e.g., 2200 stack at 100/200) if the effective stacks to act after me are all smaller than mine. Link to post Share on other sites
fakepoo 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 You have a button limper and a small blind completer. These are big hands rarely. There is now 5625 in the middle and you have 14400 left in your stack. Anytime you can shove and take down the pot while increasing your stack by nearly 40% with a hand as strong as a pair of tens, you should do it. If you get called, you are rarely behind and at least a coin flip. Shoving preflop is the mathematically correct play.As far as how wide to shove here, I am probably shoving A9+, KT+, QJ, 22+ and maybe even wider. Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I'm eating a popsicle with my daughter and they have "jokes" on the sticks. What kind of music does a blacksmith listen to?I'm off to find that quote.Heavy metal? Black Sabbath (Iron Man)? Link to post Share on other sites
Lucoo_ 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Problem:1. Preflop2. Flop3. TurnSolution:1. Shove2. Shove3. Shove Link to post Share on other sites
Lucoo_ 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 You have a button limper and a small blind completer. These are big hands rarely. There is now 5625 in the middle and you have 14400 left in your stack. Anytime you can shove and take down the pot while increasing your stack by nearly 40% with a hand as strong as a pair of tens, you should do it. If you get called, you are rarely behind and at least a coin flip. Shoving preflop is the mathematically correct play.As far as how wide to shove here, I am probably shoving A9+, KT+, QJ, 22+ and maybe even wider.This to support my theory. Link to post Share on other sites
RakeMyBlind 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Heavy metal? Black Sabbath (Iron Man)?Yeah, you are correct with Heavy Metal. Link to post Share on other sites
Shark527 0 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 This is an absolutely standard jam PF with 15 BBs over two limpers.As you played it, shove flop. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I agree with jamming this pre. 15BBs post ante plays pretty similar to 10BBs pre ante. If you want to 2.5x your 15BB stack when there aren't antes I'm fine with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now