Sng Grinder Thread

[trystero 0]

I can see Wiz's logic, yeah, gap theory and all of that. I still think it's a call when considering game dynamics. The players had been extremely aggressive, so I wasn't getting any opportunities to steal blinds. I had magically gone from like 3800 to 2250 relatively quickly. But it's neat to think of sngs in terms of money won and lost and not simply in chips. I can see why we'd want to fold there when we're outchipped by UTG even with a holding as strong as AK. This is one of those 'like woah' moments you get every so often in poker. The last one I had was also math related, when I learned that bluff shoving on later streets is very useful as your opponents only need to fold a small percentage of the time for it to be profitable.Not like any of it matters; I'll get sick of SNGs before the weekend

[outsider13 0]

Not like any of it matters; I'll get sick of SNGs before the weekend

Lol, yeah....we are a special breed. Some guys make a living by them to. I couldn't imagine playing thousands a month.

[trystero 0]

UhWhat do you guys do here? SB has been donking his way to victory basically calling all raises and running over the tableFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB (t9557)BB (t1450)Hero (UTG) (t1153)Button (t1340)Hero's M: 7.69Preflop: Hero is UTG with [ 9 9 ]

[lurbz 2]

Lol, yeah....we are a special breed. Some guys make a living by them to. I couldn't imagine playing thousands a month.

It's hell.

UhWhat do you guys do here? SB has been donking his way to victory basically calling all raises and running over the tableFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB (t9557)BB (t1450)Hero (UTG) (t1153)Button (t1340)Hero's M: 7.69Preflop: Hero is UTG with [ 9 9 ]

Pile all day.

[outsider13 0]

Pile all day.

Yup

[trystero 0]

meh I folded, since we were at the 50/100 lvl and I was utg. wiz says it's a marginal fold if we give sb a wide calling rangefortunately for me that I had nitted it up, because sb had 77 and busted kq on a q77 board

[jmbreslin 0]

Note to self: stop pushing over limpers with mediocre Aces. I don't know why I keep getting surprised when a micro 45-turbo player limps and then calls off almost all his chips when I push and he flips over something like A8 or AT.So what's a good rule of thumb for the kicker cutoff when it comes to pushing over limpers in non-desperate situations? For example, suppose your're in a micro MTT and blinds are 100/200 (suppose it's a 45-turbo). You have about 2100 chips in late position. A player limps in MP and it's folded to you. Assuming there isn't a massive stack sitting on your left and you don't have any read on the limper, what's the worst Ace you'd push with here?

[trystero 0]

Wow I run so great, 8 tourneys, 6 bubbles all on bullshitFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 60/120 Blinds (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (BB) (t2230)UTG (t1380)Button (t4420)SB (t5470)Hero's M: 12.39Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , Q 2 folds, SB bets t360, Hero raises to t2230 (All-In), SB calls t1870Flop: (t4460) 2 , K , 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)Turn: (t4460) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t4460) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: t4460kk

[trystero 0]

Note to self: stop pushing over limpers with mediocre Aces. I don't know why I keep getting surprised when a micro 45-turbo player limps and then calls off almost all his chips when I push and he flips over something like A8 or AT.So what's a good rule of thumb for the kicker cutoff when it comes to pushing over limpers in non-desperate situations? For example, suppose your're in a micro MTT and blinds are 100/200 (suppose it's a 45-turbo). You have about 2100 chips in late position. A player limps in MP and it's folded to you. Assuming there isn't a massive stack sitting on your left and you don't have any read on the limper, what's the worst Ace you'd push with here?

I'm obviously not the one to ask but what i've seen in micros is that you're getting called light. I guess you could stove a range and put various aces in and see at which point you're OK to balance the risk of being called by AJ and JT.

[outsider13 0]

So what's a good rule of thumb for the kicker cutoff when it comes to pushing over limpers in non-desperate situations? For example, suppose your're in a micro MTT and blinds are 100/200 (suppose it's a 45-turbo). You have about 2100 chips in late position. A player limps in MP and it's folded to you. Assuming there isn't a massive stack sitting on your left and you don't have any read on the limper, what's the worst Ace you'd push with here?

I was watching a video last week and the instructor said that sooooooo many people overshove with weak aces and he was saying how bad of a play it was (sorry ). The problem is that these people will very rarely fold and you aren't ahead of their range often enough for it to be profitable. I think in most cases, you probably have 3 outs if they call and 6 if you are lucky. The times you will be ahead, villain will easily have 6 outs to bink. I would shove in that spot with probably AJ+ and 66+.Cliffnotes, get weak aces in with vigorish.

[jmbreslin 0]

Yeah, but sometimes it's easy to forget and over-estimate your fold equity. Limping and then calling off your stack with A8 is just such terrible poker, but I don't know why I keep finding myself surprised to see it in micro 45's.AJ might be a bit tight in this situation precisely because these players will call with the middling Aces, but I'm not sure I'd go lower than AT. AT also seems to be a raising cutoff point for lots of micro players, i.e., open-raises with AJ will far outnumber limps, but the ratio is much closer for AT. Below that point the limps start to outnumber the raises. If that is indeed true, then it makes sense to push as "low" as AT on the assumption that you're far less likely to run into a bigger limped Ace. A9 is probably a bit too marginal.Another question: how much does suitedness affect your decision with marginal Aces? Since suitedness can add a few equity points to your hand, would you go down to something like A8s in the above situation? Or does the probability of being dominated simply outweigh the added benefit of suitedness?

[outsider13 0]

Yeah, but sometimes it's easy to forget and over-estimate your fold equity. Limping and then calling off your stack with A8 is just such terrible poker, but I don't know why I keep finding myself surprised to see it in micro 45's.AJ might be a bit tight in this situation precisely because these players will call with the middling Aces, but I'm not sure I'd go lower than AT. AT also seems to be a raising cutoff point for lots of micro players, i.e., open-raises with AJ will far outnumber limps, but the ratio is much closer for AT. Below that point the limps start to outnumber the raises. If that is indeed true, then it makes sense to push as "low" as AT on the assumption that you're far less likely to run into a bigger limped Ace. A9 is probably a bit too marginal.Another question: how much does suitedness affect your decision with marginal Aces? Since suitedness can add a few equity points to your hand, would you go down to something like A8s in the above situation? Or does the probability of being dominated simply outweigh the added benefit of suitedness?

My range is really hard to base on a hypothetical situation. If I see a MP limp from a guy playing 75/10 with a stack, I'm shoving Ax all day long, any pair, probably KQ and maybe KJs. It really depends on reads. Readless and without stats, I tend to side with the less variance route when I have a healthy stack.

[HighwayStar 8]

Ax is the nuts against a lot of peoples limp/calling range.I'm always surprised by some of the folds you get when you shove over limps, also by some of the calls. It's quite a variable thing.

[potatoman 0]

<rant>I'm never playing another online cash game in my life.... sngs/rebuy tournaments are where I make money. Cash games are where I run into set over set CONSTANTLY.</rant>Just moved up from $5.50s to the $11's. Is it just me or are the $11 softer than the $5's. I remember this being the case years ago. I chalked it up to gamblers wanting to play for at least $10 a game and poor grinding playing the $5's to rebuild a bankroll. Also people seems to go on tilt at $11's where few people could care less about a suckout at $5's.Regardless, it's going well so far.

[outsider13 0]

<rant>I'm never playing another online cash game in my life.... sngs/rebuy tournaments are where I make money. Cash games are where I run into set over set CONSTANTLY.</rant>Just moved up from $5.50s to the $11's. Is it just me or are the $11 softer than the $5's. I remember this being the case years ago. I chalked it up to gamblers wanting to play for at least $10 a game and poor grinding playing the $5's to rebuild a bankroll. Also people seems to go on tilt at $11's where few people could care less about a suckout at $5's.Regardless, it's going well so far.

I remember back when I played the regular speed stts and 18/27 man, I could not beat the $5 but I ran quite well at the $11s. This was about 2 years ago though when I played them regularly.

[trystero 0]

Yeah I'm not Doomswitched or anythingFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 60/120 Blinds (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (BB) (t9190)SB (t4310)Hero's M: 51.06Preflop: Hero is BB with K , 7 :heart:SB calls t60, Hero checksFlop: (t240) 3 , A , 7 (2 players)Hero checks, SB bets t240, Hero calls t240Turn: (t720) K (2 players)Hero checks, SB bets t120, Hero raises to t600, SB raises to t1080, Hero raises to t8830 (All-In), SB calls t2870 (All-In)River: (t8620) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)Total pot: t8620Results:SB had 3 , 2 (three of a kind, threes).Hero had K , 7 (two pair, Kings and sevens).Outcome: SB won t8620Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 60/120 Blinds (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (SB) (t4700)BB (t8800)Hero's M: 26.11Preflop: Hero is SB with 7 , 9 :heart:Hero calls t60, BB checksFlop: (t240) 3 , 7 , 4 (2 players)BB bets t8680 (All-In), Hero calls t4580 (All-In)Turn: (t9400) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)River: (t9400) A (2 players, 2 all-in)Total pot: t9400Results:Hero had 7 , 9 (one pair, sevens).BB had 3 , 7 (two pair, sevens and threes).Outcome: BB won t9400

[trystero 0]

wtfffffffvillain has been very tightFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton (t4510)SB (t4000)Hero (BB) (t4310)UTG (t680)Hero's M: 9.58Preflop: Hero is BB with 9 , 5 1 fold, Button calls t300, SB calls t150, Hero checksFlop: (t900) 5 , 9 , 8 (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets t500, Button raises to t1000, 1 fold, Hero foldsTotal pot: t2100

[jmbreslin 0]

wtfffffffvillain has been very tightFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton (t4510)SB (t4000)Hero (BB) (t4310)UTG (t680)Hero's M: 9.58Preflop: Hero is BB with 9 , 5 1 fold, Button calls t300, SB calls t150, Hero checksFlop: (t900) 5 , 9 , 8 (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets t500, Button raises to t1000, 1 fold, Hero foldsTotal pot: t2100

What do you think he has, exactly 76? A set? This could easily be A9, or more likely a slowplayed big pair. Tight players love to limp the big pairs in the late stages.

[trystero 0]

Why are we getting involved when blinds are 150/300 and UTG has 680? Getting stacked is disastrous.results-wise, he did show 76. I don't think he has a big pair because he was raising sporadically throughout the tournament. We were 4-handed for a while and every so often he'd raise it to 3x.I've never been in a situation like that before in cash. SNGs are so weird.

[trystero 0]

So that I don't whine too much, it helps sometimes to run like Godhand 1 pf is kinda loose, but he had 3bet me 3/5 button raises in a row so...shipFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (3 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB (t4105)BB (t2100)Hero (Button) (t7295)Hero's M: 81.06Preflop: Hero is Button with A , 8 Hero bets t180, 1 fold, BB raises to t420, Hero raises to t7295 (All-In), BB calls t1680 (All-In)Flop: (t4230) 4 , 8 , A (2 players, 2 all-in)Turn: (t4230) J (2 players, 2 all-in)River: (t4230) K (2 players, 2 all-in)Total pot: t4230Results:Hero had A , 8 (two pair, Aces and eights).BB had A , Q (one pair, Aces).Outcome: Hero won t4230Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB (t3945)Hero (SB) (t9555)Hero's M: 79.62Preflop: Hero is SB with 5 , 5 Hero bets t240, BB raises to t720, Hero raises to t9555 (All-In), BB calls t3225 (All-In)Flop: (t7890) 6 , 5 , 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)Turn: (t7890) Q (2 players, 2 all-in)River: (t7890) 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)Total pot: t7890Results:Hero had 5 , 5 (three of a kind, fives).BB had 10 , 10 (one pair, tens).Outcome: Hero won t7890

[trystero 0]

typical full tilt, run well in literally one tournament and bust the next 8 w/out cashingaccording to SS I'm on super tilt. if by super tilt you mean losing every race imaginable and continually running into big hands.lolsngs

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Make the correct decisions, that's the best you can do sometimes.

[trystero 0]

yup, I reconciled myself to that unfortunate fact many moons ago. I can take beats w/the best of 'em.....I'm just adjusting to the SNG template, and what's natural. It feels like going 1/10 (3rd) is bad, but I guess it's kind of standard when you're put to so many showdowns, and the difference literally between one coinflip can mean the difference between a winning and a losing session.I do hate that feeling of doomswitchedness, when you're on the bubble say 3rd in chips, and slowly you realize that yes, YOU'RE going to be the one to bubble, as you don't pick up any hands, and the short-stack just doubled through with AJ to 44, and the big stack keeps donating to everyone but you...and when you do shove and get insta-called, it doesn't matter if you're holding AK or QT - you got called because villain KNEW that you weren't good at winning showdowns, and his jack ten proves it.

[potatoman 0]

The doomswitch hits all of us. Yesterday I took 4 two-outer rivers in 20 games. Taking bad beats is a significant part of the game. I just try to focus on playing the best I can, and making the right decisions. I don't think about money when I'm playing. Money's not the goal. Playing your best is the goal, and if you do that, everything else will fall into place.

[jmbreslin 0]

Yeah, it's tough to deal with the short-term variance when you don't play a huge volume but as long as you're getting it in good things will even out. If you're routinely getting it in bad, then you have to examine your play.That said, when it comes to STT play the bubble is where most mistakes are made. It's probably what separates the long term winners from the losers.