Just Wrote An Email To Pokerstars

[BSmitty23 0]

Good luck, I hope you find progress!An email protest always helps, have multiple players send the same email forcing them to substantiate or refute the seemingly proven facts... Players are going to have to understand the only one who is going to have their best interests truly in mind are the players... it's just like people of any nation, when you put that much trust in any created entity who's focal point is money the well being of it's people will always be second hand to their own profitability or temporary comfort in life...The power of the people is in the people, their ability to become aware, understand, and take action...

Easy cowboy, lets see what stars has to say before rallying the troops.

[FCP Bob 1,314]

I'll just chime in here that I know a couple people in the Stars Security Dept and they do take bots very very seriously.I came into some information about some heads up limit holdem bots at a site other than Stars and I shared that information with somebody in Stars security and I know for a fact that he investigated to see if the people behind the bots were active at Stars.This situation could be bots but I think it's more likely that somebody has trained some players to play a very rudimentary push or fold short stack strategy and by having more than one person play the account they can increase the level of benefits they get as opposed to each person playing on only one account.Correct me if I'm wrong but the accounts are based in China ? As much as the Chinese ecomony is booming a thousand dollars per month could go a long way to a lot of people in most of the country there.

[nutzbuster 7]

Online is rigged?SAY IT ISN'T SO!

[HollywoodAFD 0]

I only glanced at this for a second... but if this is accurate he paid 9k in rake and won 3k .... wouldn't this mean this 'bot' is down 6k?

This

I like this thread because it shows that the minbuy guys aren't making a thing but a massive amount of fpps.

This I worked for Poker Stars for 2 years and they do take bots very seriously but they don't respond to many emails. Yours is at least backed up with some facts so hopefully a security tracker will look into this but they get thousands of emails a day with people claiming they were cheated, PS lost their money, a bot stole their money, they had a winning hand and didn't get paid...etc etc.If you are ever playing and get a PM that asks a simple question....answer it. That's one of the bot trackers they use to alert security when someone has sat at a table for a long time.

[bigcoled 1]

Online is rigged?SAY IT ISN'T SO!

I think the idea is... Things change... just because we had an answer that online poker isn't rigged yesterday, doesn't mean it isn't today?...general idea, ya dig?... in general we essentially couldn't conceptualise exactly how someone could go about rigging it in the future because it hasn't happened yet, though Stars can do everything it can to cover any possible hole... when it comes to the idea of a user using an account operating within the general operation of the game without changing anything in the actual programming of the game they are essentially finding a way to beat the game... If they are beating the game is there a problem? Your answer is, no if it is a human, yes if it is a computer... computers are programmed by people, the general ideas of how answers would be calculated is there, it's a matter of being able to execute without error everytime in every situation without fail, without swing of emotion... So we are saying we cannot win the game if we cannot make our opponent give in to emotion, or stray from their current strategy?... The general idea in poker is that you have to fill in information, you have to make your strategy adapt to that which you feel is most optimal to counter each opponent in each situation, or realise if winning the hand just isn't an option... there are obviously higher level strategies, this is a general idea... If you are playing and you feel you are playing the best way you can for a situation, does it mean it IS the best way to play? Essentially we are saying that if we could measure every bit of everything in plsy at a poker table, including the degreee to which someone pays attention to different details, etc, that truth exists, that an absolutley optimal way to play EXISTS in each situation... however, that doesn't mean the same play will be exactly correct if you play the same situation again... see?When we set ourselves in a truth, it is essentailly a delusion we create for our own comfort, it is "our truth" with an ignorance of the ongoing evolution of actual truth which is beyond our capability to understand, beyond our currently most optimal play. Truth never stays in one spot too long, just as we should never stop moving towards truth... We choose to sit in our pride, wade in our greed, and wallow in our ignorance, as opposed to face life with an open mind and a clear head...Ya dig?

[outsider13 0]

i also am interested in what they say about this. It seems to me that it would be bots playing other than multiple people just at the way they play.

You do realize that some people employ this style of poker, don't you? It is a common for people who put a lot of hands in because it requires zero thinking. There are seemingly more and more shortstackers because it's a style that requires little focus and it's unexploitable for the most part. They basically rathole all day.OP, I completely understand your concern, but you can't just automatically assume "OMG CHEATERS" and email stars saying their site is full of bots and you demand that they all get banned. I'm not sure if you are aware that they do have bot detection as well as pop-ups that have to be keyed in on suspicious accounts (I've had this before). Plus, recently there have been documented cases of people doing 650k hands in a month, so the hand volume that you have quoted is FAR from "IMPOSSIBLE".Even though it seems like a ridiculous amount of hands which I completely agree, just because the average player would go completely crazy doing it doesn't make it impossible. I'm not too sure that you are aware that this world is really big and some people excel at stupid shit like this. Call me a bit naive, but I would bet that there are probably a handful of sleep deprived compulsive gamblers in this world.And lastly, of all of the people you've quoted, there are only 2 winning players really, and there's nothing fishy about their session lengths. All of the people who seemingly play at all hours with 2 hour breaks don't really win. If your true problem is with high volume shortstackers, well you better get used to it because they aren't going anywhere.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I only glanced at this for a second... but if this is accurate he paid 9k in rake and won 3k .... wouldn't this mean this 'bot' is down 6k?

no... He paid 9k in rake and got 3k in rake back. his session are UP. he is winning.WHICH.. brings me to my next point.. BOTS that are winning????!!!?? How can these people not play vs a shortstack bot? common thats like taking candy from a baby

[bigcoled 1]

You do realize that some people employ this style of poker, don't you? It is a common for people who put a lot of hands in because it requires zero thinking. There are seemingly more and more shortstackers because it's a style that requires little focus and it's unexploitable for the most part. They basically rathole all day.OP, I completely understand your concern, but you can't just automatically assume "OMG CHEATERS" and email stars saying their site is full of bots and you demand that they all get banned. I'm not sure if you are aware that they do have bot detection as well as pop-ups that have to be keyed in on suspicious accounts (I've had this before). Plus, recently there have been documented cases of people doing 650k hands in a month, so the hand volume that you have quoted is FAR from "IMPOSSIBLE".Even though it seems like a ridiculous amount of hands which I completely agree, just because the average player would go completely crazy doing it doesn't make it impossible. I'm not too sure that you are aware that this world is really big and some people excel at stupid shit like this. Call me a bit naive, but I would bet that there are probably a handful of sleep deprived compulsive gamblers in this world.And lastly, of all of the people you've quoted, there are only 2 winning players really, and there's nothing fishy about their session lengths. All of the people who seemingly play at all hours with 2 hour breaks don't really win. If your true problem is with high volume shortstackers, well you better get used to it because they aren't going anywhere.

In general, if I was working on making a profitable program, or had programmers working for me to do it, I would be testing on the smaller stakes first... I mean who says they aren't testing newer bots? Creating active sample sizes? They could be releasing them and will have to tune them to general play at different levels? I'm not a programmer, or a bot creator, all I'm saying is... answers are temporary, minds are always working...

[Royal_Tour 0]

Oh. so this dude is based in china?? well its siimple. he isnt a bot.He is a ex factory worker who took to playing poker, found a ok strategy to play super TAG and buyin for the min to help him keep track of his multitabling better.He does a lot of meth to stay awake. a popular drug in china. Also, while we're at it.. one thing that I think is more "criminal" than a potential bot... is sites like the one OP linked too..You can see all the guys stats, his winning/losing.. types of hands he plays, and even a comment section for people to comment on how this guy played.wtf??? thats gross IMO.

[nutzbuster 7]

I think the idea is... Things change... just because we had an answer that online poker isn't rigged yesterday, doesn't mean it isn't today?...general idea, ya dig?... in general we essentially couldn't conceptualise exactly how someone could go about rigging it in the future because it hasn't happened yet, though Stars can do everything it can to cover any possible hole... when it comes to the idea of a user using an account operating within the general operation of the game without changing anything in the actual programming of the game they are essentially finding a way to beat the game... If they are beating the game is there a problem? Your answer is, no if it is a human, yes if it is a computer... computers are programmed by people, the general ideas of how answers would be calculated is there, it's a matter of being able to execute without error everytime in every situation without fail, without swing of emotion... So we are saying we cannot win the game if we cannot make our opponent give in to emotion, or stray from their current strategy?... The general idea in poker is that you have to fill in information, you have to make your strategy adapt to that which you feel is most optimal to counter each opponent in each situation, or realise if winning the hand just isn't an option... there are obviously higher level strategies, this is a general idea... If you are playing and you feel you are playing the best way you can for a situation, does it mean it IS the best way to play? Essentially we are saying that if we could measure every bit of everything in plsy at a poker table, including the degreee to which someone pays attention to different details, etc, that truth exists, that an absolutley optimal way to play EXISTS in each situation... however, that doesn't mean the same play will be exactly correct if you play the same situation again... see?When we set ourselves in a truth, it is essentailly a delusion we create for our own comfort, it is "our truth" with an ignorance of the ongoing evolution of actual truth which is beyond our capability to understand, beyond our currently most optimal play. Truth never stays in one spot too long, just as we should never stop moving towards truth... We choose to sit in our pride, wade in our greed, and wallow in our ignorance, as opposed to face life with an open mind and a clear head...Ya dig?

[vbnautilus 48]

You do realize that some people employ this style of poker, don't you? It is a common for people who put a lot of hands in because it requires zero thinking.

well, that's also what makes it easy to implement in a bot.

[vbnautilus 48]

I worked for Poker Stars for 2 years

They have a stunt department?

[Royal_Tour 0]

They have a stunt department?

one wonders why he would leave pokerstars? I know freddy works for Pstars Macau and loves it.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

They have a stunt department?

Ha, you really thought that was Daniel playing hockey?

[mtdesmoines 3]

Also, while we're at it.. one thing that I think is more "criminal" than a potential bot... is sites like the one OP linked too..You can see all the guys stats, his winning/losing.. types of hands he plays, and even a comment section for people to comment on how this guy played.wtf??? thats gross IMO.

QFT

[vbnautilus 48]

Also, while we're at it.. one thing that I think is more "criminal" than a potential bot... is sites like the one OP linked too..You can see all the guys stats, his winning/losing.. types of hands he plays, and even a comment section for people to comment on how this guy played.wtf??? thats gross IMO.

It's against TOS to use that website while playing. Although they have admitted they can't tell what websites you're visiting while you play. Here's the Full Tilt language. Stars has something similar but less easy to find. Certain programs, websites, and subscription services provide extra information on opponents which may not be used during play. For example, the use of shared databases of tournament histories, results, and statistics are not permitted. Specific examples include:SharkScopeTop SharkSmart BuddyPoker Table Ratings

[runthemover 39]

They have a stunt department?

I can imagine it nowirwin: you ever pull a stunt like that and you're firedhad: =grumble=irwin: don't talk back to melarry: or your mattress is FREEEEEEEEEhad: please shut uplarry: I'm on itirwin: YOU'RE KILLING ME, LARRY!!

[NoSup4U 0]

It's against TOS to use that website while playing. Although they have admitted they can't tell what websites you're visiting while you play. Here's the Full Tilt language. Stars has something similar but less easy to find. Certain programs, websites, and subscription services provide extra information on opponents which may not be used during play. For example, the use of shared databases of tournament histories, results, and statistics are not permitted. Specific examples include:SharkScopeTop SharkSmart BuddyPoker Table Ratings

I thought Stars briefly banned SharkScope but then unbanned it after there was an uproar? (and I don't think Poker Table Ratings was ever banned there) I could be wrong as I don't really play on Stars, but that's what I remembered.Mark

[HollywoodAFD 0]

They have a stunt department?

lol...I was a moderator. It was kinda fun when sitting in hotel rooms.

one wonders why he would leave pokerstars? I know freddy works for Pstars Macau and loves it.

When I first started...they had no rules about how many hours you had to put in ...then they started requiring more than I was willing to put in.When I took this last film...I knew I would be working 70 hours a week and wouldn't have time to get the required hours in so I took a leave of absence and then just left all together.If you're interested in doing it...PM me and I can steer you in the right direction.

[outsider13 0]

I thought Stars briefly banned SharkScope but then unbanned it after there was an uproar? (and I don't think Poker Table Ratings was ever banned there) I could be wrong as I don't really play on Stars, but that's what I remembered.Mark

Quoted from Stars TOS

# Can you give some examples of tools and services which are prohibited?# The following are examples of tools and services which are prohibited at all times: 54. # Table Ratings aka Poker Table Ratings

And yeah, sharkscope is only not allowed while the client is open.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

I thought Stars briefly banned SharkScope but then unbanned it after there was an uproar? (and I don't think Poker Table Ratings was ever banned there) I could be wrong as I don't really play on Stars, but that's what I remembered.Mark

For a while...you couldn't use SharkScope when running Poker Stars... not sure if that's still the case.When I left... they didn't care if you used those sites but would gag you if you used the information on the table to harass a player.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

What does working as a Mod pay?

[HollywoodAFD 0]

What does working as a Mod pay?

You get paid in FPP's that you can redeem for gift cards, electronics, all kinds of stuff. I used most of mine for OneCall.com gift cards.... got 2 TV's, a camera.... sometimes would just turn them into cash and they will send you a check.Did that several times for $500 checks.It's not something to do for a real job...but I could do it while watching a football game and it didn't seem like really working.

[JubilantLankyLad 1,957]

this thread was scary enough when it was about bots playing on stars. but now it's about how holly used to be support @ stars and it has turned terrifying.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

this thread was scary enough when it was about bots playing on stars. but now it's about how holly used to be support @ stars and it has turned terrifying.

grow uplol