Proof For The Existence Of An Intelligent Creator

[crowTrobot 2]

So if there are no seperate events in time..the earth is exactly zero years old? And I thought I was a new earther...

if our time was formed in the big bang as it apparently was, it doesn't make any sense to speak about the big bangrequiring a "cause" in the classical timelike sense. QM has shown us that what happened likely is something humans aren't going to be able to comprehend through simple intuition.

[Balloon guy 158]

if our time was formed in the big bang as it apparently was, it doesn't make any sense to speak about the big bangrequiring a "cause" in the classical timelike sense. QM has shown us that what happened likely is something humans aren't going to be able to comprehend through simple intuition.

So this is the "God said it so I believe it" part of your theory?

[Balloon guy 158]

we know quantum events appear uncaused in the classical sense. we don't know why. those are facts.the OP's first cause argument assumes causation necessarily has to work classically for the big bang. that assumption is based on hisown intuition, not on evidence.

I don't think that you mean what you think you mean

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

The whole concept of cause and effect is based on the presumption that there are separate events in time. There aren't.

[crowTrobot 2]

So this is the "God said it so I believe it" part of your theory?

I don't think that you mean what you think you mean

this has nothing to do with me or what i think obviously. i'm not the one claiming to know what happened at the big bang. you are.stop with the lame attempts to shift the burden of proof.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

it must be a truly fufilling existence to spend your time trying to prove that people with a belief system are dumb.

[colonel Feathers 5]

We know that something happened, somehow, a really long time ago, and it made all sorts of stuff including people a nd furry animals. We just dont know how. We do know however it wasnt done by divine intellect, how we know that , Im not really sure, but there are books and professors with really neat sounding words that sort of explain it. All I know is, all youse guys what believe in God are just dumb, I dont know why you dumb, I just believe it.

[Balloon guy 158]

this has nothing to do with me or what i think obviously. i'm not the one claiming to know what happened at the big bang. you are.stop with the lame attempts to shift the burden of proof.

I don't believe in the big bang..completely makes no sense. Why would anyone believe in something as completely stupid as the Big Bang?Might as well believe in the FSM, actually there is more proof of the FSM, since it would only require a sudden appearance of only a few thousand pounds of matter and a tiny bit of energy.But le's stop pretending that you guys are so open minded and disconnected to the fact that without the Big Bang..your entire theory of evolution becomes just an opinion based exercise in denying the existance of God.You need the Big Bang. Without it, you guys are just another faith based belief sysem

[vbnautilus 48]

I don't believe in the big bang..completely makes no sense. Why would anyone believe in something as completely stupid as the Big Bang?

Basically because the universe is expanding. So did it suddenly start expanding at some point do you think? Or do you think it has always been expanding? Not really a problem for you since count back only 6K years and it isn't much smaller. But assume for the moment that the universe is much much older than that, what would you conclude?

[vbnautilus 48]

Oh, and I forgot this is a good spot to throw some jabs at religion for being so arrogant as to assume that the history of mankind is the history of the entirety of everything. If you think of the age of the universe as a day, the length of time humans has been present is equivalent to the last 20 seconds or so of that day. And these guys try and talk about humility!

[Balloon guy 158]

Oh, and I forgot this is a good spot to throw some jabs at religion for being so arrogant as to assume that the history of mankind is the history of the entirety of everything. If you think of the age of the universe as a day, the length of time humans has been present is equivalent to the last 20 seconds or so of that day. And these guys try and talk about humility!

And in the last 20 seconds of that day, we have spent about 1/1,000th of a second of time working on the understanding of what's going on, but this is apperently enough to draw enough of a conclusion to be smug and discount the notion of creation?

[Balloon guy 158]

Basically because the universe is expanding. So did it suddenly start expanding at some point do you think? Or do you think it has always been expanding? Not really a problem for you since count back only 6K years and it isn't much smaller. But assume for the moment that the universe is much much older than that, what would you conclude?

That things were closer then they are now, end if time had no beginning, that they were at one time all at one place.Now where they came from, why they were there and Who created it are not answered by this conjecture.

[crowTrobot 2]

I don't believe in the big bang..

obviously what you call the beginning of the universe is irrelevant to cosmological (first cause) arguments, which are the topic of this thread.

completely makes no sense. Why would anyone believe in something as completely stupid as the Big Bang?Might as well believe in the FSM, actually there is more proof of the FSM, since it would only require a sudden appearance of only a few thousand pounds of matter and a tiny bit of energy.But le's stop pretending that you guys are so open minded and disconnected to the fact that without the Big Bang..your entire theory of evolution becomes just an opinion based exercise in denying the existance of God.You need the Big Bang. Without it, you guys are just another faith based belief sysem

nice pile 'o straw men there.the big bang has nothing to do with evolution.the big bang is not a theory that says what exists suddenly appeared from nothing. science is not a giant conspiracy to disprove god.

[crowTrobot 2]

And in the last 20 seconds of that day, we have spent about 1/1,000th of a second of time working on the understanding of what's going on, but this is apperently enough to draw enough of a conclusion to be smug and discount the notion of creation?

the only thing being discounted in this thread is one particular philosophical "proof" for the existence of god (the cosmological argument).

[crowTrobot 2]

Now where they came from, why they were there and Who created it are not answered by this conjecture.

nothing in science currently says anything about why or how the universe exists. none of the accepted science you are ranting aboutincluding the big bang and evolution pretend to answer those questions, and no scientist or atheists pretends to rule out god as a possible cause based on evidence.YOU are the only one pretending to know the answers to those questions.

[vbnautilus 48]

That things were closer then they are now, end if time had no beginning, that they were at one time all at one place.Now where they came from, why they were there and Who created it are not answered by this conjecture.

Then you are in agreement with the physicists.

[vbnautilus 48]

And in the last 20 seconds of that day, we have spent about 1/1,000th of a second of time working on the understanding of what's going on, but this is apperently enough to draw enough of a conclusion to be smug and discount the notion of creation?

It's enough to generate testable hypotheses. Of the two of us though, only you are sure about how things started.

[Balloon guy 158]

It's enough to generate testable hypotheses. Of the two of us though, only you are sure about how things started.

Only one of us is using eye witness accounts from Someone who was there.

[vbnautilus 48]

Only one of us is using eye witness accounts from Someone who was there.

Do you know how unreliable eye witness testimony is?

[crowTrobot 2]

Do you know how unreliable eye witness testimony is?

since it's 2000-year-old 3nd-hand eyewitness testimony by someone's invisible friend it must be reliable.

[Balloon guy 158]

since it's 2000-year-old 3nd-hand eyewitness testimony by someone's invisible friend it must be reliable.

Glad to see you finally admit that the scriptures are actally 2,000 years old and not some 1,600 year old fabrication that isn't supported by anyone who isn't trying to push an agenda regardless of the facts

[crowTrobot 2]

Glad to see you finally admit that the scriptures are actally 2,000 years old and not some 1,600 year old fabrication that isn't supported by anyone who isn't trying to push an agenda regardless of the facts

wow attack of of the straw men

[Balloon guy 158]

wow attack of of the straw men

Wow deflection and denial

[crowTrobot 2]

Wow deflection and denial

obviously the torah is older than 2000 years, and some of the NT originates from the 2nd half of the first century. most christians are genuine in their belief. i've never said otherwise.stop making things up to hide behind.what i've said is credentialed "scientists" who promote young earth creationism invariably have demonstratable personal agendas, which is just stating the obvious.

[Balloon guy 158]

obviously the torah is older than 2000 years, and some of the NT originates from the 2nd half of the first century. most christians are genuine in their belief. i've never said otherwise.stop making things up to hide behind.what i've said is credentialed "scientists" who promote young earth creationism invariably have demonstratable personal agendas, which is just stating the obvious.

While athiest 'scholars' who refute the age of the books of the Bible do so because they make the assumption that no prophecies can be fortold.Which is almost exactly what you are accusing the religious scholars of doingThis is also why there is no debating with you. You are completely blinded to the notion that there is only one answer, and anyone who disagrees must be using faulty logic or bias to blind themselves from what you 'know' to be truth.All while admitting that you guys don't really have any idea where everything came from, but you are sure it didn't come from God.