Nl Internet Kids And Horse

[Suited_Up 2]

Daniel: I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into here but I'll take the bait. I'm raising in this situation because the bring-in already took my chips and I'm the one holding the jacks, so I make my opps pay to see another card.

You lose.

[HighwayStar 8]

Daniel: I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into here but I'll take the bait. I'm raising in this situation because the bring-in already took my chips and I'm the one holding the jacks, so I make my opps pay to see another card.

You crazy nl internet kid.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Daniel: I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into here but I'll take the bait. I'm raising in this situation because the bring-in already took my chips and I'm the one holding the jacks, so I make my opps pay to see another card.

This being your very first post is so epic on so many levels.

[mbreon 0]

Daniel: I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into here but I'll take the bait. I'm raising in this situation because the bring-in already took my chips and I'm the one holding the jacks, so I make my opps pay to see another card.

Good one VB

[ahosang 0]

You have the right idea about being active in a three handed game. But you chose the wrong hand to do it with.

Ok, steve7stud, what is your definitive list of hands to call in this scenario with?

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Napoleon Complex.

[Matt_Damon 0]

Matt Damon.

[Lili Von Shtupp 0]

Matt Damon.

I'm soooo tired.

[Plus one 0]

OK let's walk through one of the hands he played: Stud 8 3 handed he is the bring in with (JJ) 2. A Ks completes and a Qc calls. What do you do there?

I will go with occams razor on this one. This simple little scenario has generated many pages of thoughtful analyzing. Anyone of which is only correct depending on which cards are coming up. Since ghames arent played in slow motion,I doubt anyone can really consider all options before acting. Back to good old occam. Since I prolly arent best hi, and need 4 cards for low, cya.

[grocery_mony 8]

Matt Damon.

OMG I thought you were dead.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Ok, I'm going to preface this with the fact that I owe a ton to daniel. Over the limited discussions we've had, he's given me very timely advice. I wouldn't be posting this if I didn't think what he was saying right now was like trying to explain inducement bets vs regs at 5-10 HU no limit to someone right after you teach them what small and big blinds are. Advocating such a thin line here to someone who truly sucks at stud 8 is only going to confuse them more / make them worse.That said, a lot of people asked me to repost this here. It's blunt, but it's how I feel.I think daniel is out of his mind if he thinks his advice in it is actually applicable to a non-nosebleed game. He goes back and forth from making the assumptions that you can just magically win a bloated pot if you pick up a few low scare cards to advocating not betting when we hit the perfect scare cards for our hand. From hoping we can get some free cards to betting ourselves even though we know we're behind. WTF sir, WTF.I know he thinks stud 8 is his best game but basically he's just puffing up his chest and trying to be the daniel negreanu that knows what you ate for breakfast with his comments. When his argument boils down to playing the hand out, knowing you have to put in a ton of bets against the hands you're probably facing, hoping to bink a 2 outer that might not be good in an extremely marginal spot, I just kinda have to give up. If his comments are based on knowing the exact players in the hand and how they play, then discussing it in a vacuum is pretty pointless. If he's making decisions based on the current dynamic in the high stakes game described, then again, why try and say that the plays he's advocating are right or wrong with very little grey? I have no doubt at all that I've played more stud 8 in the last 3 years than he has, probably by a factor of 3-5x, and players at the low or mid stakes simply do not behave like he is saying they will. Since that's where damn near everyone on FCP plays, he's just confusing people with his advice.There's no question at all that Daniel is a way better mixed games player than I am (and I am a winning player), but I just hate how black and white he seems to think some of these decisions are. Maybe the line he's advocating (specifically the decision to play the hand at all) is profitable in this game, but it's not in most. I also want to reiterate the incorrect use of current odds on 3rd. It's very misreprestative of the true odds you are facing because of how many cards you have to see and probable bets you have to put in to know if the hand is developing in a way that fits your only profitable options. It's just plain bad math.

I here what you are saying, but I did mention that it was a $100-$200 game when asked. I also agree with what you are saying in terms of not having the bluff potential in smaller limit games. You are correct, I'm discussing the hands assuming it's high limit poker and in the future I'll be more clear when giving advice that should be either specific to high or low limit games. My advice in a $100-$200 game is correct, because the low card does give you the added value of stealing the pot with scare cards. Eliminate that, and folding is definitely the best option.... so in other words NO, I'm not losing my mind lol. Not yet anyway :-)

[DanielNegreanu 141]

But if his internet friend thinks raising 3rd is standard, which everyone from DN to the people who don't play stud 8 thought was terrible, is he ready for this advice? You're skipping a *lot* of steps in the learning process of the game. Just because he's an innately good poker player, he is clearly several steps behind the point where this would be +EV advice.Thanks for organizing it Bob.

It's funny you should say that, because my advice to him was to fold ALL of those types of hands in a similar situation until he gets more comfortable with the game.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

The PLO hand: Once you check-raise the flop and your opponent calls, that's usually a sign that he isn't really going anywhere. If he was, he'd dump it on the flop. The 10 may "look" like a brick but there is a good chance it's not. You have no hearts in your hand, plus the 10 could give him additional straight outs. My point is, I don't think he folds enough on the turn to make betting profitable. Worst case scenario is you bet the pot, he raises the pot, and you've essentially cost yourself twice as much to see the river card in a spot where you have to hit. If the stacks where much deeper, you could make a serious argument for double barreling the turn, and then betting big on the river if the board pairs, repping Queens full. As is, you don't have enough money behind you to take that risk. The other benefit to checking the turn is that your opponent, if he just had, say, A-A-7-9 may be happy to check the turn as well, giving you a free card in a spot where it just doesn't look like you'll be able to bluff the hand through. Long term, check-call the turn saves you the most money. Yes, it certainly gives away information, but as long as you learn to balance your range against your opponents by sometimes checking strong in these spots, the information you give away won't be as important as the fact that you'll save money by getting a cheaper draw. This advice applies to PLO at any stakes, in fact, I think even more so to lower limit games where players tend to be less aggressive and also down lay down hands as often.

[looshle 6]

I'd be delighted to play you in HU stud8 nakedcowboy, let's set it up.

cue popcorn

[DanielNegreanu 141]

One more stud 8 hand that he played:$100-$200 3 handed:9s limps inAs raises You were the bring in with the 8d and (10d Jh) in the hole. What would you do on third street?

[DanielNegreanu 141]

OK, the answer to the next stud 8 on third street should be fold. That's pretty clear, or at least it should be. This was the hand that had me REALLY shaking my head when my friend CALLED the raise on 3rd! That's awful for several reasons. If you ever decide to play a 3 card straight that needs an inside filler, you DON'T do that when it appears very likely that someone in the hand has a pair of the card you need! The 9 most likely has split 9's. The other cardinal sin here is playing a high straight draw, ESPECIALLY against an Ace raising. That is just awfully bad. Now on 4th street:As Kh9s Qh(10d Jh) 8d 5d The Ace bets again, what do you do now?

[DanielNegreanu 141]

If the Ace can bet into your suited low board, that should mean one thing to you and one thing only: he has split aces, or better. Some guys are crazy enough to bet again here as a bluff, but that's bad. You know have a three flush and it's the cheap street, but calling here is a bad idea. I'd dump in on 4th. My guy calls and the 9 folds. Now on 5th street:(10d Jh) 8d 5d 10c(x-x) As Kh 7d Ace bets... what now?

[DanielNegreanu 141]

He is showing strength and likely had Aces if not aces up. Now, even if he WAS bluffing with a three card low, he's just made a low draw too, so even when you make the right call and your 10's are good, he has two cards to hit his low. FOLD! My guy paid it off all the way and looked at Aces and Kings... like I said, simple concepts... over his head!

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Lol, you've got to give me time to answer! But yes those are all pretty trivial folds. Thanks for all the responses daniel. It seems we were more on the same page than I thought. I hope this was just someone from your table at legends and not a horse.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Lol, you've got to give me time to answer! But yes those are all pretty trivial folds. Thanks for all the responses daniel. It seems we were more on the same page than I thought. I hope this was just someone from your table at legends and not a horse.

He's learning all with his own money and decided to start at $100-$200 and recently said to me, "So you probably won't be surprised that I've been losing in the mixed game." LOL, I was NOT surprised to say the least as I'd discussed poker with him before, so I had him do a video for me and send it to me so I can review what he's doing wrong. He's playing all kinds of hands like 8-9-10 and big pairs in stud 8 in all the wrong spots and having no clue where he's at. Most new people to the game have that problem of just not knowing where they are at. I told him to never play anymore 3 card high straight draws under any circumstances and to also abandon big pairs for the most part. It's the safest way to learn to play stud 8: sticking to three card low hands and also split pairs with a baby a la 7-7-6, although, those can be tricky too for a newb.

[rcgs59 15]

would love to see a HU match with you Daniel and Naked_Cowboy playing stud8

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

would love to see a HU match with you Daniel and Naked_Cowboy playing stud8

please stop, this is just dumb. I play poker to make money. Like jdags famously said, I didn't get where I am by playing Daniel negreanu.Also, i think a hand like 7-6-7 is a great transition type hand for thinking about stud 8 because of all the ways it can develop. If I had been more cautious with big pairs in stud 8 I might have a bracelet instead of a ft bubble

[Suited_Up 2]

please stop

That covered it, you didn't need any more.