New To Poker. In Need Of Guidance!

[Balloon guy 158]

What is a fish?

Too easy

[trznk 0]

I am the fish on this thread

[JSpencer 0]

Clearly my point was lost in translation....Oh well.

[Tehtoe 3]

When you get good at poker, the last person you are going to want to play is a fish.

Nothing to really misunderstand there.

[JSpencer 0]

Nothing to really misunderstand there.

Perhaps a bad choice of words, but were corrected to "much more frustrating" after the first post questioning it. I'd really hate to keep arguing about this, especially when it drastically strays from the topic of the thread.Feel free to PM me and tell me how wrong I am though.

[Suited_Up 2]

Rakeback helps.:)But no, it does.

[Canary3 1]

Rakeback helps.:)But no, it does.

subpar performance IMO.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

Playing people who will call a raise with trash hands like Q 5 preflop versus your AK suited/ AA/ KK/ ect.. and outdraw on you is a very frustrating feeling. People who play in such a way take way more chances that they shouldn't, which results in them getting lucky more often than better players, which results in you seeing many more bad beats than if you played with people who knew what they were doing.

yes, at all chances, play with Phil Ivey and Tom Dwan because their straightforward way of play will allow for less frustration.Don't ever sit with bad players. They can be so frustrating, calling your all ins with Q high when you hold Aces.

[Suited_Up 2]

subpar performance IMO.

No sense in acting like a salesman. Just putting it out there.

[donk4life 34]

Clearly my point was lost in translation....Oh well.

You know what types of players make these "points"? Fish. You can't beat lower limits and believe the only reason that's the case is because bad players don't respect your raises and occasionally suck out on you with a ridiculous hand. Those are the hands you remember, you don't remember the hands where you won a huge pot when someone played like an idiot against you. You continue to find excuses on why you can't beat lower limits, blaming running bad and even a more ridiculous excuse of blaming bad players. You don't take the time to fully understand the game, you blame everyone else but yourself. Of course, you hold to the belief that because you're not beating bad players at this limit so surely you'll beat the better players at the higher limits because they have a more predictable game and it's easier to exploit. When in fact, if you were to move up to those limits you would be the player the others would pinpoint on.This game would not be worth playing if everyone was on the same playing field. Every player who has any concept of this game realizes that the money comes from playing those with a far inferior skill level. So stop telling us and new members that the true money lies in players who have a great grasp of this game. It's simply not the case.

[JSpencer 0]

You know what types of players make these "points"? Fish. You can't beat lower limits and believe the only reason that's the case is because bad players don't respect your raises and occasionally suck out on you with a ridiculous hand. Those are the hands you remember, you don't remember the hands where you won a huge pot when someone played like an idiot against you. You continue to find excuses on why you can't beat lower limits, blaming running bad and even a more ridiculous excuse of blaming bad players. You don't take the time to fully understand the game, you blame everyone else but yourself. Of course, you hold to the belief that because you're not beating bad players at this limit so surely you'll beat the better players at the higher limits because they have a more predictable game and it's easier to exploit. When in fact, if you were to move up to those limits you would be the player the others would pinpoint on.This game would not be worth playing if everyone was on the same playing field. Every player who has any concept of this game realizes that the money comes from playing those with a far inferior skill level. So stop telling us and new members that the true money lies in players who have a great grasp of this game. It's simply not the case.

I constantly profit in low limits actually, I said it was frustrating. Clearly you have some security issues due to you incessant need to try prove a point in an argument that has already been dropped. You obviously missed almost everything that was said so I don't even know why I am bothering replying to your post. Never once said that true money lies with players that have a grasp of the game, and honestly I'd challenge you to point out where I did. My only point was that playing "bad players" was reasonably more frustrating because bad beats were much more prevalent. Next time you attempt to try to argue with me perhaps you should first get a clue what exactly you are arguing about. I understand that this is the internet and it brings out the "WooHoo I get to be an ******* anonymously!" feeling in everyone, but the very least you could do is stop derailing a thread simply because I made a statement you disagreed with in an attempt to help someone.

[donk4life 34]

When you get good at poker, the last person you are going to want to play is a fish.

I constantly profit in low limits actually, I said it was frustrating. Clearly you have some security issues due to you incessant need to try prove a point in an argument that has already been dropped. You obviously missed almost everything that was said so I don't even know why I am bothering replying to your post. Never once said that true money likes with players that have a grasp of the game, and honestly I'd challenge you to point out where I did. My only point was that playing "bad players" was reasonably more frustrating because bad beats were much more prevalent. Next time you attempt to try to argue with me perhaps you should first get a clue what exactly you are arguing about. I understand that this is the internet and it brings out the "WooHoo I get to be an ******* anonymously!" feeling in everyone, but the very least you could do is stop derailing a thread simply because I made a statement you disagreed with in an attempt to help someone.

That to me is basically saying you want to play better players in order to make money, perhaps myself and everyone else on this board misinterpreted what you said.Why do you think I even brought up the issue? Why do you think every one brought up the issue? Because it's flawed thinking, I brought it up in this thread because a new member was trying to reach out for help. That's what this forum is here for, to improve, to learn, to understand. When someone says a completely ridiculous comment that in no way benefits people of this forum, it should be brought to their attention, especially if it is a new member.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I constantly profit in low limits actually, I said it was frustrating. Clearly you have some security issues due to you incessant need to try prove a point in an argument that has already been dropped. You obviously missed almost everything that was said so I don't even know why I am bothering replying to your post. Never once said that true money likes with players that have a grasp of the game, and honestly I'd challenge you to point out where I did. My only point was that playing "bad players" was reasonably more frustrating because bad beats were much more prevalent. Next time you attempt to try to argue with me perhaps you should first get a clue what exactly you are arguing about. I understand that this is the internet and it brings out the "WooHoo I get to be an ******* anonymously!" feeling in everyone, but the very least you could do is stop derailing a thread simply because I made a statement you disagreed with in an attempt to help someone.

Nobody has taken shots at you but have taken shots at the statements that you made and your attempt to justify them.One of the first things that you said to a new player was

When you get good at poker, the last person you are going to want to play is a fish.

This is just a really bad thing to say to somebody and even after you qualified it by saying it can be more frustrating that is only true if your mindset is not that of a successful player.Please just take things people have said to you at heart and re-examine some of the way you think about poker.Poker is a game of skill differential there is no finite skill involved.As you get better what you will realize is that some of those players who you think are good players because you never see them do something out of the ordinary are in fact very mediocre and not very good while some of those players who before you were good who you thought were fish are in fact much better players than you are and are doing things that you just didn't understand.

[Suited_Up 2]

Bob'nd!

[JSpencer 0]

Nobody has taken shots at you but have taken shots at the statements that you made and your attempt to justify them.One of the first things that you said to a new player was This is just a really bad thing to say to somebody and even after you qualified it by saying it can be more frustrating that is only true if your mindset is not that of a successful player.Please just take things people have said to you at heart and re-examine some of the way you think about poker.Poker is a game of skill differential there is no finite skill involved.As you get better what you will realize is that some of those players who you think are good players because you never see them do something out of the ordinary are in fact very mediocre and not very good while some of those players who before you were good who you thought were fish are in fact much better players than you are and are doing things that you just didn't understand.

A reasonable post, much to my satisfaction as it actually pertained to what I said. Though the point that I was trying to convey was that it is frustrating, and while that may be the true mindset of an "unsuccessful" player, I've seen numerous successful players both on this site as well as in real life discuss how frustrated they were over the constant bad beats in a tournament and how the other guys weren't even playing well. It's quite reasonable to say that when you are playing poker the way it is meant to be player and on your A-game, it is much more frustrating to lose to someone who has no idea of what they are doing than someone who actually made a decent play.People may disagree with this, but that is really none of my concern, as it is simply my opinion.Obviously a lot of people agree with it after some googling work.http://www.pokerjunkie.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13853http://www.toppoker.org/poker-strategies/p...ng-fish-ph.htmlhttp://www.toppoker.org/poker-strategies/station-one-dm.htmlhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/...tank-t2224.htmlhttp://surlypokergnome.blogspot.com/2009/06/fish-in-sea.htmlhttp://www.notedpokerauthority.com/tag/fish-schoolingCountless other examples, but I don't really have the time to post them all. I'm out for now, but I'll be "certain" to reply to every post when I return.

[Suited_Up 2]

Poker players get frustrated at every level. It happens at every level. In fact, the higher you get, the more odd people play.The end.

[donk4life 34]

Finding a bunch of random posts from different forums claiming that poker is frustrating when you lose to bad players really does nothing for your argument. Yes, no matter the level every player gets frustrated at a bad beat (unless your dinkdonk). But that's not what we are arguing. You claimed that as you get better as a player you want to play fish less, when that is simply not the case. We have given you countless reasons, Bob said it in the most clear, calm and concise manner possible. Sure it's frustrating, but bad beats happen. I'm sure you've dealt your share to opponents, just move on and play another hand.

[whatgreatis 0]

You don't give a fuck, I don't give a fuck.

[Dratj 0]

JSpencer, Give up dude, you are clearly wrong. You agree that playing fish is profitable so how can that be frustrating? In some convulated way, you have convinced yourself that you are right.

[JSpencer 0]

You don't give a fuck, I don't give a fuck.

Possibly the best post in this thread.

[KingJames 11]

A reasonable post, much to my satisfaction as it actually pertained to what I said. Though the point that I was trying to convey was that it is frustrating, and while that may be the true mindset of an "unsuccessful" player, I've seen numerous successful players both on this site as well as in real life discuss how frustrated they were over the constant bad beats in a tournament and how the other guys weren't even playing well. It's quite reasonable to say that when you are playing poker the way it is meant to be player and on your A-game, it is much more frustrating to lose to someone who has no idea of what they are doing than someone who actually made a decent play.People may disagree with this, but that is really none of my concern, as it is simply my opinion.Obviously a lot of people agree with it after some googling work.http://www.pokerjunkie.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13853http://www.toppoker.org/poker-strategies/p...ng-fish-ph.htmlhttp://www.toppoker.org/poker-strategies/station-one-dm.htmlhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/...tank-t2224.htmlhttp://surlypokergnome.blogspot.com/2009/06/fish-in-sea.htmlhttp://www.notedpokerauthority.com/tag/fish-schoolingCountless other examples, but I don't really have the time to post them all. I'm out for now, but I'll be "certain" to reply to every post when I return.

"Emotionally, a player who manages to "suck out" to win a couple of big pots from you can be hard to take. The truth is that Calling Stations are exactly the players we should look for in a game. These players are the main reason poker can be a lucrative endeavor. I've heard a lot of players complaining about how much they hate playing against a bunch of "fish". They claim that these poor players are more difficult to beat than players who actually do know what they are doing. If you are one of the players who would truly prefer to play against better opposition, well, just stop it. I mean really, you have got to change your mentality. That idea, the idea that it is easier to beat good players than bad players is absolutely incorrect. It is now and always has been erroneous judgment. You simply have got to change your mind about playing against poor players. Statistically speaking it is impossible for a player to gain an edge by consistently taking the worst of it. It just cannot happen."This is taken from the 3rd article... it argues against your point...This is a level?

[savagerebel 0]

Need a coach for .10/.25?

[KingJames 11]

Jspencer,I know you are taking a lot of flack, and as much as it sucks, it's for the best.When I first joined this forum, I was TERRIBLE at teh poker. I thought I was great. I would beat my friends in home games and I would watch poker on TV and with the help of hole-card cameras, I could make very good decisions. It all seemed so easy.The way I thought about the game, and specific hands was terrible. I thought that winning the pot> extracting value. Along with numerous other thought-processes that were wrong. I remember I responded in a thread in the NL cash game section and I made some really, really dumb comments about how I would have played the hand. My thinking was wrong and the way I presented it was stupid. Zach (Zach6668) E-smacked the shit out of me. He very bluntly told me that my thinking was flawed and if I didn't change the way I thought about the game I would forever be a losing player.I took that to heart. I starting reading, a lot! I've read so many poker books, I've read, and re-read so many threads and posts from players who are clearly doing things right. I lurk a lot more than I post, but I've been soaking up info from FCP and now, 3+ years later, I'm a much improved player. I didn't want to accept it at first, but I was a losing player and now through lots of studying and especially FCP I am a winning player. Not a huge baller in any sense, but I beat low-limit games both online and live.There are a lot of successful and insightful players here at FCP and they are kind enough to share knowledge and help us newbs out...

[gmanshade 0]

Well, let's see. Relevant advice for poker. Although psychoanalysts disagree about many topics there is a consensus that gambling derives from a masochistic impulse, a desire to harm yourself. The psychological struggle for the gambler is the battle to resist the impulse to lose. In the professional poker world you will note that every professional poker player, although they are an overwhelming winner in at least one game, inevitably seeks out other games to gamble in which they are not proficient. Inevitably it will be possible to go broke in an alternative game. Some of these games include professional sports betting (Mike Matusow, Doyle Brunson), prop betting (Daniel Negreanu, Ram Vaswani, Tom Dwan), pit games (T.J. Cloutier, Josh Arieh, Scotty Nguyen), and high stakes poker (Gus Hansen, Phil Laak, Dustin Woolf). The best thing about poker is that there is always a game going and you can sit down and play. The worst thing about poker is that it is a concentration camp for the maladapted, emotionally impaired outsiders of the world.gmanshade

[No_Neck 0]

Well, let's see. Relevant advice for poker. Although psychoanalysts disagree about many topics there is a consensus that gambling derives from a masochistic impulse, a desire to harm yourself. The psychological struggle for the gambler is the battle to resist the impulse to lose. In the professional poker world you will note that every professional poker player, although they are an overwhelming winner in at least one game, inevitably seeks out other games to gamble in which they are not proficient. Inevitably it will be possible to go broke in an alternative game. Some of these games include professional sports betting (Mike Matusow, Doyle Brunson), prop betting (Daniel Negreanu, Ram Vaswani, Tom Dwan), pit games (T.J. Cloutier, Josh Arieh, Scotty Nguyen), and high stakes poker (Gus Hansen, Phil Laak, Dustin Woolf). The best thing about poker is that there is always a game going and you can sit down and play. The worst thing about poker is that it is a concentration camp for the maladapted, emotionally impaired outsiders of the world.gmanshade

don't forget about the people who buy ProPlayer energy drinks for their wives anniversary.