Zealous Donkey 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 You're implying that the military just randomly chose a house and guessed right. The lack of direct confirmation does not mean it was a "guess". There was plenty of evidence which led them to believe he was there, and they didn't locate this place by "luck" but rather by years of diligent and difficult intelligence work in tracking the couriers etc. The discussion was not about whether Obama did something "special", it was about to what degree he could be considered responsible for what happened. I think there are many ways in which he could be considered responsible, including making the decision to do all of this within pakistan.He deserves credit for precisely the things you mentioned, but in his speech he gave pakistan some credit, which is bullshit. He probably is right to play it the way he is but I hope behind the scenes he is in there face. OBL was found living in the Pakistani equivilant of West Point. He had to have a lot of help high up in Pakistan. BTW Obama also deserves credit for keeping this thing under wraps until it was over. Nice Job! Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Obama of course deserves credit for this, just as any other president would. We'll never know all the decisions that had to be made behind closed doors, we'll never know what intelligence they were based on, we'll never know what his choices were. We do know that he early on claimed that capturing Bin Laden was a priority, we do know that we since the campaign cited Pakistan as a central focus of his antiterrorism efforts. We do know that the primary intelligence leading to Bin Laden's death came last year but was never 100% certain. We do know that Obama made a choice ordered, as only he can, a raid against this compound in Pakistan without their permission or without even telling them, and we do know that this raid got the job done.I'm not saying that Bush or McCain would not have had the same result with the same intelligence. But they weren't in the White House when Bin Laden was killed, and it wasn't their orders which took him out. I'm not saying how hard or easy it was for Obama, how simple or troubling the choices were, but when the leader states a goal, walks it through to the end, and gets the job done, you give him credit. Assigning a percentage to that or whatever seems silly.Reports are that Obama and the situation room had live video and audio of the raid in real time. It must have been incredibly intense, particularly when one of the helicopters appeared to malfunction. And apparently there was, as one would expect, a loud cheer when the word came over that Bin Laden had been killed and identified. Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Obama of course deserves credit for this, just as any other president would. We'll never know all the decisions that had to be made behind closed doors, we'll never know what intelligence they were based on, we'll never know what his choices were. We do know that he early on claimed that capturing Bin Laden was a priority, we do know that we since the campaign cited Pakistan as a central focus of his antiterrorism efforts. We do know that the primary intelligence leading to Bin Laden's death came last year but was never 100% certain. We do know that Obama made a choice ordered, as only he can, a raid against this compound in Pakistan without their permission or without even telling them, and we do know that this raid got the job done.I'm not saying that Bush or McCain would not have had the same result with the same intelligence. But they weren't in the White House when Bin Laden was killed, and it wasn't their orders which took him out. I'm not saying how hard or easy it was for Obama, how simple or troubling the choices were, but when the leader states a goal, walks it through to the end, and gets the job done, you give him credit. Assigning a percentage to that or whatever seems silly.Reports are that Obama and the situation room had live video and audio of the raid in real time. It must have been incredibly intense, particularly when one of the helicopters appeared to malfunction. And apparently there was, as one would expect, a loud cheer when the word came over that Bin Laden had been killed and identified.I always prefer to get positive results then have the politicians fight over who deserves the credit. Clinton was a master at implimenting republican ideas, and, after they got results, claimed credit for them, (and with the help of the media convincing a significant number of people). Nothing wrong with that at all, that is what they are supposed to do. I do expect some on the left to be completely classless in this, but so what. OBL will be just as dead. Link to post Share on other sites
Spademan 94 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 His speech sucked. Choppy and halting.Especially at the end where I suspect he had a seizure that caused a tourettes-like repetition of the word God. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 His speech sucked. Choppy and halting.Especially at the end where I suspect he had a seizure that caused a tourettes-like repetition of the word God.Really hate that he is required to say that at the end. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Really hate that he is required to say that at the end.What makes you think he felt he has to say it?Is it not the correct thing to say if he believes it? Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Obama of course deserves credit for this, just as any other president would. We'll never know all the decisions that had to be made behind closed doors, we'll never know what intelligence they were based on, we'll never know what his choices were. We do know that he early on claimed that capturing Bin Laden was a priority, we do know that we since the campaign cited Pakistan as a central focus of his antiterrorism efforts. We do know that the primary intelligence leading to Bin Laden's death came last year but was never 100% certain. We do know that Obama made a choice ordered, as only he can, a raid against this compound in Pakistan without their permission or without even telling them, and we do know that this raid got the job done.I'm not saying that Bush or McCain would not have had the same result with the same intelligence. But they weren't in the White House when Bin Laden was killed, and it wasn't their orders which took him out. I'm not saying how hard or easy it was for Obama, how simple or troubling the choices were, but when the leader states a goal, walks it through to the end, and gets the job done, you give him credit. Assigning a percentage to that or whatever seems silly.Reports are that Obama and the situation room had live video and audio of the raid in real time. It must have been incredibly intense, particularly when one of the helicopters appeared to malfunction. And apparently there was, as one would expect, a loud cheer when the word came over that Bin Laden had been killed and identified.QFT Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Yeah, plus the Democrats can find plenty of ways to screw stuff up between now and election time. It's what political parties do.However, like I said in the other thread, I think it makes it a few percent more likely he gets re-elected.I think it would make him a LOT more likely to get re-elected if he announced that this means immediate withdrawal of our troops, the end to the TSA, the end of the PATRIOT Act, and the end of spying on US citizens without a warrant.If he announces those things within the next two months and does them before the election, I will vote for him next time. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 What makes you think he felt he has to say it?Is it not the correct thing to say if he believes it?As to the first question, it's a tradition now and people expect it. As to the second question, no, I do not think his religious beliefs have any place in an official government speech. Link to post Share on other sites
Spademan 94 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 As to the first question, it's a tradition now and people expect it. As to the second question, no, I do not think his religious beliefs have any place in an official government speech.Given this speech, you'd think he would get that. Link to post Share on other sites
Skeleton Jelly 2 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 As to the first question, it's a tradition now and people expect it. Time article about that. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 As to the first question, it's a tradition now and people expect it. As to the second question, no, I do not think his religious beliefs have any place in an official government speech. So he is not afforded the same rights under the first amendment as the rest of us?Congress shall pass no law...prohibiting the free exercise ...of religion Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 So he is not afforded the same rights under the first amendment as the rest of us?Congress shall pass no law...prohibiting the free exercise ...of religion You'll be singing a different tune when an Atheist wins. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 You'll be singing a different tune when an Atheist wins.Haha..I'll be too old to sing then.I mean the only place an atheist ever wins is in communist countries.As hard as the democrats are trying, we ain't there yet. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 So he is not afforded the same rights under the first amendment as the rest of us?Congress shall pass no law...prohibiting the free exercise ...of religion Oh, ok, so it's ok if a judge opens every session of federal court with "Allahu akbar"? Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Oh, ok, so it's ok if a judge opens every session of federal court with "Allahu akbar"?We're a Christian nation silly. Link to post Share on other sites
Roll the Bones 74 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 We're a Christian nation silly.Yeah, but thankfully we've learned since then that the serious pursuit of knowledge isn't compatable with bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Yeah, but thankfully we've learned since then that the serious pursuit of knowledge isn't compatable with bullshit. I guess you haven't followed politics lately. Link to post Share on other sites
Roll the Bones 74 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I guess you haven't followed politics lately.The reason they call them "new athiests" is because the Catholics can't burn them at the stake anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The reason they call them "new athiests" is because the Catholics can't burn them at the stake anymore.I know..can't smoke on public beaches anymore either. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 We're a Christian nation silly.If the majority of people have blonde hair are we a "blonde" nation as well? Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If the majority of people have blonde hair are we a "blonde" nation as well?Only if the country was founded on blonde principles. Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 Only if the country was founded on blonde principles."We the People of the United States, in order to form a totally awesome union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, and provide for the some radical new malls, do ordain and establish this Konstat Constute Candit thingy for the United States of America. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 So he is not afforded the same rights under the first amendment as the rest of us?Congress shall pass no law...prohibiting the free exercise ...of religion Saying he shouldn't do it is not the same as saying the state should enforce that he not do it. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 If the majority of people have blonde hair are we a "blonde" nation as well?So you want the red heads to have freedom?NEVER Link to post Share on other sites
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