The Official Obama Scorecard Thread

[dapokerbum 0]

Yea...cause in our litigious society, we should all expect personal responisiblity to rise to the challenge

Why shouldn't we expect people to rise to that challenge. Are you that disenchanted at where we are at as a society that you would rather a governing body decide what you do rather than yourself? Well I am sorry, but I believe that society can rise to that challenge and they should rise to that challenge.

[hblask 1]

PEOPLE WILL BUY DANGEROUS EXPLODING COFFEE POTS! PEOPLE ARE TOO STUPID TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES!FOR GOD'S SAKE, BAN THE COFFEE POTS!

[LincolnK 1]

PEOPLE WILL BUY DANGEROUS EXPLODING COFFEE POTS! PEOPLE ARE TOO STUPID TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES!FOR GOD'S SAKE, BAN THE COFFEE POTS!

this is a movement I could get behind. coffee has negative health effects. I don't need coffee, so nobody should have it. that's what the government is there for, to tell other people what they're allowed to do. just say NO to coffee (it works for drugs and premarital sex, right?) think of the children!Really though, we should start this. I'll count it a win if one person recognizes the parallel to anything else. I look forward to Big CoffeePotMakers coming after us.

[Balloon guy 158]

I think my line is based on common sense.Pot is no worse than nicotine or alcohol so it should be in.If you can make an argument that LSD is no big deal, then let me hear it. I really dont think you can make reasonable arguments for heroin or meth or crack that you can for pot.

See, I actually want all drugs to be legal. Instead of fighting tooth and nail against all these drugs lets find a middle ground where it makes sense. Pot should be legal yes. Cocaine I think should too. It is when I start to get to Heroin and Crack and Meth that the line gets a little crazy. However, if you can educate the masses about the dangers behind these drugs and let them know what they are going to be getting themselves into ... and they still decide to stick a needle in their arm. then i say let em. Let them do so much that they waste their life and you can tell the next person deciding this what happened to them. I mean why not. Sometimes people need to find out for themselves before they believe it.I say screw em. If you really want to destroy your life ... then do it! There are alchoholics that are allowed to do this so why not heroin!

So Cane, how do you respond to someone that wants heroin and crack legalized?And Dapokerbum, let's remove all speed limits on all roads. The war on speeders isn't working, everyone speeds. And people will figure out a safe speed for them and it will all work itself out.Once that works, I will get behind your legalize all drugs idea.

[hblask 1]

And Dapokerbum, let's remove all speed limits on all roads. The war on speeders isn't working, everyone speeds. And people will figure out a safe speed for them and it will all work itself out.

Driving carelessly on public roads has a high potential to harm others. Taking drugs in your own home does not.And yes, I would support laws that punish people for leaving their house and harming others due to drug use, just as I do with alcohol use, just in case you are wondering.

[Balloon guy 158]

Driving carelessly on public roads has a high potential to harm others. Taking drugs in your own home does not.And yes, I would support laws that punish people for leaving their house and harming others due to drug use, just as I do with alcohol use, just in case you are wondering.

So there is no impact on the family of a cocaine user?Or a tweeker?I mean it turned Spicoli gay...IntoYou think that stuff just happens by itself?Think about it man

[CaneBrain 95]

So Cane, how do you respond to someone that wants heroin and crack legalized?

"No."Seriously, you cant lead a functional life on heroin or crack. Also, drugs that have a serious physical addiction are inherently more dangerous to society. People will rob and kill to feed a smack/crack addiction. Nobody is robbing a 7-11 because they cant afford their pot.Drugs that are linked to violence and increased crime are different. So are drugs that come with dangerous (and violent) physical addictions.I want to legalize pot because I have never heard anyone come up with a reasonable argument as to why pot is worse than alcohol or cigarettes. Its relative. If booze is legal, why not pot? Whats the difference?Conversely, you can make an argument why crack or heroin or meth is worse than booze or cigs in about 10 seconds.Admittedly, i would not know what to do about magic mushrooms. That would be tough to deal with. I would just start with legalizing pot because filling jails with potheads and pot dealers is dumb and expensive. Why worry about where to draw the line anyway? Pot should not be illegal. So decriminalize it. Worry about other stuff later.

[Balloon guy 158]

Driving carelessly on public roads has a high potential to harm others. Taking drugs in your own home does not.And yes, I would support laws that punish people for leaving their house and harming others due to drug use, just as I do with alcohol use, just in case you are wondering.

Shooting eightballs while flying a plane does too.

[Loismustdie 0]

"No."Seriously, you cant lead a functional life on heroin or crack. Also, drugs that have a serious physical addiction are inherently more dangerous to society. People will rob and kill to feed a smack/crack addiction. Nobody is robbing a 7-11 because they cant afford their pot.Drugs that are linked to violence and increased crime are different. So are drugs that come with dangerous (and violent) physical addictions.I want to legalize pot because I have never heard anyone come up with a reasonable argument as to why pot is worse than alcohol or cigarettes. Its relative. If booze is legal, why not pot? Whats the difference?Conversely, you can make an argument why crack or heroin or meth is worse than booze or cigs in about 10 seconds.Admittedly, i would not know what to do about magic mushrooms. That would be tough to deal with. I would just start with legalizing pot because filling jails with potheads and pot dealers is dumb and expensive. Why worry about where to draw the line anyway? Pot should not be illegal. So decriminalize it. Worry about other stuff later.

I actually agree with Cain on this one, the line needs to be redrawn. Pot is harmless.

[CaneBrain 95]

Shooting eightballs while flying a plane does too.

did you even make it to the 2nd line of his post or did you get tired from eye strain. sheesh.trying to use an oil tanker to shave some cubes off an iceberg for your 5th martini is bad too. Ask the crew of the Exxon Valdez.

[Sheiky 0]

I totally missed this over the weekend....I read somewhere that the money supply has increased by 60% in the last 8-12 months. Of course, there are lots of measures of "money supply", so it's hard to get a straight answer about what it all really means, but at this point it seems pretty clear that the growth in the money supply has far exceeded growth in economic activity. That is the necessary and sufficient condition for inflation.More money, same goods = inflationLess money, same goods = deflation.Government borrowing helps to cause the conditions that lead to inflation, by suppressing the economy while creating political pressure to crank up the presses at the Treasury.We are in an environment where inflation will be very difficult to avoid.

There's like absolutely no way the money supply of any measurement has increased 60% in the past 8-12 months.The freeze in credit markets will have slowed down the growth of the money supply somewhat, and presumably government action will have reversed that somewhat. I got this from the fed http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/ which seems reasonable. Personally I do not see British inflation rising above 5% for a long time, America i'm not as certain on (and whatever I say I'm assuming you'll accuse the treasury of hiding the truth) but I would be willing to be $10 or something that it won't rise above 6% in the next two years.

[Balloon guy 158]

did you even make it to the 2nd line of his post or did you get tired from eye strain. sheesh.trying to use an oil tanker to shave some cubes off an iceberg for your 5th martini is bad too. Ask the crew of the Exxon Valdez.

So when Henry equates lifting speed limits to 'driving reckless' it's okayBut if i equate doig any drugs you want to "Shooting 8balls while flying" I'm the one guilty of hyperbole?some people will still drive very responsibily, just like some people will use drugs responsibily, but the ones that don't...justify the laws

[CaneBrain 95]

So when Henry equates lifting speed limits to 'driving reckless' it's okayBut if i equate doig any drugs you want to "Shooting 8balls while flying" I'm the one guilty of hyperbole?some people will still drive very responsibily, just like some people will use drugs resposibily, but the ones that don't...

NO. jeez. did you really read the 2nd line of his post. He said of course he is against using drugs and then being irresponsible in public. No one thinks that some drug users wont be dolts and drive high and they should be punished accordingly. It's like you ignored his qualification.

[Sheiky 0]

I actually agree with Cain on this one, the line needs to be redrawn. Pot is harmless.

I wouldn't call it harmless by any means, but I also agree that it should not be illegal(though I worry about supermarket shelves being filled with pot).Heroin and Cocaine though, I think the people arguing for them to be legal because 'People should be allowed to do whatever the F they want' are being a bit short sighted. These drugs have an insane cost to the community in which they're used, and I believe it is myopic to say that drug addicts are doing it because it's there choice and not because it's an addictive choice. We all make mistakes in life, and I bet the majority of heavy crack/heroin users would say that they wish they had been unable to take the drug in the first place.And please don't say 'We would live in a very grey world is people weren't allowed to make mistakes' because it really has nothing to do with hardcore drug use.

[Balloon guy 158]

NO. jeez. did you really read the 2nd line of his post. He said of course he is against using drugs and then being irresponsible in public. No one thinks that some drug users wont be dolts and drive high and they should be punished accordingly. It's like you ignored his qualification.

No one thinks what?Hurry man I need to know

[dapokerbum 0]

In regards to the speed limit ... yes I think we should have something like the autobahn. Why not? People of course would have to relearn how to drive for this type ofthing to work. We can't have the ****ing grandpas driving 65 in the FAST lane. That's what four lanes should be for and why there is a fast lane. As far as everything else it's not like you start selling crack in your nieghborhood 7-11. Some people really fell the need to be as high as they can. So let's educate them and tell them the harms. I gurantee you there would be some people that would fail epically and be ruined for life ... but guess what ... they chose it. So why not take all the crack heads, meth heads and set them up in their own place and they can do this to their hearts content ... or till their heart blows up! I really don't care. I like freedom of choice. Of course there do have to be laws that protect these people from others. You get caught driving on acid ... then you go to jail. Make it strict so all you conservatives don't have to be worried about some meth head crashing into you while they are test drving their new datsun to make sure it can hit 120. Education will bring this whole thing together. If you were really honest with the kids in the last generation and tried to really educate them on why drugs are bad and what they can do to you then I feel it might have been a more positive impact on people. Instead this JUST SAY NO crap came about. Or "this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs ... any questions" well actually yes, i do have some questions. How come there are people that are contributing members of society that smoke dope. How come there was the whole Hait Ashbury (sp) time when free love and drugs reigned supreme? Why is alchohol a legal substance and acid isn't? Why are cigaretted okay and pot isn't? Why is caffeine legal and cocaine isn't? Answer me you two bit mother ****** with a pan! But they don't, they just tell that this is the way it is and if you don't like it and you try to take it then you get to go to jail or that you are beneath someone who doesn't partake. Well I for one don't buy into it.

[strategy 4]

No one thinks what?Hurry man I need to know

LOLI can't add much, because CB's basically covered everything I would've said. I'll probably never touch the stuff, even if they legalize it...

[Nimue1995 1]

So Cane, how do you respond to someone that wants heroin and crack legalized?And Dapokerbum, let's remove all speed limits on all roads. The war on speeders isn't working, everyone speeds. And people will figure out a safe speed for them and it will all work itself out.Once that works, I will get behind your legalize all drugs idea.

Actually Montana did quite well a speed limit of "safe and prudent" on it's freeways. And if you want an effective education program for kids about meth abuse, check out the Montana Meth Project ads. They're graphic but they've been far more effective than any enforcement has been. http://www.montanameth.org/View_Ads/index.phpEdit: found you couldn't view that one without Quicktime. So here is a link to the Utube versions:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYlwSepW7Bs

[vbnautilus 48]

Yea..cause pot heads have such good paying jobs and can afford to buy things that aren't made by Frito Lays

I buy plenty of things that are not made by Frito Lay.

What about hash?

What about it? Cannibis is not destructive in the way that some other drugs are regardless of potency.

LSD?

Should absolutely be legal. It's not addictive, not physically harmful, and its use is generally self-limiting. It's another victim of government propaganda unfortunately.

The line has to be drawn, and some people will be on the othe side of the line from you.Currently the line is at Nicotine and Alcohol. You just want a different location for the same line, doesn't make your line anything other than preference

There are much better justifications and reasons for drawing the line in almost any other place. The current line is based on politics, money, and race, not based on anything to do with public health or science. If the government is going to infringe on the rights of its people it needs to have a damned good reason, and there simply isn't one for cannibis.

[hblask 1]

So there is no impact on the family of a cocaine user?

Are they being held prisoner? If no, then no effect they are volunteering to endure. If yes, then I would support a law that allows police to free prisoners held against their will. If they are children, then CPS should certainly step in and do their job.But of course, that completely avoids the real issue. The "look at the harm drugs do" is a diversion, because you could say the same about exploding coffee pots. It's interesting that all the people who want to prove that we need drugs illegal use examples that are *CAUSED* by drugs being illegal.

[hblask 1]

Seriously, you cant lead a functional life on heroin or crack.

First of all, this is false. Many, many people use heroin or crack and lead productive lives. Probably some people you know and who you would never suspect use drugs. So, the first step is to stop buying into the lies. The notion that every person that tries heroin or crack or coke becomes a worthless drain on society is the sort of ridiculous, dangerous propaganda that gave us Reefer Madness and the claim that pot makes black people rape white women. It's a flagrant, dangerous lie, that causes a lot of harm. Truth matters.Second, if you are talking about people who develop obsessive addictions, you could say the same about every single pleasurable activity on earth -- somebody has let it destroy their life. Do you think we should ban alcohol, smoking, sex, World of Warcraft, chat rooms, religion.... the list is endless. The notion that "somebody may abuse it, therefore we must ban it" is one of the more dangerous ideas in the world.Third, over the long run, people take the best option the have to fulfill their inner cravings. A certain subset of the population craves altered states, whether it's through drugs, alcohol or religion. This subset, if given a choice of a safe, inexpensive outlet for this craving will choose that option over a dangerous, destructive outlet. If you eliminate the safe choice, they will chose the destructive outlet, causing much harm to society.And then, there are people who are addicted to chaos. These are the really hardcore drug users. They will destroy their lives whether they have access to drugs, or if they are alone on a tropical island. They will find a way to create the chaos they crave. For these people, the question is not whether they will find a way to destroy themselves, the question is whether we want to take our neighborhoods, our safety, and our liberty down with them.

[hblask 1]

Shooting eightballs while flying a plane does too.

I assume that's a drug reference, so yes, I would support a law similar to drunk driving laws for pilots. Now you're just lobbing softballs. Too easy.

[hblask 1]

I got this from the fed http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

OK, fair enough, so it shows M1/M2 has gone up 25% and 14% in the last six month, respectively, during a time of slow economic growth. Another increase like this over the next six months, and double digit inflation would be pretty much inevitable. Will it keep growing like this? I don't know, but Obama doesn't seem to be showing any sign of slowing the flow.

[Balloon guy 158]

Well as long as you hold that LSD heroin and Crack are recreational drugs, and any kid who's dad is addicted choses to stay home and live with him..then you guys win.I can't argue with you.I once knew a guy that tried to set a house on fire because he had been 'over there' once too many times. I was in the house when he did it. There's a reason they say you are frying when you drop acid.If only we had a country that had legalized drugs that could show us a track record of negative impact on the society. Until then we are stuck in the same world that the profs in college who promote communism live in...fantasylandAmersterdam is closing pot houses because of negative impacts on their communities..so find another example

[hblask 1]

If only we had a country that had legalized drugs that could show us a track record of negative impact on the society.

This experiment has been done, here in the United States. Once upon a time, alcohol was legal and relatively safe. Most people used alcohol responsibly, but a few people abused it.Then moralists decided to outlaw it. It led to alcohol becoming extremely dangerous, even in the short run; it encouraged underage drinking; and most importantly, it financed organized crime and gangs. The level of alcohol abuse remained unchanged.We saw how stupid that was, so we changed our mind.Also, at the same time, cocaine and heroin were available at local drugstores. Most people used them responsibly, but a few people abused them.Then the moralists outlawed them. It led to cocaine and heroin becoming extremely dangerous, even in the short run; it encouraged underage drug abuse; and most importantly, it financed organized crime and gangs. The level of drug abuse remained unchanged.We saw how stupid that was, so we changed our mind.Except we forgot that last step.History matters.