Proper Play For This Hu Hand?

[wheezer16 0]

Trying to improve my hu play. Wasn't sure what to do when facing this all-in situation:This was a relatively new opponent and I didn't have much of a read on him, although I did see him play aggressively with 33 on a previous hand.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (2 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($1064)Hero (Button) ($1350)Preflop: Hero is Button with 10, 10Hero raises to $30, SB raises to $100, Hero calls $70Flop: ($200) 8, 7, 6(2 players)SB bets $120, Hero raises to $260, SB raises to $964 (All-In)

[Zach6668 513]

How often was he 3-betting preflop?I 4-bet this a lot, but I generally play guys who have about a half-buy-in.Obviously, any other reads are of the utmost importance in any heads-up hand.

[wheezer16 0]

How often was he 3-betting preflop?I 4-bet this a lot, but I generally play guys who have about a half-buy-in.Obviously, any other reads are of the utmost importance in any heads-up hand.

edit: This was a relatively new opponent and I didn't have much of a read on him, although I did see him play aggressively with 33 on a previous hand.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Trying to improve my hu play. Wasn't sure what to do when facing this all-in situation:This was a relatively new opponent and I didn't have much of a read on him, although I did see him play aggressively with 33 on a previous hand.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (2 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($1064)Hero (Button) ($1350)Preflop: Hero is Button with 10, 10Hero raises to $30, SB raises to $100, Hero calls $70Flop: ($200) 8, 7, 6(2 players)SB bets $120, Hero raises to $260, SB raises to $964 (All-In)

This is a fold without somewhat significant exposure to the villain's playing style.

[tskillz187 0]

4bet pf imo, don't raise/fold the flop.

[wheezer16 0]

4bet pf imo, don't raise/fold the flop.

If he shoves to my 4bet pf, then what?

[SlapStick 0]

please note I do mean to offend you whatsoever, but as cool as it is that you are playing 5/10 with the questions you seem to have about HU, maybe you should move down in limits when practicing. Or get a friend or someone here to play you lower etc and trade notes.If he shoves to the 4 bet, with no notes, I'd say its a fold. Until you get some info on what he is 4-betting etc with probably a fold

[wheezer16 0]

please note I do mean to offend you whatsoever, but as cool as it is that you are playing 5/10 with the questions you seem to have about HU, maybe you should move down in limits when practicing. Or get a friend or someone here to play you lower etc and trade notes.If he shoves to the 4 bet, with no notes, I'd say its a fold. Until you get some info on what he is 4-betting etc with probably a fold

No worries...I'm a full-ring player but will occasionally play someone hu while waiting for a table to fill-up at 2-4, 3/6, and very rarely 5/10.

[Giggidy 0]

No worries...I'm a full-ring player but will occasionally play someone hu while waiting for a table to fill-up at 2-4, 3/6, and very rarely 5/10.

Raise as a bluff, or because you intend to get your stack in

[tskillz187 0]

If he shoves to my 4bet pf, then what?

I guess it depends on what "he played 33 aggressively" means. Was there a lot of raising pf or what? If he's overvaluing hands, then I'd probably call. I'd reraise pf to $250 and be willing to get it in if he's overaggressive. I think Zach and a few others that play HU would be better at answering this. I think the bigger mistake is raise/folding the flop, your hand is strong and has showdown value, if you are raising it's in an effort to get all the money in, not to "see where he's at".

[wheezer16 0]

I guess it depends on what "he played 33 aggressively" means. Was there a lot of raising pf or what? If he's overvaluing hands, then I'd probably call. I'd reraise pf to $250 and be willing to get it in if he's overaggressive. I think Zach and a few others that play HU would be better at answering this. I think the bigger mistake is raise/folding the flop, your hand is strong and has showdown value, if you are raising it's in an effort to get all the money in, not to "see where he's at".

I appreciate all of the feedback. With the 33 hand, he wasn't 'over-aggressive' so much as he over-called on the flop and turn. Ultimately, I didn't have a meaningful read on this guy and certainly didn't have a sense of his 3-bet or 4-bet range.I guess my original question related to whether or not my additional outs (inside straight draw, and non-nut flush draw) justified a loose call assuming there was a good chance that he was ahead.

[tskillz187 0]

I appreciate all of the feedback. With the 33 hand, he wasn't 'over-aggressive' so much as he over-called on the flop and turn. Ultimately, I didn't have a meaningful read on this guy and certainly didn't have a sense of his 3-bet or 4-bet range.I guess my original question related to whether or not my additional outs (inside straight draw, and non-nut flush draw) justified a loose call assuming there was a good chance that he was ahead.

Yeah, I mean I don't play HU but there are like 8-10 guys that do and are very good. I don't know what their basic early game strategy is, but I'd guess it's to play a little overly tight until they get some reads. So they'll have a better idea, but just from looking at it, I don't mind getting it in. You're only really hurting against overpairs that also have a club.

[Acid_Knight 2]

As someone said, if you're asking this question, then you almost certainly should not be playing 5/10 HU.Early on in the match, against someone who seems aggressive and capable of possibly making moves preflop, with TT, I'm just 4betting and calling a shove. If you're not ok getting it in for your stack, you DO NOT 4-BET this hand.As played, on the flop, you get it in here with a weird amount of equity against most players and it's probably not a mistake to get it in, but you are flipping a TON vs AcKc or AxQc or whatever. And you're often dominated by JJ+, with or without a club.If you had to do it over, I'd 4 bet to 265 preflop and then the hand plays itself.I have no idea why you're raising this flop if you're not instantly calling his shove.

[BaseJester 1]

As someone said, if you're asking this question, then you almost certainly should not be playing 5/10 HU.Early on in the match, against someone who seems aggressive and capable of possibly making moves preflop, with TT, I'm just 4betting and calling a shove. If you're not ok getting it in for your stack, you DO NOT 4-BET this hand.As played, on the flop, you get it in here with a weird amount of equity against most players and it's probably not a mistake to get it in, but you are flipping a TON vs AcKc or AxQc or whatever. And you're often dominated by JJ+, with or without a club.

AcKc has the hero killed, so I'm reading this as AcKx and AxKc.The hero is coin flipping against JJ+ without a club.

Board: 6c 7c 8cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	48.081%	  47.27% 	00.81% 			   468 			8.00   { QdQh }Hand 1: 	51.919%	  51.11% 	00.81% 			   506 			8.00   { TcTd }

[wheezer16 0]

As someone said, if you're asking this question, then you almost certainly should not be playing 5/10 HU.Early on in the match, against someone who seems aggressive and capable of possibly making moves preflop, with TT, I'm just 4betting and calling a shove. If you're not ok getting it in for your stack, you DO NOT 4-BET this hand.As played, on the flop, you get it in here with a weird amount of equity against most players and it's probably not a mistake to get it in, but you are flipping a TON vs AcKc or AxQc or whatever. And you're often dominated by JJ+, with or without a club.If you had to do it over, I'd 4 bet to 265 preflop and then the hand plays itself.I have no idea why you're raising this flop if you're not instantly calling his shove.

I agree that I shouldn't be playing 5/10 hu...I would definitely be on a small stakes table if I was planning on becoming a hu player/specialist, but that being said I do occasionally find myself playing hu on a full ring table (I think that the original post gives the wrong impression that I am doing hu training on a 5/10 table).I did call the shove..he had KK (no club)...a 9 on the river gave me the pot (sorry for no conversion, i don't have access to the HH right now).

[Acid_Knight 2]

AcKc has the hero killed, so I'm reading this as AcKx and AxKc.The hero is coin flipping against JJ+ without a club.

Board: 6c 7c 8cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	48.081%	  47.27% 	00.81% 			   468 			8.00   { QdQh }Hand 1: 	51.919%	  51.11% 	00.81% 			   506 			8.00   { TcTd }

You know I meant AK or AQ with one club.He's flipping vs that and vs red QQ. He's killed by black QQ though.

[Naismith 0]

AcKc has the hero killed...

I would assume the board comes some combination of...9c XX 9c8x Tx7x Tx6x TxTx 8xTx 7xTx 6xTx TxEDIT: EVEN MORE OUTS!8x 8x7x 7x6x 6x...at least half the time, so Acid was right about flipping against AcKc. I mean, look at all of those outs!

[wheezer16 0]

You know I meant AK or AQ with one club.He's flipping vs that and vs red QQ. He's killed by black QQ though.

Taking everything into account I don't think that I had any business calling his shove...a coin-flip (at best) for stacks generally doesn't appeal to me (edit: I suspect this thinking shows why I shouldn't be playing high stakes hu), and I guess I got caught up in this particular hand. If I knew that he was loose, then maybe.Is my flop raise really that bad if I plan on folding to a shove? In hindsight, I would be 4-betting pf and getting it all-in if necessary. But given the current scenario, folding to a flop bet seems weak. Calling doesn't help me either.

[Naismith 0]

Okay, as for the actual hand. Do not 4-bet and fold to a shove preflop. There's no shame in losing a buy in with TT. Just 4-bet, click the call button when he shoves and hit a set.As for the flop, I don't hate raising the flop, but you need to know what you're doing to a shove since he's going to shove a trajillion percent of the time. I just raise-call because no one ever has anything heads up and the percent of time he has an overpair + higher flush draw is offset by the amount already in the pot.

[wheezer16 0]

Okay, as for the actual hand. Do not 4-bet and fold to a shove preflop. There's no shame in losing a buy in with TT. Just 4-bet, click the call button when he shoves and hit a set.As for the flop, I don't hate raising the flop, but you need to know what you're doing to a shove since he's going to shove a trajillion percent of the time. I just raise-call because no one ever has anything heads up and the percent of time he has an overpair + higher flush draw is offset by the amount already in the pot.

Fair enough, thx.

[Naismith 0]

Is my flop raise really that bad if I plan on folding to a shove? In hindsight, I would be 4-betting pf and getting it all-in if necessary. But given the current scenario, folding to a flop bet seems weak. Calling doesn't help me either.

Raise-folding is pretty bad because you're going to get out-played every single time. He'll likely fold hands with little equity and shove every single hand in his range that has a big club or a pair. If you want to raise-fold, just call the flop and trust your ability to make the right decision to a turn bet based on previous hands and instinct and all that nonsense.

[BaseJester 1]

Just to be clear, I wasn't questioning any of your analysis AK, just looking to clarify some of the bits about the range.Hero is getting 2:1 to call the shove, so, yeah, he should call.

Board: 6c 7c 8cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	58.705%	  57.99% 	00.72% 			 21814 		  271.00   { JJ+, AcKc, AcQc, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AdKc, AhKc, AsKc, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AdQc, AhQc, AsQc }Hand 1: 	41.295%	  40.57% 	00.72% 			 15264 		  271.00   { TcTd }

[wheezer16 0]

Just to be clear, I wasn't questioning any of your analysis AK, just looking to clarify some of the bits about the range.Hero is getting 2:1 to call the shove, so, yeah, he should call.

Board: 6c 7c 8cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	58.705%	  57.99% 	00.72% 			 21814 		  271.00   { JJ+, AcKc, AcQc, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AdKc, AhKc, AsKc, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AdQc, AhQc, AsQc }Hand 1: 	41.295%	  40.57% 	00.72% 			 15264 		  271.00   { TcTd }

Thanks for the analysis.

[Zach6668 513]

Taking everything into account I don't think that I had any business calling his shove...a coin-flip (at best) for stacks generally doesn't appeal to me (edit: I suspect this thinking shows why I shouldn't be playing high stakes hu), and I guess I got caught up in this particular hand. If I knew that he was loose, then maybe.Is my flop raise really that bad if I plan on folding to a shove? In hindsight, I would be 4-betting pf and getting it all-in if necessary. But given the current scenario, folding to a flop bet seems weak. Calling doesn't help me either.

You understand that a coinflip is awesome when you're already getting odds on what is a monster pot, right?

[wheezer16 0]

You understand that a coinflip is awesome when you're already getting odds on what is a monster pot, right?

At the time I felt/hoped/believed that the odds were right to call, and I did. In analyzing things in this thread, I started to think that I must've been a huge dog to win (i.e. coinflip being the best case scenario). Seeing the stats/odds laid out it seems clear that the odds favour a call.